Breaking Down How This Leafs Team was Formed

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
So yeah, Kessel was traded. So was Clarkson before last season's trade deadline. So was Franson, last season's points leader on D. So was Santorelli, Winnik, etc. For all intents and purposes, basically 1/2 of last year's team is gone, along with its questionable coaching and management.

Along with them went any expectations that this season's Leafs team was going to do any better than a chance at a top lottery pick amongst the vast majority of Leafs fans and Babcock dropped the hammer with "There will be pain".

But from the draft and obtaining Babcock onward, there were a very select few of us that saw the possibility of a different outcome, despite being the scorn of Leafs Nation when we proclaimed that this will be an improved team over last year.

Technically, they aren't... yet. The Leafs in their first 20 games of last season went 10-8-2 with a few thrown jerseys. This season they are 7-9-4, still looking northward at a playoff spot, but no thrown jerseys yet, so that's good.

A dismal October was the stuff that tank fans dreams were made of, no Kessel, no goals and that sort of thing. So us GO LEAFS GO, chest beating, pom-pom waving BeLeafers that felt the Leafs had the makings of a quality team this season sat quietly and bided our time. Then the page of the calendar turned to November.

And the wins started mounting. And the offence started generating (without Kessel). And the goaltending improved. Boy did it ever. It improved in conjunction with the work ethic of the team (well one of our tenders did, anyway). Which brings me back to the team.

The TEAM. The CULTURE. The WORK ETHIC and yes the SYSTEM.

The Babcock effect is REAL and those of us that weren't played like fiddles when Babcock said "there will be pain", knew this. We knew he was just appeasing the masses and setting them up so he could be left alone, get to work and slowly start to produce results. Except it wasn't that slowly and the pain didn't last very long. But how? HOW? This isn't a team fit for the NHL, its filled with players from a lingering horrid culture and other team's throwaways. Let's look at that.

The Returnees

Draw out the poison and work with what remains. All are now equally accountable and management felt they could get Babcock to successfully work with what remained. Its that simple. These people liked being Leafs above all else, even "untradeable" Captain Phaneuf, who in his new role turned out to be "good people" after all as Babcock likes to say. Why are most of them starting to succeed better than last year you ask? They are all playing roles more suitable to their skill-set and/or talent ceiling. Which is starting to work out just fine and is really helping the trade value of those that won't remain Leafs beyond this season and helping to better develop and improve those that will.

The Newbees

Okay, so here's where things get really interesting. How does management form a winning culture when rebuilding to create a safe environment for the prospects to come up into without dipping into your own well of young talent? How do you find available players from around the NHL capable of such a task? This is the not so well kept secret that went over the heads of so many of Leafs Nation that just held onto the notion of "There willl be pain" so they missed what Shannyco was doing. And they dismissed an even more important offseason quote. They most important one in fact. They did what they said they were going to do. They created "A team that plays for the logo on the front, not the name on the back." They brought players home.

They Kessel trade brought us Harrington, a Kingston, ON born player and a product of Hunter's London Knights, as well a Spaling of Palmerston, ON and a former Kitchener Ranger.
They add Mississauga native Matthias, signing him as a cheap UFA and former Belleville Bull.
They give their own former first rounder and Mississauga native Brad Boyes a PTO and he earns a contract.
And they re-sign Daniel Winnik of Toronto to a two year term after his trade deadline rental was up in Pittsburgh.

So they may only have had Reimer, Komarov, Kadri and Rielly returning in the lineup that are Leafs drafted players, but when you add all those new, local homegrown players in the mix, as well as Toronto born Corrado once he finally gets his chance to suit up for his first game.

That's a lot of new "good people" that bleed true blue.

GO LEAFS GO!!!
 

Leaf Lander

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Dec 31, 2002
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Can't wait till the games mean something and more talented teams. Will compete hard and pounce all over this rag tag squad of cast offs. Bringing them and leaf fans back to reality.

The goal should always be win a cup not make the playoffs

You can't s A cup without higher tier players

The only player who. Could be a high end player is Rielly.

