Proposal: Buffalo/Tampa Bay

[Gabrielor]

Bolded - I disagree. There's a huge difference between Byram & Cernak. We've only just traded for Byram and that trade took a lifetime in coming. Adams isn't trading him so soon after acquiring him. He should be working on extending him.

Again - I'm not saying I wouldn't want Cirelli or that he wouldn't be valuable to this team. And it doesn't matter if i call him a 'third line' C or you call him a 'defensive matchup' C - we both know what type of player he is & those players do not have the value of top pairing defenseman - which Byram certainly is. Byram is also four years younger than Cirelli. Their trade value is not even close.

Our team has holes to fill - but it's really only the 'bottom third' of the roster that needs overhauling. And we have an over abundance of futures to make that happen without needing to trade away core pieces.

If TB decided to 're-tool' this offseason & Cirelli was available - I'd offer one of our forward prospects not currently in the NHL. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't get a better offer than that from any other team & if they were hell bent on getting a defenseman, they would need to make a follow up trade.

Adding Cernak doesn't do a huge amount for me. Maybe I'd add a Cernak/Samuelsson swap into the deal - but that is only because of Samuelsson's complete inability to stay healthy.

That's probably why I'm comfortable in here engaging with the Tampa Bay fans. I'm not super concerned with 'losing the trade by value'. I'm trying to build a Sabres roster to make and then compete in the playoffs.

Cirelli and Cernak both played big roles as catalysts to the battle on the current dynasty. I'm game to overpay for that.

 

[JTBF81]

On the Sabres Byram is a first pair D while Cirelli would be 3C behind Thompson & Cozens.

I've already said above that valuable assets should be in play. Such as our glut of offensively focused forward prospects who can't all possibly make the roster, or this year's R1 pick. But we shouldn't be trading core pieces like Byram or Power.

Maybe so with Byram in Buffalo, but his value is more that of a 2nd pair dman. In any case, Tampa shoildn't be moving Cirelli for offensive prospects that might pan out and also don't help Tampa now. If Tampa makes him available, it needs to be a hockey trade for a player that helps them where they need it. Byram wouldn't even be my top target anyway, but since Cirelli to Buffalo was brought up, that would be the only likely move from Tampa's perspective.

 

[Aoko]

Yeah I think most Sabres fans are a hard no on this I’m not sure why he was hitting the bottle so early.

we have a sub section of fans who want Power out badly even though he’s 21. They’re shocked he’s not fully developed as a player and also not Chris Pronger.

I'd be very interested to know what the price for Owen Power by himself would be for Tampa. But I also am of the personal opinion that Buffalo shouldn't move him yet. Not unless he asked for a trade.

 

[tsujimoto74]

I'd be very interested to know what the price for Owen Power by himself would be for Tampa. But I also am of the personal opinion that Buffalo shouldn't move him yet. Not unless he asked for a trade.

Not gonna happen.

 

[Faceboner]

What about some combo of;

Buffalo pieces:
Jokhiharju
Krebs
Samuelsson
2024 1st
2024 2nd
Rosèn


Tampa pieces:
Cernak
Cirelli


Just saying to make a deal from the pieces listed above

2024 1st+joki+kiskakov+2026 2nd for both

 

[Faceboner]

Power isn't a bona-fide number 1 dman in his 2nd year let's trade him, yeah that seems like a good effing idea right to a team in our own division nonetheless, smart, real smart. I like Cermak and cirelli but that's a number 4 rhd who is getting older and cirelli is an over paid mid 6 C with average defense metrics who is a massive improvement at 3c but I am not trading power for both of them the main piece back will be 11th overall along with a guy like joki and other adds.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

That's probably why I'm comfortable in here engaging with the Tampa Bay fans. I'm not super concerned with 'losing the trade by value'. I'm trying to build a Sabres roster to make and then compete in the playoffs.

Cirelli and Cernak both played big roles as catalysts to the battle on the current dynasty. I'm game to overpay for that.

We aren't making our team better by trading away key pieces like Byram. By doing that we'd just be blowing even bigger holes open for the sake of filling smaller ones.

We'll make our team better by trading our abundance of futures. If TB fans don't want those futures - fine. There will be plenty of other teams out there who will.

 

[Beerz]

We aren't making our team better by trading away key pieces like Byram. By doing that we'd just be blowing even bigger holes open for the sake of filling smaller ones.

