Boy dies after being struck in neck by puck at hockey practice in Quebec

[Frank Drebin]

So the kids I'm coaching are not what I'd call elite! Probably slightly better then average for their age at best.

Can an elite 11-12 year old hit 75 mph? Probably. For our kids we really don't work on or practice slap shots anyways, but their writers are probably more like 40 mph. But that's still a fair bit of force. When coaching I have to remind myself NOT to stand near the net when they're doing any drill that involves shooting.

I played goal for years and I started when I was 15 back in 1995 I think. First year all I had was an sk2000 with a bubble mask. No dangler no neck guard. One of the first practices I played I took an unscreened slapper from the point directly in the neck. It was shocking and scary but I was fine in a couple minutes. Guess I got lucky.

Throughout my adult career I wore a padded neck guard with collarbone protection and a dangler. It's insane to me that modern goalies play without either.

 

[JMCx4]

The police statement included in the OP's linked article said nothing about who shot the puck that struck the victim. Anyone on the ice during the practice - youth OR adult - could have been the shooter. So the recent focus in this thread on how fast a youth player can shoot a puck could be misguided speculation in trying to understand this particular incident.

 

[Mattb124]

No effect is probably not accurate, but we also don't know if the deceased was wearing a neck guard when this occurred.

The linked article says that minor players in that league are required to wear neck guards anytime they step in the ice, so it is a fair assumption that he was.

As stated, neck guards are not designed to protect against puck-related injuries.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I played goal for years and I started when I was 15 back in 1995 I think. First year all I had was an sk2000 with a bubble mask. No dangler no neck guard. One of the first practices I played I took an unscreened slapper from the point directly in the neck. It was shocking and scary but I was fine in a couple minutes. Guess I got lucky.

Throughout my adult career I wore a padded neck guard with collarbone protection and a dangler. It's insane to me that modern goalies play without either.

My men's league goalie plays with a vintage JOFA bubble mask - both because it was cheap, and he thinks it looks cool.. I think he's crazy. Thank God he at least finally got a dangler eventually.

It's not like being hit in the neck by a puck is some one in a million event. It happens in a hockey game. The large majority of the time the person is going to be fine. But you can get these kind of freak accidents if hit in just the wrong way.

 

[Frank Drebin]

The police statement included in the OP's linked article said nothing about who shot the puck that struck the victim. Anyone on the ice during the practice - youth OR adult - could have been the shooter. So the recent focus in this thread on how fast a youth player can shoot a puck could be misguided speculation in trying to understand this particular incident.

One would think that if it was an adult that shot it there may be a police investigation though?

 

[JMCx4]

One would think that if it was an adult that shot it there may be a police investigation though?

Per a subsequent Global News story: "Police say it will assist the Quebec coroner’s officer in its investigation into the causes and circumstances surrounding the boy’s death."

 

[Yukon Joe]

One would think that if it was an adult that shot it there may be a police investigation though?

Why? an accident is still just an accident.

I might expect a coroner's inquiry - that can happen after after any unusual death - but police would only investigate if there was some suggestion of malice.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Why? an accident is still just an accident.

I might expect a coroner's inquiry - that can happen after after any unusual death - but police would only investigate if there was some suggestion of malice.

Im not well versed in the terminology/procedure.

I would think it would need to be determined that if it was an adult that fired the shot whether it was caused by undue care/stupidity on the adults part as some sort of investigation.

Not suggesting that this is what happened in this scenario but normal process would rule that out, yeah?

 

[leeroggy]

This is like the fluke lacrosse death that happens when a shot hits the heart directly and causes cardiac arrest, so sad.

As a dad, i grieve for anyone who dies young.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Im not well versed in the terminology/procedure.

I would think it would need to be determined that if it was an adult that fired the shot whether it was caused by undue care/stupidity on the adults part as some sort of investigation.

Not suggesting that this is what happened in this scenario but normal process would rule that out, yeah?

So, like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of coroner's inquiry. That's led by the coroner (or equivalent position) in cases of sudden or unexplained deaths. It happens in court, and the purpose isn't to punish anyone, but only to get more information about what happened and any recommendations to try and prevent something similar from happening again.

So police might show up and take some statements, but before they launch into a serious investigation they have to have some suspicion that a crime was committed.

