Blue Jays Discussion: Borucki finally struggled a bit. But it's probably not time to panic yet.

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

Pretty good haul for a UFA. Both May and Diaz should be up at some point next year I imagine. Baltimore should have sought a position player instead of May though given how much they suck developing pitching lol.

Diaz is a good prospect but I don't value corner OF's quite as much as other positions.
May is interesting pitching prospect with middle of the rotation potential.
Errol Robinson is rather meh 23year old AA player. I doubt he turns into anything.

Okay but not great return. They failed to get a TOR arm or a high upside middle of the diamond prospect so I don't see how you can view it as anything better than okay.

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

Yea I really wouldn’t have issue taking a bunch of lower level prospects from them with high ceilings. I’m more than willing to gamble on the prospects coming back in the Happ deal

You're dealing with Cashman though....good at what he does and pain in the ass to deal with. The guys he will offer will be players with medical concerns or guys that they view as 5th starters/pen arms. AKA Chance Adams, Cody Carroll, Nick Nelson, etc.

I expect our experienced management team to tell him to go pound sand (in a polite way) when he refuses to budge and wants them to take his left overs. I don't think there is any point letting Cashman string them along if his "non starter" list extends much beyond Sheffield/Florial/Frazier. Sure Cashman could slip up and make a mistake but I'd rather find another dance partner if we want to maximize upside in the return.

I still think the Brewers make the most sense. Desperate team that has lost 6 in a row and badly want to make the playoffs and more importantly win the central to guarantee home playoff games/avoid 1 game playoff. They lost out on Machado so they have plenty of prospect capital and we might be able to extract more upside out of them then we would with Cashman.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Diaz is a good prospect but I don't value corner OF's quite as much as other positions.
May is interesting pitching prospect with middle of the rotation potential.
Errol Robinson is rather meh 23year old AA player. I doubt he turns into anything.

Okay but not great return. They failed to get a TOR arm or a high upside middle of the diamond prospect so I don't see how you can view it as anything better than okay.

I confused May for White (which with Diaz would make it 2 top 100 prospects for two months of a UFA). May isn't that far off White though imo, and BA has him ahead on their latest update.

The deal also includes two more players going to Baltimore, so let's wait and see.

I didn't say it was a great deal. I said it's a pretty good deal under the circumstances which it is.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

You're dealing with Cashman though....good at what he does and pain in the ass to deal with. The guys he will offer will be players with medical concerns or guys that they view as 5th starters/pen arms. AKA Chance Adams, Cody Carroll, Nick Nelson, etc.

I expect our experienced management team to tell him to go pound sand (in a polite way) when he refuses to budge and wants them to take his left overs. I don't think there is any point letting Cashman string them along if his "non starter" list extends much beyond Sheffield/Florial/Frazier. Sure Cashman could slip up and make a mistake but I'd rather find another dance partner if we want to maximize upside in the return.

I still think the Brewers make the most sense. Desperate team that has lost 6 in a row and badly want to make the playoffs and more importantly win the central to guarantee home playoff games/avoid 1 game playoff. They lost out on Machado so they have plenty of prospect capital and we might be able to extract more upside out of them then we would with Cashman.

I agree the Brewers seem most likely, but I wouldn't say they have plenty of prospect capital. Outside of Hiura and Burnes the rest of their prospects are pretty blah. One could argue that Yankees prospects 3-15 are more interesting than anything the Brewers have outside their top 2.

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

I know I'm suppose to be impressed by this big collection of Yankee pitching prospects but I see a lot of guys with more question marks than answers. Most of their top arms coming into the year have been disappointments outside of Sheffield who is definitely a stud.