Let's hope we go? A tail spin soon. So the real pain of mediocrity doesn't set in for us leaf fans who care about cups

Babs at bit care he has a cup and 50 million fro the Leafs
 

Ovate

Registered User
Dec 17, 2014
4,105
56
Toronto
The Leafs were not a good team in 2012-2013. The Avalanche were not a good team in 2013-2014. The Flames were not a good team in 2014-2015.

They succeeded through unsustainable goaltending and shooting percentages. Exactly what the Leafs are doing now.

The Leafs have been outshot in 9 out of 11 games in December, often by 10+ shots. We are succeeding on the back of unsustainble goaltending.

We will do better than we did in October. But we will be considerably worse than our 6-3-2 record this month.
 

Stigma

Registered User
May 24, 2015
3,160
2,370
Mississauga
So yeah, Kessel was traded. So was Clarkson before last season's trade deadline. So was Franson, last season's points leader on D. So was Santorelli, Winnik, etc. For all intents and purposes, basically 1/2 of last year's team is gone, along with its questionable coaching and management.

Along with them went any expectations that this season's Leafs team was going to do any better than a chance at a top lottery pick amongst the vast majority of Leafs fans and Babcock dropped the hammer with "There will be pain".

But from the draft and obtaining Babcock onward, there were a very select few of us that saw the possibility of a different outcome, despite being the scorn of Leafs Nation when we proclaimed that this will be an improved team over last year.

Technically, they aren't... yet. The Leafs in their first 20 games of last season went 10-8-2 with a few thrown jerseys. This season they are 7-9-4, still looking northward at a playoff spot, but no thrown jerseys yet, so that's good.

A dismal October was the stuff that tank fans dreams were made of, no Kessel, no goals and that sort of thing. So us GO LEAFS GO, chest beating, pom-pom waving BeLeafers that felt the Leafs had the makings of a quality team this season sat quietly and bided our time. Then the page of the calendar turned to November.

And the wins started mounting. And the offence started generating (without Kessel). And the goaltending improved. Boy did it ever. It improved in conjunction with the work ethic of the team (well one of our tenders did, anyway). Which brings me back to the team.

The TEAM. The CULTURE. The WORK ETHIC and yes the SYSTEM.

The Babcock effect is REAL and those of us that weren't played like fiddles when Babcock said "there will be pain", knew this. We knew he was just appeasing the masses and setting them up so he could be left alone, get to work and slowly start to produce results. Except it wasn't that slowly and the pain didn't last very long. But how? HOW? This isn't a team fit for the NHL, its filled with players from a lingering horrid culture and other team's throwaways. Let's look at that.

The Returnees

Draw out the poison and work with what remains. All are now equally accountable and management felt they could get Babcock to successfully work with what remained. Its that simple. These people liked being Leafs above all else, even "untradeable" Captain Phaneuf, who in his new role turned out to be "good people" after all as Babcock likes to say. Why are most of them starting to succeed better than last year you ask? They are all playing roles more suitable to their skill-set and/or talent ceiling. Which is starting to work out just fine and is really helping the trade value of those that won't remain Leafs beyond this season and helping to better develop and improve those that will.

The Newbees

Okay, so here's where things get really interesting. How does management form a winning culture when rebuilding to create a safe environment for the prospects to come up into without dipping into your own well of young talent? How do you find available players from around the NHL capable of such a task? This is the not so well kept secret that went over the heads of so many of Leafs Nation that just held onto the notion of "There willl be pain" so they missed what Shannyco was doing. And they dismissed an even more important offseason quote. They most important one in fact. They did what they said they were going to do. They created "A team that plays for the logo on the front, not the name on the back." They brought players home.

They Kessel trade brought us Harrington, a Kingston, ON born player and a product of Hunter's London Knights, as well a Spaling of Palmerston, ON and a former Kitchener Ranger.
They add Mississauga native Matthias, signing him as a cheap UFA and former Belleville Bull.
They give their own former first rounder and Mississauga native Brad Boyes a PTO and he earns a contract.
And they re-sign Daniel Winnik of Toronto to a two year term after his trade deadline rental was up in Pittsburgh.

So they may only have had Reimer, Komarov, Kadri and Rielly returning in the lineup that are Leafs drafted players, but when you add all those new, local homegrown players in the mix, as well as Toronto born Corrado once he finally gets his chance to suit up for his first game.