I'm just going to assume that the hypothetical adult wasn't trying to deliberately hurt the kid, so the only crime available would be criminal negligence. In order to reach the level of criminal negligence a person has to show "wanton or reckless disregard for the lives or safety of other persons". It's a fairly high standard. One puck, one time, seems extremely unlikely to me to meet that standard.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Next time I go to SportChek I'm getting my kid one of these

General PDP Template

www.sportchek.ca

I am also wondering about shoulder pads... my kid is on the smaller side and despite being a U11 still fits a pretty small and thin set of shoulder pads that he uses for games despite the kids getting bigger and packing heavier shots at this level. @leeroggy 's comments about lacrosse deaths certainly give me pause as the front of shoulder pads do provide some chest protection. I think an upgrade will be necessary there too.

 

[Frank Drebin]

So, like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some kind of coroner's inquiry. That's led by the coroner (or equivalent position) in cases of sudden or unexplained deaths. It happens in court, and the purpose isn't to punish anyone, but only to get more information about what happened and any recommendations to try and prevent something similar from happening again.

So police might show up and take some statements, but before they launch into a serious investigation they have to have some suspicion that a crime was committed.

I'm just going to assume that the hypothetical adult wasn't trying to deliberately hurt the kid, so the only crime available would be criminal negligence. In order to reach the level of criminal negligence a person has to show "wanton or reckless disregard for the lives or safety of other persons". It's a fairly high standard. One puck, one time, seems extremely unlikely to me to meet that standard.

100% I'm just trying to understand the process and I'm guilty of being curious of what exactly happened. So obviously there is an inquiry but that doesn't mean that we are looking to punish anyone. But if someone was criminally responsible this would be apparent through the inquiry.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Next time I go to SportChek I'm getting my kid one of these

General PDP Template

www.sportchek.ca

I am also wondering about shoulder pads... my kid is on the smaller side and despite being a U10 still fits a pretty small and thin set of shoulder pads that he uses for games despite the kids getting bigger and packing heavier shots at this level. @leeroggy 's comments about lacrosse deaths certainly give me pause as the front of shoulder pads do provide some chest protection. I think an upgrade will be necessary there too.

Interesting. It does say that neck guard is the "worlds first combined impact and slash resistant neck guard". I wonder to what extent it would help such an incident like this.

 

[jetsmooseice]

Interesting. It does say that neck guard is the "worlds first combined impact and slash resistant neck guard". I wonder to what extent it would help such an incident like this.

I'm not sure to what extent it actually would help, but it appears to be intended to help protect against blunt force impact and blades as compared to standard neck protectors which are there to protect against skate blades only.

 

[Yukon Joe]

100% I'm just trying to understand the process and I'm guilty of being curious of what exactly happened. So obviously there is an inquiry but that doesn't mean that we are looking to punish anyone. But if someone was criminally responsible this would be apparent through the inquiry.

So it's not guaranteed there would be an inquiry - it's just a possibility.

And I believe, but could be wrong, that the evidence on an inquiry would not be admissible in a criminal trial. The reason is the right to silence. So lets say it was an adult who fired the puck. At an inquiry you can force that person to testify in court. That violates the Charter right to silence, so what happens is that statement can't be used against you (note this is completely different then in the US - you can not "plead the fifth" in Canada).

If there was any thought someone might be criminally responsible the inquiry would be put on hold until the police have done their own investigation.

 

[Frank Drebin]

So it's not guaranteed there would be an inquiry - it's just a possibility.

And I believe, but could be wrong, that the evidence on an inquiry would not be admissible in a criminal trial. The reason is the right to silence. So lets say it was an adult who fired the puck. At an inquiry you can force that person to testify in court. That violates the Charter right to silence, so what happens is that statement can't be used against you (note this is completely different then in the US - you can not "plead the fifth" in Canada).

If there was any thought someone might be criminally responsible the inquiry would be put on hold until the police have done their own investigation.

Thank you for taking the time to explain

 

[GrumpyKoala]

No effect is probably not entirely true, but a neck guard is designed to prevent cutting, not blunt force.

Neck guard come in various shapes, material, thickness etc

From the one that are play pretend thin stripes of nothingness to the massive forteresse of unconfort.

What sad is that an easy piece of equipment to cheap out on, hockey expensive and getting decent skates or a modern twig get all the intentions.

Why pay another 100+ $ on a good and confortable guard when there are plentys below 20.

 

[oldunclehue]

So it's not guaranteed there would be an inquiry - it's just a possibility.

And I believe, but could be wrong, that the evidence on an inquiry would not be admissible in a criminal trial. The reason is the right to silence. So lets say it was an adult who fired the puck. At an inquiry you can force that person to testify in court. That violates the Charter right to silence, so what happens is that statement can't be used against you (note this is completely different then in the US - you can not "plead the fifth" in Canada).