-Abreu is living off 2016 and has failed to impress since when he's actually been on the field. Yennsy Diaz is pretty much the same guy but minus the gopher balls so far. Currently on DL where he has been a regular the past 2 years.
-Chance Adams hasn't impressed me much this year and is looking more like a back end starter.
-Medina is a 19 year old in short season A ball that has a live fastball but command that is nowhere to be found. Any comparison to Luis Severino ends with the first name and a big heater. Eric Pardinho does laps around this kid.
-Perez had a solid year in 2017 but not that impressive when you realize he was a 21 year old in Low A. He's now on the DL after being brutal in the FSL.
-Acevado likely ends up in the bullpen due to his lack of durability and inability to go deep into games. DL regular over the years
-Tate doesn't have the greatest upside and there is questions if his future remains in the pen. Also Currently on the DL. If he was drafted in the 3rd round and his name was Patrick Murphy I wonder how much hype he would get....
-Sauer is a recent 2nd round pick out of high school that has potential but he's only had a handful of starts to his name so far.
-Schmidt is coming off Tommy John surgery and thrown all of 12 innings so far. Wait and see at this point if the hype is warranted.
-Loaisiga actually had an impressive year but that shoulder trouble is very concerning. Also have to wonder about a guy that hasn't had a gradual innings buildup and how he gets from 30 innings in 2017 to a guy who is taking a regular spot in the rotation anytime soon. He would be a classic sell high candidate if not for the bad shoulder.
-Stephan was promsing at lower levels but has hit a bit of a wall at AA. Living dangerously with the amount of fly balls he allows.
-Deivi Garcia...now that's intriguing. This is a guy that interests me more than anyone on this list if we were to deal Happ to the Yankees. Swing and miss stuff and is rather young for his level.


I'd definitely be wanting access to all the Yankee medical reports so we don't get the Kenny Williams treatment. I wouldn't trust Cashman to be straight up about things and definitely not when dealing with a division rival.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

You're dealing with Cashman though....good at what he does and pain in the ass to deal with. The guys he will offer will be players with medical concerns or guys that they view as 5th starters/pen arms. AKA Chance Adams, Cody Carroll, Nick Nelson, etc.

I expect our experienced management team to tell him to go pound sand (in a polite way) when he refuses to budge and wants them to take his left overs. I don't think there is any point letting Cashman string them along if his "non starter" list extends much beyond Sheffield/Florial/Frazier. Sure Cashman could slip up and make a mistake but I'd rather find another dance partner if we want to maximize upside in the return.

I still think the Brewers make the most sense. Desperate team that has lost 6 in a row and badly want to make the playoffs and more importantly win the central to guarantee home playoff games/avoid 1 game playoff. They lost out on Machado so they have plenty of prospect capital and we might be able to extract more upside out of them then we would with Cashman.

This is well said. He has no interest in sending assets of value in the opposite direction. Anything he offers will be flawed, which is probably why the two sides have been "haggling" for a couple of weeks.

 

[zeke]

I know I'm suppose to be impressed by this big collection of Yankee pitching prospects but I see a lot of guys with more question marks than answers. Most of their top arms coming into the year have been disappointments outside of Sheffield who is definitely a stud.

-Abreu is living off 2016 and has failed to impress since when he's actually been on the field. Yennsy Diaz is pretty much the same guy but minus the gopher balls so far. Currently on DL where he has been a regular the past 2 years.
-Chance Adams hasn't impressed me much this year and is looking more like a back end starter.
-Medina is a 19 year old in short season A ball that has a live fastball but command that is nowhere to be found. Any comparison to Luis Severino ends with the first name and a big heater. Eric Pardinho does laps around this kid.
-Perez had a solid year in 2017 but not that impressive when you realize he was a 21 year old in Low A. He's now on the DL after being brutal in the FSL.
-Acevado likely ends up in the bullpen due to his lack of durability and inability to go deep into games. DL regular over the years
-Tate doesn't have the greatest upside and there is questions if his future remains in the pen. Also Currently on the DL. If he was drafted in the 3rd round and his name was Patrick Murphy I wonder how much hype he would get....
-Sauer is a recent 2nd round pick out of high school that has potential but he's only had a handful of starts to his name so far.
-Schmidt is coming off Tommy John surgery and thrown all of 12 innings so far. Wait and see at this point if the hype is warranted.
-Loaisiga actually had an impressive year but that shoulder trouble is very concerning. Also have to wonder about a guy that hasn't had a gradual innings buildup and how he gets from 30 innings in 2017 to a guy who is taking a regular spot in the rotation anytime soon. He would be a classic sell high candidate if not for the bad shoulder.
-Stephan was promsing at lower levels but has hit a bit of a wall at AA. Living dangerously with the amount of fly balls he allows.
-Deivi Garcia...now that's intriguing. This is a guy that interests me more than anyone on this list if we were to deal Happ to the Yankees. Swing and miss stuff and is rather young for his level.


