Line Combos: Build a lineup poll #9: 3RW

[Double-Shift Lasse]

The David Vyborny edition of the lineup poll:

So here is the (not) much-discussed lineup poll. Instead of Torts' slot machine line generator, we'll be voting for each spot on the roster, building each line one spot at a time. We started with 1LW, and will work our way through the forward lines and on to D pairs and starter and backup goalies.

This poll includes every forward reasonably expected to be available to the team whenever the season should start.

Vote for your choice for third line RW, and the winner will be slotted there and removed from subsequent polls. Sure, there are some nuances such a process doesn't allow for - there will be times when you can't vote for who you'd like at a spot because they've already been slotted somewhere else, or there's a combo you like that gets nixed along the way. You can alter, or not, your subsequent voting accordingly.

Here's to the continuation of a depressing exercise in futility.

Forward lines
Alexandre Texier - Pierre-Luc Dubois - Oliver Bjorkstrand
Nick Foligno - Max Domi - Cam Atkinson
Boone Jenner - Mikko Koivu - 3RW

Click to read more...

 

[stevo61]

This is where it gets tricky but Id go Grigorenko here.
Id maybe be open to seeing how Foudy-Grigs-Bemstrom look together but that could be scary for the right or wrong reasons and Grigorenko has shown no ability as an NHL center to this point

 

[koteka]

I want Bemstrom with Koivu so he has a great guy to learn from.

 

[The Wheelchair]

Going off the wall here and saying MacInnis. I would not have put Jenner and Koivu together (I wanted the third line to be Foudy-Jenner-Bemstrom) but since we appear to be going for a pure shutdown line, MacInnis's ranginess, skating, and defensive instincts give him the edge for me. Playing a scorer like Grigorenko or Bemstrom next to those two feels like a waste, especially considering those two guys don't really have the speed to create their own offense the way an Atkinson or Foudy might. And adding Nash or Stenlund to Jenner and Koivu would create maybe the slowest line in the NHL. The other option I thought about was Robinson, but I would prefer his aggressive forecheck creating goal-scoring opportunities for Bemstrom on the fourth line.

 

[Monk]

Going off the wall here and saying MacInnis. I would not have put Jenner and Koivu together (I wanted the third line to be Foudy-Jenner-Bemstrom) but since we appear to be going for a pure shutdown line, MacInnis's ranginess, skating, and defensive instincts give him the edge for me. Playing a scorer like Grigorenko or Bemstrom next to those two feels like a waste, especially considering those two guys don't really have the speed to create their own offense the way an Atkinson or Foudy might. And adding Nash or Stenlund to Jenner and Koivu would create maybe the slowest line in the NHL. The other option I thought about was Robinson, but I would prefer his aggressive forecheck creating goal-scoring opportunities for Bemstrom on the fourth line.

This does make sense. I could see changing my vote from Bemstrom to someone else. I just don't feel great sticking Bem on the 4th line, I wanted him on the 2nd.

 

[Viqsi]

I want Bemstrom with Koivu so he has a great guy to learn from.

That's my rationale as well. If Foudy had won #3C it'd be Grigs, but...

 

[The Wheelchair]

This does make sense. I could see changing my vote from Bemstrom to someone else. I just don't feel great sticking Bem on the 4th line, I wanted him on the 2nd.

Fourth line is just a number. I think the best way to approach this exercise is first to ask "what is this line going to be asked to do" and then "what combination of players best achieves that goal." For the first line, the answer is "score goals," and I think we all substantially agreed that Tex-PLD-Bjorkstrand was our best goal-scoring combination. The second line's purpose seems to be a balance of defense and offense, with three very solid two-way players providing a nice mix of speed, skill, and physicality. For the third line, we've got a big, physical, defensively responsible winger in Jenner, and a center in Koivu who at this stage of his career is still sound in his own end but tremendously limited offensively. That to me suggests that this is the line Torts will turn to late in a close game to put up a wall around the goalie, blocking shots and scrambling for loose pucks. I know we all think Bemstrom (or else Grigorenko) is the best player left on the board, but does he really further the goal of this line? Can you envision Torts putting him in that role? More to the point, is that the role you want him to play?

Personally, I want Bemstrom playing with guys with speed and ice vision, who will create chances he can finish. I don't think Jenner and Koivu are those guys. I think Robinson (or Foudy) and Grigorenko might be.