That's a lot of new "good people" that bleed true blue.

GO LEAFS GO!!!

Great post! I also think that we have way more than what we think we have and any arbitrary rebuild schedule (5 years, for example) is just that, arbitrary. Each individual team's case is very different from another's. None of us really know when the team is going to get really good, but I like the progress we've seen so far.
 

Leaf Lander

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There playing a system of hockey that allows mediocre players to have a job in the NHL.

Who cares about a true rebuild. Drafting 9-15 has worked out for us so welll over the past 10 yrs. Sure other teams have picked good players there so why can't we. "Barf"

You wonder why the rest of the league and the league itself sees leaf fans with dunce caps on.

This team won't win. In the playoffs and we will never win a cup without drafting in the top 3 in the NHL draft. It's a deep year for this yrs draft. I'd rather be picking top 4 in this class

Celibrate the nothing players all you want for there meaningless wins in November. When the time comes to play meaningful. Games vs players with elite skill we will loose
Let's just hope that occurs sooner rather then. Later

Don't give me we need to win for the. Fans that pay all that money to attend the games. They haven't missed any games in the last 10 yrs while our team lost.
So dont feel sorry for those fans . Most of them have greater lives then you and I.

By not loosing were. Continuing the pain of mediocrity for even longer.

Other then Marner and Nylander we don't have any impact players coming along. Every win just sickens me out.

Loose Leafs loose for 3 more yrs so we can get what we deserve players who can deliver us a cup
 

nsleaf

Registered User
Oct 21, 2009
4,074
1,454
Can't wait till the games mean something and more talented teams. Will compete hard and pounce all over this rag tag squad of cast offs. Bringing them and leaf fans back to reality.

The goal should always be win a cup not make the playoffs

You can't s A cup without higher tier players

The only player who. Could be a high end player is Rielly.

Let's hope we go? A tail spin soon. So the real pain of mediocrity doesn't set in for us leaf fans who care about cups

Babs at bit care he has a cup and 50 million fro the Leafs

Well you must make the playoffs in order to win the cup.
The rest of your post is difficult to read and understand. :help:
 

nsleaf

Registered User
Oct 21, 2009
4,074
1,454
There playing a system of hockey that allows mediocre players to have a job in the NHL.

Who cares about a true rebuild. Drafting 9-15 has worked out for us so welll over the past 10 yrs. Sure other teams have picked good players there so why can't we. "Barf"

You wonder why the rest of the league and the league itself sees leaf fans with dunce caps on.

This team won't win. In the playoffs and we will never win a cup without drafting in the top 3 in the NHL draft. It's a deep year for this yrs draft. I'd rather be picking top 4 in this class

Celibrate the nothing players all you want for there meaningless wins in November. When the time comes to play meaningful. Games vs players with elite skill we will loose
Let's just hope that occurs sooner rather then. Later

Don't give me we need to win for the. Fans that pay all that money to attend the games. They haven't missed any games in the last 10 yrs while our team lost.
So dont feel sorry for those fans . Most of them have greater lives then you and I.

By not loosing were. Continuing the pain of mediocrity for even longer.

Other then Marner and Nylander we don't have any impact players coming along. Every win just sickens me out.

Loose Leafs loose for 3 more yrs so we can get what we deserve players who can deliver us a cup

Did not know they were going to be tied up for 3 more years.:sarcasm:
 

tolwyn

Registered User
Feb 4, 2015
196
3
There playing a system of hockey that allows mediocre players to have a job in the NHL.

Who cares about a true rebuild. Drafting 9-15 has worked out for us so welll over the past 10 yrs. Sure other teams have picked good players there so why can't we. "Barf"

You wonder why the rest of the league and the league itself sees leaf fans with dunce caps on.

This team won't win. In the playoffs and we will never win a cup without drafting in the top 3 in the NHL draft. It's a deep year for this yrs draft. I'd rather be picking top 4 in this class

Celibrate the nothing players all you want for there meaningless wins in November. When the time comes to play meaningful. Games vs players with elite skill we will loose
Let's just hope that occurs sooner rather then. Later

Don't give me we need to win for the. Fans that pay all that money to attend the games. They haven't missed any games in the last 10 yrs while our team lost.
So dont feel sorry for those fans . Most of them have greater lives then you and I.

