Player Discussion: Braydon Coburn

[Tripod]

Good to hear the feedback on him.

When he was traded, I said that Tampa would be pleased with him because he doesn't need to lead a pairing. In Philly, he had to, and thus, made more mistakes.

He has always been really good at pressuring the puck carrier right near the blue line which often causes he other team to go offside. Really good with his stick. And as you have seen, very good skater.

Glad he is playing well. It's nice when trades are win-win.

 

[BOLTMAN]

True. The only chances Montreal had last night really, were on our horrid, atrocious, awful, kill-it-with-fire power play.

Why is this?

How do we have so many skilled players and this is the results.

Also I have never been impressed with our 4 on 4. :

 

[RDTBay4]

Nice article on Coburn

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/36847/braydon-coburn-playing-like-lightnings-final-piece

 

[snowden]

Hopefully he is our Sydor

 

[Glide5]

Nice article on Coburn

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/id/36847/braydon-coburn-playing-like-lightnings-final-piece

Very good article. And Coburn already sold his house in Philly and moved his family to Tampa. Good sign that he wants to stick around after next year. That is what you want to hear when you trade big assests for a player. Coburn has been worth it so far, I hope he keeps it up.

 

[More 2004]

Very good article. And Coburn already sold his house in Philly and moved his family to Tampa. Good sign that he wants to stick around after next year. That is what you want to hear when you trade big assests for a player. Coburn has been worth it so far, I hope he keeps it up.

I have liked what he brings for sure. SY did a great job at picking out a guy that would fit the system and fill a need. Not to mention that game 7 winner. wowie.

 

[The Gongshow]

He brings some more size to our blue line which is awesome, solid 2nd pair with Garrison as well, those two have been good together, Cobourn has been great with the team so far.

 

[Stammertime91]

Guy was hands down our 3rd best dman all postseason. very few mistakes but the mistakes he'd make at times were better than watching Sustr let Keith score the series clinching goal.

He skates, doesn't shoot often, blocks shots, hits, has a good stick, and is a steady 2nd pairing guy. Very pleased with the trade. Without him, we don't get this far. Not with playing one of Carle, Sustr, Barberio, Witkowski on the 2nd pair.

He should be here for a while.

 

[Hoek]

It'll be interesting to see how he does after after a training camp and learning the system. He could yet surprise us and hit another gear like Garrison.

 

[Stamper]

Braydon was spot-on for us, which was obvious the moment the trade took place, but the best part is that he's one of those defensemen that don't score a lot of points unless they're given the best possible situations, which isn't the case with TB.

The best part of that? He's not gonna get too much money when it's time to try and resign him. Which would have been impossible with a PPQB defender due to them scoring inflating their paychecks quite significantly.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

i like that he attacks the other team as they enter the zone

i do not like he gets trapped at times in zone but that is an adjustment on the team if it happens our forwards need to go to the puck and carry pass it out is pretty simple equation but i like what he brings which we are missing overall besides nestea playing similar style in defensive zone a ton well at least on walls and port of entry nestea plays same

coburn is one of our better defenders at the net

i will not downplay stralmans or hedmans net presence and say coburn is better hes good and big and can be physical but hedman and stralman are very good at the net at times too

 

[TheTriplets]

I'm speechless how positive most of you guys are about Coburn...

I've said it a couple times in different threads already, as soon as Coburn is on the ice, we constantly get stuck in our own zone and spent the time almost exclusively there. He couldn't do more than chip the puck out to the neutral zone if it was for the life of his kids. He's somewhat okay in his own zone (shotblocking and occasional physical play), I give him that. But in everything else, he's just so super limited.

Looking forward to HoseEmDown telling me how advanced stats don't matter, but they're definitely proving my eye test.
Coburn's CF% is below 40%. Try finding 5 players league wide with a CF% that bad. You'll have a very hard time, if it all. Same for scoring chances% and high danger scoring chances% (Just as a comparison: Hedman was just below 60% and even Matt Carle is at 46% CF and 49% scoring chances for).

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Garrison had a terrific season (being paired with Carle for example). Ever since he was paired with Coburn, his %s are waaaay down.

 

[Hoek]

How was he with the Flyers before being traded here?

 

[HoseEmDown]

I'm speechless how positive most of you guys are about Coburn...

I've said it a couple times in different threads already, as soon as Coburn is on the ice, we constantly get stuck in our own zone and spent the time almost exclusively there. He couldn't do more than chip the puck out to the neutral zone if it was for the life of his kids. He's somewhat okay in his own zone (shotblocking and occasional physical play), I give him that. But in everything else, he's just so super limited.

