Speculation: Brodie or Hamonic?

[super6646]

[mod]
Ummm... no.

8/9 of the last cup winners were above 50% possession teams, with the only exception being the 2018 caps. Both the Chicago blackhawks and LA kings were dominant possession teams in the first half of the decade. They ended up winning 5/6 cups awarded from 2010-2015. I wouldn’t consider possession the be all and end all, but it absolutely has its uses.

 

[Lunatik]

Ummm... no.

8/9 of the last cup winners were above 50% possession teams, with the only exception being the 2018 caps. Both the Chicago blackhawks and LA kings were dominant possession teams in the first half of the decade. They ended up winning 5/6 cups awarded from 2010-2015. I wouldn’t consider possession the be all and end all, but it absolutely has its uses.

and 9/9 outscored their opponent, don't see me going on about goal differential

 

[super6646]

and 9/9 outscored their opponent, don't see me going on about goal differential

If that's how you want to see it, then fair enough. But if you think of corsi or whatever else as just +- of shots, why did those same stats predict a decline in the 2014-15 Flames, or the 2013-14 avs, or the 2016-17 senators, ect. If you looked at just base stats, those teams were all supposedly pretty solid... and then they weren't. Hockey is a sport with a ton of random variation, but in time things will regress to the mean. Base stats can't measure that all that effectively.

There is always going to be outliers though (2017-18 Flames for example, though there were other factors that I think led to that horrific season imo), and I will concede that hockey analytics is still overall pretty primitive (at least in the public sphere) and does have its limits. But to dismiss entirely as useless seems a bit extreme.

 

[Lunatik]

If that's how you want to see it, then fair enough. But if you think of corsi or whatever else as just +- of shots, why did those same stats predict a decline in the 2014-15 Flames, or the 2013-14 avs, or the 2016-17 senators, ect. If you looked at just base stats, those teams were all supposedly pretty solid... and then they weren't. Hockey is a sport with a ton of random variation, but in time things will regress to the mean. Base stats can't measure that all that effectively.

There is always going to be outliers though (2017-18 Flames for example, though there were other factors that I think led to that horrific season imo), and I will concede that hockey analytics is still overall pretty primitive (at least in the public sphere) and does have its limits. But to dismiss entirely as useless seems a bit extreme.

If I think Corsi is +/- for shots? Do you not know what Corsi is? It is literally Shots For vs Shots Against at ES, the only difference is they show it as a percentage rather than a plus or minus.

 

[Rubi]

I think we keep both as we would have a hole on RD if either one went... unless we got a decent RD back which I doubt would happen in a trade.
But, push come to shove, if I had to choose to keep one or the other I'd keep Hammer.

 

[DFF]

Whoever can return a good cheaper player is gone

 

[FerklundCGY]

If I think Corsi is +/- for shots? Do you not know what Corsi is? It is literally Shots For vs Shots Against at ES, the only difference is they show it as a percentage rather than a plus or minus.

Seems life you dont really know what it is either...

Corsi is Shot Attempts For vs Shot Attempts Against. That includes shots on net, missed shots, and blocked shots. Not just shots as you suggest.

 

[Lunatik]

Seems life you dont really know what it is either...

Corsi is Shot Attempts For vs Shot Attempts Against. That includes shots on net, missed shots, and blocked shots. Not just shots as you suggest.

Ok, I was wrong I thought that was Fenwick but I guess that one is just unblocked attempts. Doesn't change the wild misuse of the stat.

 

[Fig]

 

[GumbyCan2]

[mod]
Ummm... no.

8/9 of the last cup winners were above 50% possession teams, with the only exception being the 2018 caps. Both the Chicago blackhawks and LA kings were dominant possession teams in the first half of the decade. They ended up winning 5/6 cups awarded from 2010-2015. I wouldn’t consider possession the be all and end all, but it absolutely has its uses.

Just like f/o win %. Most SC finalists, winning teams have high(er) f/o wins %.
But there is the odd outlier to this. Can depend on how teams are coached to defend and/or attack off the face-off draw, both when your team wins the draw, and when it loses them but then out-positions opposition and wins the puck back. Not the most important stat per se...but has its uses for success.