I'd definitely be wanting access to all the Yankee medical reports so we don't get the Kenny Williams treatment. I wouldn't trust Cashman to be straight up about things and definitely not when dealing with a division rival.

"stud" is much too strong a word for Sheffield, imo.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

"stud" is much too strong a word for Sheffield, imo.

They've done a good job of driving his value up via hype. Good prospect, not a stud. I'd say him and SRF are in the same tier, and I don't hear "stud" from anyone outside of knowledgeable Blue Jays fans when people talk about SRF.

 

[zeke]

I'd daresay SRF is probably better - better stats, and more pitches.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I'd daresay SRF is probably better - better stats, and more pitches.

Yup. And, dare I say, a more traditional frame for a starter, and no history of shoulder issues.

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

"stud" is much too strong a word for Sheffield, imo.

stud as in a solid #2. I don't see him as an ace or anything.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

stud as in a solid #2. I don't see him as an ace or anything.

Would make him a 65-70 FV grade prospect (which ultimately is a stud), and that he is not.

 

[Discoverer]

Would make him a 65-70 FV grade prospect (which ultimately is a stud), and that he is not.

I only have a pretty basic knowledge of the 20-80 scale, but if a pitcher has to be a 65 or better to profile as a #2 starter... does that not suggest that no pitching prospect in baseball right now profiles as anything better than a #3?

 

[GoonieFace]

People toss around the “stud” label too much. There has ever only been 1 true “stud” in peoplekind’s history... Danny Zuko

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I only have a pretty basic knowledge of the 20-80 scale, but if a pitcher has to be a 65 or better to profile as a #2 starter... does that not suggest that no pitching prospect in baseball right now profiles as anything better than a #3?

Correct you are! Whitley, the best SP prospect in baseball currently, is projected to be a "high end #3".

60FV is a good (high end) #3. So, think a #3 in the Indians\Astros rotation. That doesn't mean said player would be the best person in crappy rotation, of course. J.A. Happ is the Jays best starter for 2018, but at his peak, is a decent #3. Also doesn't mean guys can't develop and jump well above their projected FV (like a deGrom or Kluber).

 

[Discoverer]

This is well said. He has no interest in sending assets of value in the opposite direction. Anything he offers will be flawed, which is probably why the two sides have been "haggling" for a couple of weeks.

It's also why they settled on Gray instead of actually pushing for Cole, and why they now appear to have missed on Machado. I get the allure of continuously building around your top prospects, but when you're already loaded with great, young, controllable guys like Judge, Severino, Torres, Sanchez, and Andujar, I don't understand why you wouldn't be willing to cash in on a top prospect or two to actually get the guy you want.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

It's also why they settled on Gray instead of actually pushing for Cole, and why they now appear to have missed on Machado. I get the allure of continuously building around your top prospects, but when you're already loaded with great, young, controllable guys like Judge, Severino, Torres, Sanchez, and Andujar, I don't understand why you wouldn't be willing to cash in on a top prospect or two to actually get the guy you want.

One thing I respected about AA was his realization that you need to be willing to lose some (or give some) in a deal to a) get something done and b) have people want to deal with you in the future. Dombrowski is the same.

I've said it in here many a time, but I would avoid dealing with Cashman (or the Yankees in general) if I was a GM. They wouldn't even be on my trade board. Kenny Williams was the same (though devoid of the same aptitude and resources). He was also trying to screw someone, and rarely dealt in good faith.

The Yankees front-office will trade you who they don't want; never a guy they have to make a tough decision on letting go. Snake-oil salesmen. "Take this Clint Frazier!!! He's good, I swear!!"

 

[Discoverer]

One thing I respected about AA was his realization that you need to be willing to lose some (or give some) in a deal to a) get something done and b) have people want to deal with you in the future. Dombrowski is the same.