We'll make our team better by trading our abundance of futures. If TB fans don't want those futures - fine. There will be plenty of other teams out there who will.

To be fair.. we don't even know what we have in Byram. 20 games isn't enough for me to make that determination. He has the name recognition but not really much else to show.

 

[Gabrielor]

We aren't making our team better by trading away key pieces like Byram. By doing that we'd just be blowing even bigger holes open for the sake of filling smaller ones.

We'll make our team better by trading our abundance of futures. If TB fans don't want those futures - fine. There will be plenty of other teams out there who will.

You don't know that yet, you're just hoping that because of who was traded for him.


As to the second point, Tampa fans have spoken on the price, and it wasn't egregious either. I don't know what to tell you.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

Power isn't a bona-fide number 1 dman in his 2nd year let's trade him, yeah that seems like a good effing idea right to a team in our own division nonetheless, smart, real smart. I like Cermak and cirelli but that's a number 4 rhd who is getting older and cirelli is an over paid mid 6 C with average defense metrics who is a massive improvement at 3c but I am not trading power for both of them the main piece back will be 11th overall along with a guy like joki and other adds.

Cernak is 26, he is basically dead at this point.

 

[More 2004]

If I am JBB, Power would be up there on the targets list. What would it realistically take Buffalo fans?

 

[Rowley Birkin]

To be fair.. we don't even know what we have in Byram. 20 games isn't enough for me to make that determination. He has the name recognition but not really much else to show.

He was clearly targeted by Adams & wasn't some guy Colorado threw into the trade - we had needed to make a large 'F for D' hockey trade for a long time & frankly i was surprised we were able to get him straight up for Mittelstadt.

Since being acquired he's been used as Dahlin's partner, playing circa 20 mins/night.

It should be clear what the intended path is for him.

Of course we don't know exactly what we have yet. That is enough reason alone not to trade him away so soon after acquiring him & why it won't happen!

If I am JBB, Power would be up there on the targets list. What would it realistically take Buffalo fans?

Nothing.

Dahlin, Power, Byram are all part of the future core & none of them will be traded. We have a million other valuable trade chips which can be cashed in instead.

 

[tsujimoto74]

If I am JBB, Power would be up there on the targets list. What would it realistically take Buffalo fans?

Realistically the only way the Sabres might actually consider moving him is if there’s an elite/superstar type player available who’s still young and has term/team control. So, not happening.

 

[MOGlLNY]

To be fair.. we don't even know what we have in Byram. 20 games isn't enough for me to make that determination. He has the name recognition but not really much else to show.

Yeah I don’t get why he keeps talking like Byram is a guaranteed stud. I’d definitely consider moving him for the right piece, but it’s very doubtful the Sabres do that/

 

[Djp]

Cernak is 26, he is basically dead at this point.

Hes likely a sinking anchor before that contract ends

 

[Beerz]

He was clearly targeted by Adams & wasn't some guy Colorado threw into the trade - we had needed to make a large 'F for D' hockey trade for a long time & frankly i was surprised we were able to get him straight up for Mittelstadt.

Since being acquired he's been used as Dahlin's partner, playing circa 20 mins/night.

It should be clear what the intended path is for him.

Of course we don't know exactly what we have yet. That is enough reason alone not to trade him away so soon after acquiring him & why it won't happen!


Nothing.

Dahlin, Power, Byram are all part of the future core & none of them will be traded. We have a million other valuable trade chips which can be cashed in instead.

He started out with Dahlin and played really well. Was aggressive and confident.. cocky even. Then they had the Edmonton game where everyone got lit up.. and was demoted down with Power.. that pairing sucked too so Power went up with Dahlin and Byram went with Joker.. and they were really really bad. I wish Granato would of left him with Dahlin to see more because once he was yanked from Dahlin pairing he lost all his confidence.

Even tho I hated the Mitts for Byram trade I do like Byram and have high hopes for him but I have no problem including him or Power in a trade to make the team better.

 

[Faceboner]

Cernak is 26, he is basically dead at this point.

O thought he was 32 but still point stands power value wise is >>> than cernak

Yeah I don’t get why he keeps talking like Byram is a guaranteed stud. I’d definitely consider moving him for the right piece, but it’s very doubtful the Sabres do that/

The right piece ain't cernak or cirelli

 

[Rowley Birkin]

He started out with Dahlin and played really well. Was aggressive and confident.. cocky even. Then they had the Edmonton game where everyone got lit up.. and was demoted down with Power.. that pairing sucked too so Power went up with Dahlin and Byram went with Joker.. and they were really really bad. I wish Granato would of left him with Dahlin to see more because once he was yanked from Dahlin pairing he lost all his confidence.