If there was any thought someone might be criminally responsible the inquiry would be put on hold until the police have done their own investigation.

Depending on Provincial law/policy, many areas have the Police act as Coroner's investigators for all deaths. Not sure on Quebec but here in my province they do so this may simply be added resources as many regions/towns/cities don't have a coroners office or investigators. Also just because the incident doesn't appear to be criminal from what little we know doesn't mean it isn't...so having Police involved from the onset may help ensure the integrity of the investigations.

And as a hockey coach, I have seen countless times kids digging a puck out of a net and someone else firing pucks at the net while they are in there. Even at 12 years old a slap shot or hard wrist shot to the neck is going to be the potential of being deadly.

Sad situation but we can't prevent everything in life that is a potentially deadly situation.

 

[jetsmooseice]

So I went out and got one of those Aegis Interceptor neck guards. $44.99 at Source for Sports.

Consdiering its function, it's surprisingly soft and pliable, I was expecting some sort of rigid dog collar type thing. I mean, it's definitely stiffer than a regular neck protector which is basically just a heavy duty fabric - my son noticed the difference right away - but it's still pretty light. I don't think it'll take long to get used to. The bib part is also very light.

Seems like a small price to pay for added protection of a vulnerable body part.

 

[Frank Drebin]

So I went out and got one of those Aegis Interceptor neck guards. $44.99 at Source for Sports.

Consdiering its function, it's surprisingly soft and pliable, I was expecting some sort of rigid dog collar type thing. I mean, it's definitely stiffer than a regular neck protector which is basically just a heavy duty fabric - my son noticed the difference right away - but it's still pretty light. I don't think it'll take long to get used to. The bib part is also very light.

Seems like a small price to pay for added protection of a vulnerable body part.

I wonder if goalie style bibs might become more popular. I started wearing one after I took a shot to the collarbone and it had zero adjustment period for comfort.

Completely out of stock at goalie monkey. Go figure

 

[swoopster]

We can collide playing basketball of soccer, a misplaced elbow, heads banging into each other... life has riisks.

 

[Frank Drebin]

We can collide playing basketball of soccer, a misplaced elbow, heads banging into each other... life has riisks.

absolutely. Proper protective equipment can reduce those risks. People probably said the same thing when helmets, cages and neckguards were introduced

 

[jetsmooseice]

Well, my kid wore his Aegis Interceptor for the first time in his game yesterday. No issues whatsoever, he said it felt fine. I was worried that he'd be a little slow to warm up to it but he said it felt just like his old one.

Getting one of these seems like a no-brainer.

 

[Frank Drebin]

Well, my kid wore his Aegis Interceptor for the first time in his game yesterday. No issues whatsoever, he said it felt fine. I was worried that he'd be a little slow to warm up to it but he said it felt just like his old one.

Getting one of these seems like a no-brainer.

Crazy little story, my son got in a minor fight with one of his teammates at his last practice before Christmas, he stormed off the ice and told us he never liked hockey and doesn't want to play next season.

Turns out he had major anxiety after hearing about this poor kid and he actually wants a more protective neck guard. When I played goal I had one from Maltese hockey and it was unreal. This one offers a lot of protection? The Maltese gel foam one is a couple hundred bucks

 

[jetsmooseice]

Crazy little story, my son got in a minor fight with one of his teammates at his last practice before Christmas, he stormed off the ice and told us he never liked hockey and doesn't want to play next season.

Turns out he had major anxiety after hearing about this poor kid and he actually wants a more protective neck guard. When I played goal I had one from Maltese hockey and it was unreal. This one offers a lot of protection? The Maltese gel foam one is a couple hundred bucks

Here's the item: INTERCEPTOR BIB

It's interesting, it doesn't seem like some kind of rock-hard guard that could withstand anything... it feels fairly pliable. To the point where wearing one is not going to be an issue for most players as it isn't going to feel a lot different than what they're wearing anyway. But the manufacturers do claim that it is pretty strong and can withstand slashes and impacts.

Here's a news article that tries to explain some of the science behind the product: The Right Chemistry: D30 is a remarkable non-Newtonian fluid

I'm in no position to judge whether this thing is actually capable of being what it claims to be. But you would think that there would be plenty of online critiques if it isn't, and I haven't really come across any. Fingers crossed that we won't ever actually need its protective qualities...