I've said it in here many a time, but I would avoid dealing with Cashman (or the Yankees in general) if I was a GM. They wouldn't even be on my trade board. Kenny Williams was the same (though devoid of the same aptitude and resources). He was also trying to screw someone, and rarely dealt in good faith.

The Yankees front-office will trade you who they don't want; never a guy they have to make a tough decision on letting go. Snake-oil salesmen. "Take this Clint Frazier!!! He's good, I swear!!"

I wouldn't have a problem dealing with those guys, but I don't think it would go much beyond "This is my price - these are the pieces I want and we're not settling for anything less."

I find Dombrowski just goes too far in the opposite direction.

 

[zeke]

Kawhi, Tavares......

....can MLSE please just buy the Jays already?

 

[BlueForever75]

Kawhi, Tavares......

....can MLSE please just buy the Jays already?

Thinking the same thing. Maybe we can trade for Trout.

 

[Longshot]

Kawhi, Tavares......

....can MLSE please just buy the Jays already?

LOL

No chance in hell Rogers is giving up its exclusivity on the Jays. I'm not sure how the financials would work out or what the team is worth, but losing 50% of all TV and radio games would be killer for their stations. That summer content is gold!

 

[BlueForever75]

Never say never. MLSE has the pockets to purchase the Jays. Especially if it means building them a new stadium.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least to see the Jays added to the MLSE umbrella with a TV deal in place for Rogers to hold on to the television rights. MLSE doesn't make $$$ on the Leafs, Raptors and TFC for television. They make it everywhere else though, why? Because they have deeper pockets then Rogers.

If the Jays were ever purchased by MLSE, it would be the best thing to happen for that organization and its fans.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

The Futures Game Was Black | FanGraphs Baseball

Bud Norris is going to be upset.

 

[Nineteen67]

I know I'm suppose to be impressed by this big collection of Yankee pitching prospects but I see a lot of guys with more question marks than answers. Most of their top arms coming into the year have been disappointments outside of Sheffield who is definitely a stud.

-Abreu is living off 2016 and has failed to impress since when he's actually been on the field. Yennsy Diaz is pretty much the same guy but minus the gopher balls so far. Currently on DL where he has been a regular the past 2 years.
-Chance Adams hasn't impressed me much this year and is looking more like a back end starter.
-Medina is a 19 year old in short season A ball that has a live fastball but command that is nowhere to be found. Any comparison to Luis Severino ends with the first name and a big heater. Eric Pardinho does laps around this kid.
-Perez had a solid year in 2017 but not that impressive when you realize he was a 21 year old in Low A. He's now on the DL after being brutal in the FSL.
-Acevado likely ends up in the bullpen due to his lack of durability and inability to go deep into games. DL regular over the years
-Tate doesn't have the greatest upside and there is questions if his future remains in the pen. Also Currently on the DL. If he was drafted in the 3rd round and his name was Patrick Murphy I wonder how much hype he would get....
-Sauer is a recent 2nd round pick out of high school that has potential but he's only had a handful of starts to his name so far.
-Schmidt is coming off Tommy John surgery and thrown all of 12 innings so far. Wait and see at this point if the hype is warranted.
-Loaisiga actually had an impressive year but that shoulder trouble is very concerning. Also have to wonder about a guy that hasn't had a gradual innings buildup and how he gets from 30 innings in 2017 to a guy who is taking a regular spot in the rotation anytime soon. He would be a classic sell high candidate if not for the bad shoulder.
-Stephan was promsing at lower levels but has hit a bit of a wall at AA. Living dangerously with the amount of fly balls he allows.
-Deivi Garcia...now that's intriguing. This is a guy that interests me more than anyone on this list if we were to deal Happ to the Yankees. Swing and miss stuff and is rather young for his level.


I'd definitely be wanting access to all the Yankee medical reports so we don't get the Kenny Williams treatment. I wouldn't trust Cashman to be straight up about things and definitely not when dealing with a division rival.

I know. With their crumby prospects, scouting and development, in 15 years they’ll go through a stretch where they miss the playoffs for 1 or 2 years.

 

[Nineteen67]

Kawhi, Tavares......

....can MLSE please just buy the Jays already?

That kawhi guy sure is messing up the radio today.