Looking forward to HoseEmDown telling me how advanced stats don't matter, but they're definitely proving my eye test.
Coburn's CF% is below 40%. Try finding 5 players league wide with a CF% that bad. You'll have a very hard time, if it all. Same for scoring chances% and high danger scoring chances% (Just as a comparison: Hedman was just below 60% and even Matt Carle is at 46% CF and 49% scoring chances for).

View attachment 83429 View attachment 83431 View attachment 83433

Garrison had a terrific season (being paired with Carle for example). Ever since he was paired with Coburn, his %s are waaaay down.

Advanced stats don't matter. Once we got Coburn he was our shutdown defender. If there was a draw in the defensive zone he was thrown out there, we also suck at faceoffs so it's hard to get out the zone when you don't control the puck. It's not like he was getting 60% offensive zone starts and still having these numbers.

As you said he's good at shot suppression so it's not like he's causing insane amounts of prime scoring chances.

 

[TheTriplets]

Advanced stats don't matter. Once we got Coburn he was our shutdown defender. If there was a draw in the defensive zone he was thrown out there, we also suck at faceoffs so it's hard to get out the zone when you don't control the puck. It's not like he was getting 60% offensive zone starts and still having these numbers.

As you said he's good at shot suppression so it's not like he's causing insane amounts of prime scoring chances.

They do. He never was that guy for us. Hedman shut down Kane. Paquette shut down Toews.
Already told you, zone starts barely matter, if at all.

Once again: Good Corsi players will move puck out of zone and not get buried by their zone starts. Consider this: Victor Hedman might start a fair number of shifts in d-zone too, but he gets out and earns o-zone draws so the overall d-zone start % for Hedman ends up being lower because he's driving play forward.

1. Never said he's good at it. He's somewhat solid in his own zone. It's easily the best part of his game (which isn't all that hard, considering how much he sucks at...well, basically everything else)
2. Actually...he does cause an insane amount of high-danger scoring chances. Look at the third table. It's high-danger scoring chances for. His HDSCF%(high-danger scoring chances for%) is 40%. With Coburn on ice, out of 100 high-danger scoring chances, 40 are TB chances and 60 are opponents chances. Same as for CF%, try and find 5 guys league-wide at or below 40%. You'll have a very hard time. So yeah, I'd call that an insane amount.

 

[HoseEmDown]

They do. He never was that guy for us. Hedman shut down Kane. Paquette shut down Toews.
Already told you, zone starts barely matter, if at all.

Once again: Good Corsi players will move puck out of zone and not get buried by their zone starts. Consider this: Victor Hedman might start a fair number of shifts in d-zone too, but he gets out and earns o-zone draws so the overall d-zone start % for Hedman ends up being lower because he's driving play forward.

1. Never said he's good at it. He's somewhat solid in his own zone. It's easily the best part of his game (which isn't all that hard, considering how much he sucks at...well, basically everything else)
2. Actually...he does cause an insane amount of high-danger scoring chances. Look at the third table. It's high-danger scoring chances for. His HDSCF%(high-danger scoring chances for%) is 40%. With Coburn on ice, out of 100 high-danger scoring chances, 40 are TB chances and 60 are opponents chances. Same as for CF%, try and find 5 guys league-wide at or below 40%. You'll have a very hard time. So yeah, I'd call that an insane amount.

How do zone starts not matter? If you start a majority of your shifts in the D zone of course you are going to spend more time in that zone.

Hedman and Stralman are both much better possession players who can skate the puck out, it's much easier for them to exit the zone, they're more skilled at that.

Like i said when you don't get nearly as many Ozone starts to D zone you are going to be on the ice for more chances against then created.

You know who hate great Corsi and other advanced stats, Teddy Purcell and everyone knew he sucked. Sometimes those stats don't tell the whole story.

 

[TheTriplets]

How do zone starts not matter? If you start a majority of your shifts in the D zone of course you are going to spend more time in that zone.

Hedman and Stralman are both much better possession players who can skate the puck out, it's much easier for them to exit the zone, they're more skilled at that.

Like i said when you don't get nearly as many Ozone starts to D zone you are going to be on the ice for more chances against then created.

You know who hate great Corsi and other advanced stats, Teddy Purcell and everyone knew he sucked. Sometimes those stats don't tell the whole story.

