Half-Assed GDT: Blues Vegas: Do or Die

[542365]

Kyrou should have taken the man on the last goal. Zero effort to stop the play. He stood there watching, even had time to look around. Krug skated from 10 feet behind him and almost got there but still no reaction from Kyrou. No reaction but to look. We can bag on Krug all we want, at least he cares and gave some effort to defend. We won't make the playoffs as long as we have players standing around watching the other teams score.

And don't give me BS that he was playing the slot. His gut reaction should be to close the distance to the puck carrier and stop the play. No active stick, nothing. Pathetic.

You’ve quite literally never played the game of hockey. It is abundantly clear from this. He’s literally the only Blues player where he’s supposed to be and he’s getting blamed It’s f***ing moronic.

 

[Majorityof1]

I don't mind shortening benches as most team do but playing 11 & 7 was dumb IMO unless someone was really banged up playing because then it puts in bide if someone happens such as losing Sunny or say for some reason they give Schenn an instigator. I get it if player x is banged up.

We did lose Sunny. We didn't lose because we had too few forwards. Also the opposite could happen. What if Parayko goes down running 12-6 and suddenly you need to cover his 23 minutes a game while still sheltering Krug and Perunovich. That extra D could come in handy there. The critique of 11-7 seems reactionary to the result. Its been praised by the fan base numerous times in the past.

 

[joe galiba]

We did lose Sunny. We didn't lose because we had too few forwards. Also the opposite could happen. What if Parayko goes down running 12-6 and suddenly you need to cover his 23 minutes a game while still sheltering Krug and Perunovich. That extra D could come in handy there. The critique of 11-7 seems reactionary to the result. Its been praised by the fan base numerous times in the past.

plus, our forwards played well in the third

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

We did lose Sunny. We didn't lose because we had too few forwards. Also the opposite could happen. What if Parayko goes down running 12-6 and suddenly you need to cover his 23 minutes a game while still sheltering Krug and Perunovich. That extra D could come in handy there. The critique of 11-7 seems reactionary to the result. Its been praised by the fan base numerous times in the past.

I remember the 2022 playoffs, ran 11-7 after Krug went down so Perunovich could be the PPQB, and it worked like a charm with 4 PP goals against Minny in games 4-6. That said, it didn't work out quite as well in the Colorado series and it was abandoned in games 5-6.

 

[Xerloris]

No he wasn't. He got the toughest defensive deployment outside Parayko and did not look out of place. He showed flashes of offensive talent with his smart pinches and ability to get back. He struggled in transition and had some unforced turnovers. People jumped on those and created a narrative he was bad. But he wasn't.

I don't agree with that. He turned the puck over a lot because he couldn't make a pass, couldn't even just clear the zone a lot of the time.

If I were in Binner's shoes last night, I'd have been livid if Kyrou made me take an uncontested low-to-high slot one timer (with time to hold the puck and make a deke if I exploded out fast) instead of having me deal with an uncontested shooter from an angle. Here are some screenshots to capture the play development starting from the moment the puck dribbles out from the puck battle and we become fully screwed:

View attachment 841654

Kyrou made the absolutely correct decision not to chase Marchessault behind the goal line here. He drited to the puck-side post following him, then put on the brakes and returns to the top of the crease:

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You can't tell on screenshots, but he has his head on a swivel between the puck carrier and Theodore at the top of the circles. Watch the video and watch his head if you want to see him looking at the play developing in the slot area. His stick is positioned to the passing lane and then he drifts out directly toward the passing lane:

View attachment 841660

He remains close enough to Marchessault to keep him at a decent angle from the net rather than bailing on the puck to closely check Theodore:

View attachment 841664

The shot he gave Marchessault allowed Binner to RVH to a butterfly on a slight puck movement. Chasing that puck carrier would have resulted in a wide open slot chance requiring a hard push off the post from the goalie. The goalie almost certainly arrives late on that type of play and if he doesn't, Theodore had the time/space to hesitate and/or change the angle of release to force an overslide. I don't think I've ever met a goalie that would prefer the 2nd option.

This wasn't some elite defensive play by Kyrou, but it was miles away from a poor play. A poor angle uncontested shot was absolutely the best outcome we were going to get after Buch and Krug both engaged below the goal line and then lost the puck battle.

I mostly agree with the assessment but IMO it doesn't appear Binnington trusted Kyrou to block the pass attempt if it had been made. If he had trusted it then I think he would have played the shot more aggressively.

 

[LogosBlue]

You’ve quite literally never played the game of hockey. It is abundantly clear from this. He’s literally the only Blues player where he’s supposed to be and he’s getting blamed It’s f***ing moronic.

Your right. He did a great job standing there watching. Kyrou is AWESOME!!!!

 

[Majorityof1]

Your right. He did a great job standing there watching. Kyrou is AWESOME!!!!

Who is a player you think is good at D?