By not loosing were. Continuing the pain of mediocrity for even longer.

Other then Marner and Nylander we don't have any impact players coming along. Every win just sickens me out.

Loose Leafs loose for 3 more yrs so we can get what we deserve players who can deliver us a cup
Not really sure what you're getting at here at all... The players are NEVER going to play to lose. Most of the players they picked up are playing for themselves, in the sense that they have a chance at staying in the NHL. You will be very hard pressed to find a player who is going to intentionally tank with a team that he doesn't even know if he will be a part of long term.

The only reason tanking worked for Buffalo last season is because there was only a single lottery pick, and two very elite talents available at #1 and #2. They didn't even get #1 overall but were still guaranteed that elite impact player. All of us real fans know the Leafs need to try and get a high draft pick... Chances are we don't even pick in the top 3 with an 80% chance you don't with each pick, assuming you're dead last. We all know it's going to take more than just THIS draft to turn it all around. Preaching to the choir.
 

Doc300c

Registered User
Jun 18, 2014
774
19
Mississauga
Matt Hunwick is from Warren, MI. That's only 32 KM's from Windsor.

Jake = 550 KM's from Thunder Bay, ON
JVR = 700 KM's from Niagara Falls, ON

The rest are from Europe
 

nsleaf

Registered User
Oct 21, 2009
4,074
1,454
I want us to loose for 3 yrs picking top 4
We could pick #1 or 5 or 6

Better then picking 12th

I don't have to cheer for mediocre players who will win nothing for our franchise while they pocket millions




No you certainly don't! You are an all in kind of fan!
What if these picks you want to LOOSE:laugh: for? What if they don't work out? I guess you will want to do some more loosing:laugh:.

Sorry man it's just the misspelling is making me chuckle.;)
 

studebaker17

Registered User
Jan 24, 2010
1,254
194
I want us to loose for 3 yrs picking top 4
We could pick #1 or 5 or 6

Better then picking 12th

I don't have to cheer for mediocre players who will win nothing for our franchise while they pocket millions

Aside from Edmonton i can't think of any teams that have picked in the top 4 for 4yrs running. Most of the best teams and cup winners only have 1 or 2 top 4 picks on them. Going back 25yrs to Colorado/Quebec maybe ?
 

TML1967

Registered User
Jul 20, 2010
2,983
625
If the Leafs get a top 5 pick this year, and another top 10-15 (assuming we spend a 3rd or 2nd to move up from Pit) I think we will be pretty good on high end talent IMO.

If the Leafs draft #2, Franchise type D man
#3-4 I think will both be really good top line elite Wingers
Mid round has some really interesting players who have major upside.

That means at #2, you have your future top pairing set.
If #3 or 4, you have your go to guy for Nylander/Marner/Kadri as a #1 Wing, and means we can move even more pieces to get young D, and can choose a D at #10-15.
 

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
Matt Hunwick is from Warren, MI. That's only 32 KM's from Windsor.

Jake = 550 KM's from Thunder Bay, ON
JVR = 700 KM's from Niagara Falls, ON

The rest are from Europe

Of course there's players like Nazem Kadri and Peter Holland already on the team, heading into this season too.
 

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
Great post! I also think that we have way more than what we think we have and any arbitrary rebuild schedule (5 years, for example) is just that, arbitrary. Each individual team's case is very different from another's. None of us really know when the team is going to get really good, but I like the progress we've seen so far.

I think its crazy for fans now to think that as the season progresses and Babcock's system, along with the culture gets more entrenched, that we could possibly be a team that gets worse.

It just doesn't make any sense to me. This team was built to create a winning culture for guys like Nylander, Brown, Kapanen, Marner, etc to come up into. You don't create that culture by bottoming out.
 

BlueBaron

Registered User
May 29, 2006
15,674
6,308
Sarnia, On
I think its crazy for fans now to think that as the season progresses and Babcock's system, along with the culture gets more entrenched, that we could possibly be a team that gets worse.

It just doesn't make any sense to me. This team was built to create a winning culture for guys like Nylander, Brown, Kapanen, Marner, etc to come up into. You don't create that culture by bottoming out.