Well, read what I said above: "Good Corsi players will move puck out of zone and not get buried by their zone starts. Consider this: Victor Hedman might start a fair number of shifts in d-zone too, but he gets out and earns o-zone draws so the overall d-zone start % for Hedman ends up being lower because he's driving play forward." Pretty much answers your question.

And one more thing: only 23% I think it was of shifts are "true" ozone or dzone starts. 77% of shifts are either neutral zone faceoffs or on the fly starts. Meaning only between a fifth and a fourth of shifts are theoretically eligible to be "influenced" by zone starts.

Of course they are. That's what I'm saying. Coburn sucks at it, that's why we get stuck in our zone when 55 is on the ice, but we don't get stuck when 77-6 are on the ice.
You sound like "they're more skilled at that" is an excuse for Coburn being less skilled. He sucks at it, plain and simple. That's why he's not a good player, neither eye-test wise, nor (advanced) stats wise.

And that's not an argument. There are a whole bunch of other shutdown guys in the league that have a majority of their "true" zone starts in their own zone. Yet, their numbers don't look like Coburns.

 

[VinikToWinIt]

A few things I noticed about Coburn this season:

One thing that Coburn does bring to the table is physicality, which our behemoth defensive core somehow lacks. He seems to be the only one of our defensemen capable of clearing the crease by taking the body, which is a strong asset of his. I can't stand when everyone sits around and tries to find the puck with their sticks in the crease...

He's also not afraid to shoot, although his shot isn't particularly a hard one. He finds himself caught in the offensive zone too often by pinching a bit too enthusiastically when there is no real reason for him to be doing so. Luckily his speed can cover some of his mental lapses. Overall, I think I need to see more of him to give him a pass/fail. I've liked some parts of his game, but others I've been underwhelmed by. I wonder how much of this is caused by learning our system on the fly, especially with the injury right after we acquired him. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but I hope his numbers improve next season.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

Well, read what I said above: "Good Corsi players will move puck out of zone and not get buried by their zone starts. Consider this: Victor Hedman might start a fair number of shifts in d-zone too, but he gets out and earns o-zone draws so the overall d-zone start % for Hedman ends up being lower because he's driving play forward." Pretty much answers your question.

And one more thing: only 23% I think it was of shifts are "true" ozone or dzone starts. 77% of shifts are either neutral zone faceoffs or on the fly starts. Meaning only between a fifth and a fourth of shifts are theoretically eligible to be "influenced" by zone starts.

Of course they are. That's what I'm saying. Coburn sucks at it, that's why we get stuck in our zone when 55 is on the ice, but we don't get stuck when 77-6 are on the ice.
You sound like "they're more skilled at that" is an excuse for Coburn being less skilled. He sucks at it, plain and simple. That's why he's not a good player, neither eye-test wise, nor (advanced) stats wise.

And that's not an argument. There are a whole bunch of other shutdown guys in the league that have a majority of their "true" zone starts in their own zone. Yet, their numbers don't look like Coburns.

Advanced stats... are just that, stats.
What do you expect from Coburn?
He's a defensive defenseman not Brian Leetch.
He's put on situations to defend, not to attack (3rd period from game 1 against the hawks for example), it's only natural he doesn't have the offensive stats that puck-moving defenders have...
What I want from Coburn is to defend well and not make mistakes... he ticks those two boxes and for me he's fine.
If you want him to be like Seabrook (to say someone) then yeah, he's not the guy

Teddy Purcell was also mr. awesome in advanced stats and I swear he was Matt Carle like out there

 

[Iceman]

A few things I noticed about Coburn this season:

One thing that Coburn does bring to the table is physicality, which our behemoth defensive core somehow lacks. He seems to be the only one of our defensemen capable of clearing the crease by taking the body, which is a strong asset of his. I can't stand when everyone sits around and tries to find the puck with their sticks in the crease...

He's also not afraid to shoot, although his shot isn't particularly a hard one. He finds himself caught in the offensive zone too often by pinching a bit too enthusiastically when there is no real reason for him to be doing so. Luckily his speed can cover some of his mental lapses. Overall, I think I need to see more of him to give him a pass/fail. I've liked some parts of his game, but others I've been underwhelmed by. I wonder how much of this is caused by learning our system on the fly, especially with the injury right after we acquired him. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but I hope his numbers improve next season.

Yup, these things are the most positive things about this acquisition.