Because if they are actually good, I can go and grab screen shots from goals against where they are standing still guarding a passing lane or dangerous area of the ice. Because that is how you play defense.

Running around like a chicken with your head cut off, leaving good ice or open players is awful defense.

 

[LogosBlue]

Who is a player you think is good at D?

Because if they are actually good, I can go and grab screen shots from goals against where they are standing still guarding a passing lane or dangerous area of the ice. Because that is how you play defense.

Running around like a chicken with your head cut off, leaving good ice or open players is awful defense.

Well, Kyrou of course. I'd be surprised if he didn't win the Selke this year.

 

[Majorityof1]

Well, Kyrou of course. I'd be surprised if he didn't win the Selke this year.

Show me one person who said he was a Selke level defender? You can't name a good D. You can only bash Kyrou and be snarky. Fair enough. Noted.

 

[Sgt Schultz]

Show me one person who said he was a Selke level defender? You can't name a good D. You can only bash Kyrou and be snarky. Fair enough. Noted.

I was just getting ready to ask whether Binnington should have full confidence in anyone on our roster to take away a passing lane to the high slot, a cross-ice pass to somebody waiting to tap the puck in, or properly defend an odd-man rush?

Kyrou defended that situation about as well as anyone could, let alone a forward. He took away the passing lane and positioned himself to forced the puck carrier to shoot from a tough angle.

The two problems were Schenn and Krug both chasing a puck and single Knight behind the net in a 3 on 3 situation and the fact that the guy taking the tough angle shot was a guy named Marchessault. The first of those problems is compounded by the second.

​

 

[Brian39]

I don't agree with that. He turned the puck over a lot because he couldn't make a pass, couldn't even just clear the zone a lot of the time.

I mostly agree with the assessment but IMO it doesn't appear Binnington trusted Kyrou to block the pass attempt if it had been made. If he had trusted it then I think he would have played the shot more aggressively.

Binner was off his angle a touch, but he is always going to go into RVH there even if there is no passing option (which is the correct save selection on a puck carrier bringing the puck around the net to a poor angle above the goal line).

I'm confident that this would have been Binner's save selection at this point if you just remove Theodore from the equation completely.

It doesn't matter how much you 'trust' the defender in the passing lane. As a goalie you can't completely disregard the possibility of a pass unless the target is actively being checked. With the time and space the puck carrier and the potential recipient had, there is just no way to 100% cutoff that passing lane. Without a checker on Theodore, March had the option to either make a pass toward his forehand (in front of Kyrou and out of reach) or make an area pass behind Kyrou toward the hash marks if Kyrou aggressively challenged to cut off the passing lane toward Theodore's forehand. Kyrou's positioning wasn't perfect and he clearly isn't doing as good a job as a D man would do at clogging that lane. But even 'perfect' coverage there wouldn't allow Binner to explode out and sell out for a shot.

'Perfect' coverage in that situation just simply can't fully remove Theodore as a potential pass recipient. The only way to remove Theodore completely would have been for Kyrou to fully abandon the net front and directly check Theodore. But that would have left Marchessault fully free to walk into the slot with time and space and is obviously not the correct play. Binner was always going to have to respect the possibility of a pass in that situation once Buch and Krug gave the Knights an all-the-time-in-the-world 2 on 1.

I think Binner's mistake wasn't a lack of depth, but was a somewhat poor execution of the RVH-to-butterfly transition. He never got big and left a bit too much open far side by being a bit off the angle at the time of release. I'm not blaming him for that goal at all. That shot goes in a decent chunk of the time and (like Kyrou) Buch and Krug left him in a tough spot. That was not at all a bad goal even if Binner didn't execute his save selection flawlessly. But I don't think that Kyrou's (in)ability to fully clog the passing lane is what caused the small mistake in positioning and I do think that his save selection was correct.

If I was running the video review of that play, my focus would be entirely on Buch and Krug miscommunication to both attack the puck carrier, the decision for neither to peel off back to the slot, and then the fact that both went into the puck battle trying to one-hand the puck before both taking the body and ignoring the puck. Those were the mistakes made on that play and once those happened everything else was damage control. I wouldn't be hard on Binner's small mistake in execution and I'd praise Kyrou for not leaving good ice to puck chase (which has been a big issue for him) and making an effort to take the pass without letting March get himself to a better angle.

 

[Reality Czech]

Your right. He did a great job standing there watching. Kyrou is AWESOME!!!!

It's crazy to see the lengths some people will go to defend Kyrou around here. While the winning goal wasn't solely his fault, I'm not buying the argument that he did the best he could like some people are saying. You don't let a 40 goal scorer just walk in uncontested like that. If anything Kyrou looked indecisive as if he didn't know what to do. I think he absolutely should have challenged the shooter and forced him to make the pass, especially after looking at the picture Brian posted. Couple that with the bad passes he was making all game, then I'd say it wasn't his best performance. But hey at least he had a 2-3 game hot streak after being MIA for a month.