Generally I am inclined to agree with you but there is one factor to consider. As we get later into the season the games get harder. At that time the talent gap might become more obvious. Of course they may break though that too.
 

TLeafsFan

A True BeLeafer
May 16, 2014
5,772
10
Eastern Ontario
Generally I am inclined to agree with you but there is one factor to consider. As we get later into the season the games get harder. At that time the talent gap might become more obvious. Of course they may break though that too.

We have no way of knowing I am just going with my gut and my own beLeaf. IMO the late season collapsing we have become accustomed to seeing these past few years as Leaf fans is also about to become a thing of the past as well.
 

highslot

Registered User
Jul 10, 2012
1,601
18
There playing a system of hockey that allows mediocre players to have a job in the NHL.

Who cares about a true rebuild. Drafting 9-15 has worked out for us so welll over the past 10 yrs. Sure other teams have picked good players there so why can't we. "Barf"

You wonder why the rest of the league and the league itself sees leaf fans with dunce caps on.

This team won't win. In the playoffs and we will never win a cup without drafting in the top 3 in the NHL draft. It's a deep year for this yrs draft. I'd rather be picking top 4 in this class

Celibrate the nothing players all you want for there meaningless wins in November. When the time comes to play meaningful. Games vs players with elite skill we will loose
Let's just hope that occurs sooner rather then. Later

Don't give me we need to win for the. Fans that pay all that money to attend the games. They haven't missed any games in the last 10 yrs while our team lost.
So dont feel sorry for those fans . Most of them have greater lives then you and I.

By not loosing were. Continuing the pain of mediocrity for even longer.

Other then Marner and Nylander we don't have any impact players coming along. Every win just sickens me out.

Loose Leafs loose for 3 more yrs so we can get what we deserve players who can deliver us a cup

you seem to get sick pretty easily.

you realize that nylander a year before the draft was projected to go first overall? there are threads from 2 years ago. Also, do you really see Marner as anything below a top 3 pick in a non macdavid year? rielly in his draft year is arguable a top 3 performer; forsberg is the only one outperforming him this year. That's 3.

Do you realize that the core of the blackhawks is only 3 players: toews, kane and keith? they've changed keepers since winning their first cup in the last 10 years. their secondary players, whether it's saad, hossa, stralberg, versteeg, seabrook, are the ones that make a difference. edmonton's lack of them is why they keep losing, aside from rushing prospects and historically bad coaching.

our secondary players are timashov, dzierkals, bracco, johnson, brown, engvall, dermott, percy, valiev, nielson, loov, sparks, bibeau; all of them have the potential to be in the nhl and some in the top 6.

also, outside of the top 5, we were able to get steen, rask, kadri and we have an even better scout.

at this point, playing a consistent system and creating a culture of working hard all the time is more important than a top 3 pick. i wouldn't complain if we got one though; statistically we should have had macdavid.
 

HamiltonNHL

Parity era hockey is just puck luck + draft luck
Jan 4, 2012
21,181
11,732
at this point, playing a consistent system and creating a culture of working hard all the time is more important than a top 3 pick.
I am not willing to risk it.
I'll take the top 3 pick please.
for sure this year.
 

nonikhanna

Registered User
Feb 9, 2011
251
65
Maple Tree
We really only need 2 high end forwards, 2 high end defensemen on the team with an excellent support cast.
This is how almost all stanley cup teams are built. a few top end forwards but good depth to carry the team deeper into the playoffs. looking at players like soshnikov, brown, johnson, bracco, kapanen. this is our 2nd to 3rd liners. While at the top we have players like Nylander, Marner, JVR and a couple of extra bits from our depth can slot in with them.
On the defense we have Rielly, Gardiner, Phaneuf, Dermott, Percy This position is a bit unstable and we should be looking to draft more defensemen in the coming draft. We need high end talent at defense. another Top 2.

Maybe we can go for Chychrun this coming draft, but our future is not completely terrible and we shouldn't be looking to actively tank. This draft is gonna be a deep draft and we might have 2 first round picks to move up higher in the draft. We finally have got a team playing with accountability and I do not want to see this messed up.
 

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