If I went for a dman with a first round pick+ I would probably target someone else but I'm happy so far. Don't think we would be playing in the SCF as early as this year without him.

 

[TheTriplets]

Advanced stats... are just that, stats.
What do you expect from Coburn?
He's a defensive defenseman not Brian Leetch.
He's put on situations to defend, not to attack (3rd period from game 1 against the hawks for example), it's only natural he doesn't have the offensive stats that puck-moving defenders have...
What I want from Coburn is to defend well and not make mistakes... he ticks those two boxes and for me he's fine.
If you want him to be like Seabrook (to say someone) then yeah, he's not the guy

Teddy Purcell was also mr. awesome in advanced stats and I swear he was Matt Carle like out there

Yeah, and they tell the story I see on the ice every game.
You don't get me point. It's not whether he's put on to defend/attack or whatever. It's not about offensive stats (goals, assists, etc).
It's about the fact, that whenever Coburn is on the ice, TB is in their own end (and not, or just in a few cases, because they start there), which leads to two things:

1. opponent can score
2. TB can't score

that's the entire, simple problem. That's what I observed watching the games. And that's what advanced stats prove and underline in impressive fashion.

How does it help that he's somewhat okay playing in his own end, if that's the lone thing he does?
It's basically bringing oneself in danger but often being able to rescue oneself. Wouldn't it be much smarter bringing the opponent in danger?

You're saying he ticks the box "not making mistakes". Well, he has a few turnovers less than Carle or Sustr, I'll give you that (actually pretty close, Coburn 16, Carle 19 in the playoffs). But his mistake is to net get the puck out. He chips the pucks in the neutral zone and 80% of the time, an opponent brings/chips it right back in our zone.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Yeah, and they tell the story I see on the ice every game.
You don't get me point. It's not whether he's put on to defend/attack or whatever. It's not about offensive stats (goals, assists, etc).
It's about the fact, that whenever Coburn is on the ice, TB is in their own end (and not, or just in a few cases, because they start there), which leads to two things:

1. opponent can score
2. TB can't score

that's the entire, simple problem. That's what I observed watching the games. And that's what advanced stats prove and underline in impressive fashion.

How does it help that he's somewhat okay playing in his own end, if that's the lone thing he does?
It's basically bringing oneself in danger but often being able to rescue oneself. Wouldn't it be much smarter bringing the opponent in danger?

You're saying he ticks the box "not making mistakes". Well, he has a few turnovers less than Carle or Sustr, I'll give you that (actually pretty close, Coburn 16, Carle 19 in the playoffs). But his mistake is to net get the puck out. He chips the pucks in the neutral zone and 80% of the time, an opponent brings/chips it right back in our zone.

Who would you rather have Coburn or Carle?

 

[Volodya Krutov]

By far the most defensive zone starts on the team, particularly against the Hawks with an insane minus -27% offensive zone start relative to teammates. When you take in that series how totally dominated Tampa was at the dot into consideration, you could argue Coburn just spent the entire 6 games defending against the Hawks. Kind of tough assignment I guess.

Coburn is a middle pairing minutes eater. Sure he's not super great at moving the puck, all we need from him is just reliability though. I've not been overly impressed to be honest but I think Coburn's still a fine defensive dman.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

to triplets i love coburn as a five not as a 3 or 4 he is just ok but as a 5 he will be perfect imho for what he brings advanced stats are ok to use but i view you as a hater more then seeing the entire game hell yes he gets hemmed in but to me with our system that is cause hes out there with pac man and brown and boyle all the time etc...

if flipper is running the third line next year he will do much better even if is playing 3-4 spot

i also knew exactly what coburn brings to table before signing him the good and the bad its our forwards that need to get the pucks out more then him he cant really be hedman and skate it out

carle was much much much worse and often he was paired with garrison who was tired or not the same guy he was during season or ohhhhh my god shut the eyes sustr lol

again i like that he tries to shut down the opposition at the line i like that he will block shots and kick people out of crease i dont care if he does more then that

i want our forwards to do more myself the top forwards actually do more

 

[TheTriplets]

Who would you rather have Coburn or Carle?

Depends on the situation. As I said, I have no problem with Carle playing next to Garrison/Barberio/Stralman. Next to Sustr, he was horrible.

I'd rather have a Garrison/Carle pairing, than a Garrison/Coburn pairing.

But I'd prefer Coburn/Sustr over Carle/Sustr.

It depends whom you play them with. But of course, after next season, Carle (or better his contract) has to be moved, no doubt.