Then again, Thomas and Buch sucked for most of the game as well. Our best non-Binnington players didn't get it done in the biggest game of if the year. Close but no cigar.

 

[Brian39]

It's crazy to see the lengths some people will go to defend Kyrou around here. While the winning goal wasn't solely his fault, I'm not buying the argument that he did the best he could like some people are saying. You don't let a 40 goal scorer just walk in uncontested like that. If anything Kyrou looked indecisive as if he didn't know what to do. I think he absolutely should have challenged the shooter and forced him to make the pass, especially after looking at the picture Brian posted. Couple that with the bad passes he was making all game, then I'd say it wasn't his best performance. But hey at least he had a 2-3 game hot streak after being MIA for a month.

Then again, Thomas and Buch sucked for most of the game as well. Our best non-Binnington players didn't get it done in the biggest game of if the year. Close but no cigar.

"Always chase the puck carrier because he is a good shooter" is absolutely godawful defensive strategy. Any player that defends with that mindset at the expense of one-timers from the most dangerous spot of the ice is going to be absolutely despised by the goaltenders on his team.

A 40 goal scorer shooting from a bad angle is overwhelmingly a better outcome than a low-to-high low slot one-timer. A 40 goal scorer shooting from a bad angle is overwhelmingly a better outcome than a worse shooter being 1-on-0 with the goalie (with time) in the low slot.

"Forcing him to make the pass" resulting in the highest of high danger chances is absolutely insane defensive strategy.

 

[BlueDream]

We did lose Sunny. We didn't lose because we had too few forwards. Also the opposite could happen. What if Parayko goes down running 12-6 and suddenly you need to cover his 23 minutes a game while still sheltering Krug and Perunovich. That extra D could come in handy there. The critique of 11-7 seems reactionary to the result. Its been praised by the fan base numerous times in the past.

Not from me. I’ve always criticized 11 and 7 in the past. Just making this post to show consistency, and it’s not just because they lost.

The Blues have always been at their best when they roll 4 lines and have an effective 4th line. Going 11 and 7 hinders that.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

It's crazy to see the lengths some people will go to defend Kyrou around here.

It’s crazier the lengths some people go to completely bury Kyrou for any and every small miscue he makes.

Hell, there’s even someone who tried to claim he was demoted to the 4th line against Ottawa.

 

[Eldon Reid]

We did lose Sunny. We didn't lose because we had too few forwards. Also the opposite could happen. What if Parayko goes down running 12-6 and suddenly you need to cover his 23 minutes a game while still sheltering Krug and Perunovich. That extra D could come in handy there. The critique of 11-7 seems reactionary to the result. Its been praised by the fan base numerous times in the past.

Again time and place for 11-7 IMO. Playing a physical team like Vegas isn't where you play 11-7. Playing less physical style of game is where that belongs.

I personally am not a big fan of 11-7 unless dman is banged up. You can get away with it against certain teams that aren't as physical. But in a game where your season is on the line I think it didn't help us against them.

As @BlueDream said, it hinders what the Blues did the best which was roll 4 lines.

 

[Xerloris]

Ultimately it doesn't matter what Kyrou did or didn't do because the blame is solely on the two dumbasses behind the net.

 

[GoldenSeal]

While Kyrou has his negatives, his positives have been helping the team. Coaching and Drew needs to do a better job of asset management on the ice.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Please don't be ACL

Damnit

 

[Celtic Note]

Not from me. I’ve always criticized 11 and 7 in the past. Just making this post to show consistency, and it’s not just because they lost.

The Blues have always been at their best when they roll 4 lines and have an effective 4th line. Going 11 and 7 hinders that.

I don’t think 11 & 7 hurts much here and there, but it certainly is not a good mid to long term strategy.

 

[Drubilly]

Damnit

Way to go bruh

 

[joe galiba]

my top observation from the game
it is freaking cold sitting there after getting soaked walking to the game

 

[AjaxManifesto]

Not too bummed about this loss. I don't see us as playoff bound this year and if we sneak in, I don't see 25 and 18 leading us to victory past the 1st round. They have elite skill, but lack the heart and ability to motivate others IMO.

We need more Jake Neighbor, Toro, and Sunny types on this team. Lots of heart, a bit of skill, and a will to put it all on the line. We also need better D. Our goaltending has been outstanding this year. In general, we need a culture change. We could go many different directions. I think our up-and-coming youth could create something special with a little help from respected vets. I look forward how this develops.

Since the departure of ROR and DP57, I don't really know who we are as a team. ROR was all about work ethic on and off the ice. DP57 was all about doing whatever it takes to win (sometimes he made poor choices, but I always got the sense that he was doing whatever he could to win). Even Chief gave us a bit of identity: blunt, hard-nosed, accountable. That's all gone.

 

[ort]

This isn't a very fun team to be a fan of right now.

 

[fishsandwichpatrol]

Well that was probably our last realistic chance to make the playoffs. Oh well. Another year of frustrating inconsistency.