Even tho I hated the Mitts for Byram trade I do like Byram and have high hopes for him but I have no problem including him or Power in a trade to make the team better.

Right. But any trade which involves either of those two being traded away without a better defenceman coming back, does not make this team better.

Regarding pairings - assuming everyone is healthy going into next season i think you have to go with Byram/Dahlin & Power/Samuelsson. Don't over think it.

 

[allsilverdreams]

This is the reason why they made Crack illegal

 

[JTBF81]

Pretty clear no trade would happen here. Tampa shouldn't be moving Cernak at all, and Cirelli shouldn't be moved unless Tampa is getting a top 4 RD out of it, one way or the other.

 

[Rschmitz]

Pretty clear no trade would happen here. Tampa shouldn't be moving Cernak at all, and Cirelli shouldn't be moved unless Tampa is getting a top 4 RD out of it, one way or the other.

Taking futures is ok for a retool

 

[JTBF81]

Taking futures is ok for a retool

Tampa isn't re-tooling by losing a key piece like Cirelli for maybe futures, and none of the futures that have been offered should be of much interest. Unless Cirelli returns a top 4 RD that helps now, either a player or with assets that guarantee another player Tampa needs and wants, there is no way he should be available.

 

[Rschmitz]

Tampa isn't re-tooling by losing a key piece like Cirelli for maybe futures, and none of the futures that have been offered should be of much interest. Unless Cirelli returns a top 4 RD that helps now, either a player or with assets that guarantee another player Tampa needs and wants, there is no way he should be available.

This is how teams retool though, it's currency to bring to another deal. Vancouver did it last year when they flipped Horvat to the Islanders for a 1st and then traded that pick to Detroit for Hronek. This happens less frequently than trading directly with another team, but still happens quite a bit. Flipping Downie that eventually became a 1st and Vasy? Trading Connolly for a couple of seconds and then flipping picks for Coburn, etc.

If you're too rigid with whom you trade with because you want an ideal scenario where both teams need something from one another, a trade is way less likely to get done and all of the creative maneuvers a GM could have done will have passed by.

Plus the cap space created by trading Cirelli opens the door for us to sign a guy like DeMelo this offseason, which effectively accomplishes the same thing with the added benefit of restocking our pipeline or having an asset on hand for a future trade.

 

[JTBF81]

This is how teams retool though, it's currency to bring to another deal. Vancouver did it last year when they flipped Horvat to the Islanders for a 1st and then traded that pick to Detroit for Hronek. This happens less frequently than trading directly with another team, but still happens quite a bit. Flipping Downie that eventually became a 1st and Vasy? Trading Connolly for a couple of seconds and then flipping picks for Coburn, etc.

If you're too rigid with whom you trade with because you want an ideal scenario where both teams need something from one another, a trade is way less likely to get done and all of the creative maneuvers a GM could have done will have passed by.

Plus the cap space created by trading Cirelli opens the door for us to sign a guy like DeMelo this offseason, which effectively accomplishes the same thing with the added benefit of restocking our pipeline or having an asset on hand for a future trade.

Tampa can sign DeMelo(if he even reaches ufa) without losing a valuable piece like Cirelli. Trading guys with less cap hit contracts that aren't integral(Jeannot, Sheary, Perbix) provides enough room for most of what Tampa needs. There's 0 guarantees that trading Cirelli for a pick+prospect gets them who they need, and then they have to replace Cirelli as well in the top 6. Aside from Cirelli for Byram, there hasn't been a single realistic deal in this thread that JBB should remotely consider, especially with a team in the division.

 

[Rschmitz]

Tampa can sign DeMelo(if he even reaches ufa) without losing a valuable piece like Cirelli. Trading guys with less cap hit contracts that aren't integral(Jeannot, Sheary, Perbix) provides enough room for most of what Tampa needs. There's 0 guarantees that trading Cirelli for a pick+prospect gets them who they need, and then they have to replace Cirelli as well in the top 6. Aside from Cirelli for Byram, there hasn't been a single realistic deal in this thread that JBB should remotely consider, especially with a team in the division.

Ok so your angle is JBB can trade a bunch of lesser pieces. Maybe? I don't think we can sacrifice enough pawns off the board to make that transaction work