 

[Monk]

Fourth line is just a number. I think the best way to approach this exercise is first to ask "what is this line going to be asked to do" and then "what combination of players best achieves that goal." For the first line, the answer is "score goals," and I think we all substantially agreed that Tex-PLD-Bjorkstrand was our best goal-scoring combination. The second line's purpose seems to be a balance of defense and offense, with three very solid two-way players providing a nice mix of speed, skill, and physicality. For the third line, we've got a big, physical, defensively responsible winger in Jenner, and a center in Koivu who at this stage of his career is still sound in his own end but tremendously limited offensively. That to me suggests that this is the line Torts will turn to late in a close game to put up a wall around the goalie, blocking shots and scrambling for loose pucks. I know we all think Bemstrom (or else Grigorenko) is the best player left on the board, but does he really further the goal of this line? Can you envision Torts putting him in that role? More to the point, is that the role you want him to play?

Personally, I want Bemstrom playing with guys with speed and ice vision, who will create chances he can finish. I don't think Jenner and Koivu are those guys. I think Robinson (or Foudy) and Grigorenko might be.

I agree with the sentiment - 4th line is just a lot easier to type than "the line the gets the fewest minutes and number of opportunities to prove themselves, especially offensively." Not the line best suited for Bemstrom IMO.

 

[DarkandStormy]

The Geoff Sanderson edition of the lineup poll:

The Artemi Panarin edition?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

The Artemi Panarin edition?

lessons in forgetting to change the cut and paste

 

[DarkandStormy]

Hopefully Foudy and/or Grigorenko surprise, otherwise this bottom six is going to be...uhhhh....slow and/or bad.

I get why people are voting Bemstrom, but playing him with Jenner and Koivu? This is why I don't like Koivu at the 3C and hope he gets bumped down to the 4th line.

 

[EspenK]

I think we're beginning to see a problem here. Namely not doing what Wheelchair suggested. Cam is probably better suited to play on the third line as it has developed while Bemstrom is probably better suited for the 2nd line although at this point in their respective careers Cam is a better overall player imo. Personally I voted for Grigs here and see Bemstrom as the 13th F or in Cleveland.

 

[Monk]

lessons in forgetting to change the cut and paste

You left another easter egg of mine in there, meant to be a one time joke, I swear

 

[rotsbu]

Hopefully Foudy and/or Grigorenko surprise, otherwise this bottom six is going to be...uhhhh....slow and/or bad.

I get why people are voting Bemstrom, but playing him with Jenner and Koivu? This is why I don't like Koivu at the 3C and hope he gets bumped down to the 4th line.

This is where I am. With Koivu now our chosen 3C, I don't know who to put at RW on this line.

 

[Monk]

This is where I am. With Koivu now our chosen 3C, I don't know who to put at RW on this line.

Same. I was surprised Koivu won the 3C vote as decisively as he did. I hope he ends up the 4C in real life. I might change my vote here and try to vote for the 4th line as more of a 3rd line in concept... not that it'll make much difference.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

You left another easter egg of mine in there, meant to be a one time joke, I swear

Yes but that one I left in on purpose!

 

[The Wheelchair]

I agree with the sentiment - 4th line is just a lot easier to type than "the line the gets the fewest minutes and number of opportunities to prove themselves, especially offensively." Not the line best suited for Bemstrom IMO.

Sure—we all want Bemstrom to get as many offensive opportunities as possible. That's where he's strongest, and that's the role he's going to need to play in the future. I just don't think he'll get more offensive opportunities on the "third" line with Jenner and Koivu than he will on the "fourth" line with Robinson and Grigorenko. Torts loves to deploy his lines situationally, and a Jenner-Koivu-??? line is just screaming "defensive zone starts against opposing top lines."

I also agree that Atkinson is really the best fit here—he's responsible defensively, and his speed and instincts make him better at turning defense into offense than anyone else on the roster. But the nature of the exercise is such that we can't vote for Atkinson. So the question is, do we put Bemstrom on a line that doesn't suit his playstyle but where he might get more minutes, or do we put him on a line with players who complement his skillset, but that might only get two shifts in the third period in many games? I submit that the latter is preferable, at least at this stage of Bemstrom's career. I'd also argue that the same reasoning applies to Grigorenko as well.

 

[majormajor]

I'm going to try and avoid using 3rd and 4th here, and stick with "easy minutes bottom six" and "hard minutes bottom six".

This is where it gets tricky but Id go Grigorenko here.
Id maybe be open to seeing how Foudy-Grigs-Bemstrom look together but that could be scary for the right or wrong reasons and Grigorenko has shown no ability as an NHL center to this point

That was my favorite combination for the easy minutes line, though like you I don't know how Grigorenko would do back at center.

I want Bemstrom with Koivu so he has a great guy to learn from.

Are you going to teach him to be a pure shutdown player? I don't think Bemstrom's underlying talents point in that direction.

Going off the wall here and saying MacInnis. I would not have put Jenner and Koivu together (I wanted the third line to be Foudy-Jenner-Bemstrom) but since we appear to be going for a pure shutdown line, MacInnis's ranginess, skating, and defensive instincts give him the edge for me. Playing a scorer like Grigorenko or Bemstrom next to those two feels like a waste, especially considering those two guys don't really have the speed to create their own offense the way an Atkinson or Foudy might. And adding Nash or Stenlund to Jenner and Koivu would create maybe the slowest line in the NHL. The other option I thought about was Robinson, but I would prefer his aggressive forecheck creating goal-scoring opportunities for Bemstrom on the fourth line.

MacInnis fits, for sure. I think Robinson does the same thing only even faster, which we know Jenner and Koivu need. And I don't think Robinson adds much more to the offense, both of those guys are basically zeros in the offensive department.

I agree with the sentiment - 4th line is just a lot easier to type than "the line the gets the fewest minutes and number of opportunities to prove themselves, especially offensively." Not the line best suited for Bemstrom IMO.

I agree with Wheelchair that Bemstrom will get more offensive opportunities playing on the easier minutes line. We have the talent to roll four lines, and I really hope Torts does. If you go back to our big year in 2016-17, the Hartnell-Sedlak-Gagner 4th line had easier scoring roles than Calvert-Karlsson-Anderson.

 

[The Wheelchair]

MacInnis fits, for sure. I think Robinson does the same thing only even faster, which we know Jenner and Koivu need. And I don't think Robinson adds much more to the offense, both of those guys are basically zeros in the offensive department.

I really like MacInnis's puck retrieval skills in the defensive end—he's a really good skater, and his sheer length comes in handy in that area as well. Robinson is faster and maybe gives the shutdown line a few more breakaways, though. It doesn't seem like people are too hot on MacInnis here, though, so in case others are thinking of doing the same, I switched to Robinson.

 

[stevo61]

I really like MacInnis's puck retrieval skills in the defensive end—he's a really good skater, and his sheer length comes in handy in that area as well. Robinson is faster and maybe gives the shutdown line a few more breakaways, though. It doesn't seem like people are too hot on MacInnis here, though, so in case others are thinking of doing the same, I switched to Robinson.

I like MacInnis and would call him up over Stenlund in most situations but I also dont see him as someone pushing a regular out of the lineup

 

[MoeBartoli]

I went with Bemstrom simply because I know so little about Grigorenko and already voted for for Foligno as 2LW. So absent adding a top LW, maybe I’m left with:
Tex-Dubois-Bjork
Capt-Max-Cam
Foudy-Koivu/Nash-Bemstrom
Boone-Koivu/Nash-Robinson

This contradicts my 3LW slotting of Boone, but I like this 4th line. The question is does Grigorenko or one of the other suspects play their way into starting ice time on the 3rd line.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Nash is the guy who's tricky. He's clearly an NHL player. He doesn't not belong... somewhere. But I'm having trouble figuring where I like him more than someone else from this group.

I went with Robinson here (and I voted first in this poll). I agree with Wheelchair above, either Robo or MacInnis in this slot given the linemates we've chosen.

 

[Monk]

I'm going to try and avoid using 3rd and 4th here, and stick with "easy minutes bottom six" and "hard minutes bottom six".



That was my favorite combination for the easy minutes line, though like you I don't know how Grigorenko would do back at center.



Are you going to teach him to be a pure shutdown player? I don't think Bemstrom's underlying talents point in that direction.



MacInnis fits, for sure. I think Robinson does the same thing only even faster, which we know Jenner and Koivu need. And I don't think Robinson adds much more to the offense, both of those guys are basically zeros in the offensive department.



I agree with Wheelchair that Bemstrom will get more offensive opportunities playing on the easier minutes line. We have the talent to roll four lines, and I really hope Torts does. If you go back to our big year in 2016-17, the Hartnell-Sedlak-Gagner 4th line had easier scoring roles than Calvert-Karlsson-Anderson.

I agree with you and wheelchair, too, I think. I was trying to not get trapped in the line number stereotypes but struggling to talk about the lines without identifying them as their numbers. If he can get enough ice time playing on the line we're voting for next, then great! But I'm skeptical.

 

[LetsGOJackets!!]

start over and look at the pairs Foudy Domi Benstrom and Foligno Jenner Atkinson. something like that seems to put players together that have some chemistry, or speed and potential.

Maybe Grigorenko, Robinson, McGinnis, or Stenlund earn their way to more playing time but it would seem like our team is the island of misfit toys.

 

[Cowumbus]

start over and look at the pairs Foudy Domi Benstrom and Foligno Jenner Atkinson. something like that seems to put players together that have some chemistry, or speed and potential.

Maybe Grigorenko, Robinson, McGinnis, or Stenlund earn their way to more playing time but it would seem like our team is the island of misfit toys.

Texier Dubois Bjorkstrand
Foudy Domi Bemstrom
Foligno Jenner Atkinson
Nash Koivu Grigorenko