Pre-Game Talk: Blues @ Cats: There's a Game Tonight I Guess.

[LogosBlue]

I’m not a very big Saad fan

I'm sure you'll grow eventually.

 

[Thallis]

Impossible

I truly hate Rivers.

I've been mostly watching the opponents' broadcasts because of him. Had to watch ours tonight. We should launch him into the sun

 

[Robb_K]

A shame that The Blues were offside on that beautiful Buchnevich goal. He'd otherwise have scored a hat trick tonight.

 

[Blueston]

You dislike him or feel meh about him? He is kind of a meh player to me, but he doesn't tend to hurt you much. I don't think he is a critical piece by any stretch.

he is so meh i question what he could be a critical piece of?

 

[Spektre]

Schenn is the definition of meh

 

[Mike Liut]

So much parity in the nhl this year

 

[Blueston]

So much parity in the nhl this year

Yep. Flat cap killed many of the good teams while not really helping that many of the bad teams yet.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Thomas- 32 Games-12G-23A-35P-+12

 

[jura]

one of those games curved glass did some damage

 

[CaliforniaBlues310]

Yep. Flat cap killed many of the good teams while not really helping that many of the bad teams yet.

So ready for the cap to jump up again. It’s a joke that this has happened. All the “parity” is just a front for what it really is, just a bunch of average hockey teams.

You can’t convince me that Boston team last year would’ve done won 60+ games in any other season.

 

[Majorityof1]

So ready for the cap to jump up again. It’s a joke that this has happened. All the “parity” is just a front for what it really is, just a bunch of average hockey teams.

You can’t convince me that Boston team last year would’ve done won 60+ games in any other season.

Yes, that is what parity means. If all teams are equal, ie, parity, then by definition, they'd all be average. I'm not sure what the complaint is.

Nor am I sure how raising the cap would change that. It's not like we are losing the best players in the world to other leagues. We are losing depth, maybe. But more cap would also be given equally as well. So theoretically, it would still be parity. Unless you raise the cap so much only the leafs and Rangers could afford to be cap teams

 

[Blueston]

Yes, that is what parity means. If all teams are equal, ie, parity, then by definition, they'd all be average. I'm not sure what the complaint is.

Nor am I sure how raising the cap would change that. It's not like we are losing the best players in the world to other leagues. We are losing depth, maybe. But more cap would also be given equally as well. So theoretically, it would still be parity. Unless you raise the cap so much only the leafs and Rangers could afford to be cap teams

There is a fine line between parity and mediocrity. Keeping rangers from building super team may be good, but forcing so many top guys out of Colorado and Tampa and elsewhere bc of flat cap feels like we overshoot parity and end up in mediocrity.

 

[Majorityof1]

There is a fine line between parity and mediocrity. Keeping rangers from building super team may be good, but forcing so many top guys out of Colorado and Tampa and elsewhere bc of flat cap feels like we overshoot parity and end up in mediocrity.

But the league as a whole isn't losing talent. The talent is just paid less and/or forced to relocate. The talent is still there. Sure we get less games where two behemoths square off, but we also get less games where a sacrificial lamb is sent to the altar. So how is the product as a whole worse?

Parity means mediocrity. But it also means the "dominant" team changes. And it's not about who lucks in to the best player in the world (edmonton) or who has the most cash (tor, mont, chi, nyr). It's about who can smartly identify talent (Dal), or who can be a bit ruthless, manipulative (Vegas). The fact that TB had its moment, capitalized as much as it could and now is making room for new teams, to me is a good thing. It creates room for other fan bases to feel that rise.

 

[LogosBlue]

Parity also means that small market teams actually have a shot at putting together a dominant team instead of getting steamrolled every year because of budget.

 

[Xerloris]

There is a fine line between parity and mediocrity. Keeping rangers from building super team may be good, but forcing so many top guys out of Colorado and Tampa and elsewhere bc of flat cap feels like we overshoot parity and end up in mediocrity.

To many teams spreads the talent to thin also gives us mediocrity. I miss the 90's when every team had superstars. Just as many goon jerseys in the stands as star player jerseys.

 

[Brian39]

There is a fine line between parity and mediocrity. Keeping rangers from building super team may be good, but forcing so many top guys out of Colorado and Tampa and elsewhere bc of flat cap feels like we overshoot parity and end up in mediocrity.

Both of those teams kept their top guys at the expense of being able to retain depth.

The top 8 players by TOI per game on their Cup run are still in Colorado. So are the top 6 point producers. Kadri was their biggest loss and he had an amazing season. But he was absolutely behind MacKinnon, Rants, Landy, Makar, and Toews in importance. I think there is an argument that the Avs viewed Nichuskin and Byram as more important too. I don't think losing a 31 year old 2C following a Cup win is a flat cap casualty. Even with a 'normal' cap, I think Colorado would have balked at the term he wanted and let him get overpaid in UFA.

Kucherov, Point, Stamkos, Hedman, Vasi, and Sergachev all remain in Tampa. There is an argument that McDonagh was in the tail end of that group (ahead of Sergachev), but he was still very much in their 2nd tier of guys. The rest of their losses have been the Killorns and Palats of the world who are clearly outside the 'top guy' tier. A non-flat cap would have allowed Tampa to keep 1-2 more guys, but they kept their top group.

Every player on these two teams with any argument as a top 10 player at their position has remained (and both of those teams have at least 3 such guys). I have a hard time calling that overshooting parity into mediocrity.

Tampa went to 3 straight Finals in the flat cap era. And they were good (and aging) before that run. They won the President's trophy in 2019 and were #3 in the NHL in 2018. That's a 5 year stretch as a dominant franchise (2017/18 through 2021/22). Then in 2022/23 (year 3 of cap stagnation) they were "only" a 98 point team and then this season they are sitting just outside the playoffs despite their Vezina-caliber #1 goalie missing substantial time from a back surgery.

Colorado was a 109 point team following their Cup win. They didn't have Landy all season, but also didn't stash him on LTIR to spend that money elsewhere because they believed he might be able to come back. They are now utilizing that LTIR to fill that hole and are currently on pace for 104 points. They aren't the absolutely dominant wagon they were in 2021/22, but they are still a pretty damn good team.

The flat cap has absolutely made it harder on these teams to maintain the depth, but I don't see their descents as any more pronounced than the elite teams under a 'normal' cap.

 

[PJJJP]

Yeah we are a one line team offensively. The top line looked great but I don't think they can do that every game. The Schenn line was invisible and Schenn himself looks significantly worse. At least it's fun watching Thomas/Kyrou/Buch when they are having themselves a game

 

[Blueston]

Both of those teams kept their top guys at the expense of being able to retain depth.

The top 8 players by TOI per game on their Cup run are still in Colorado. So are the top 6 point producers. Kadri was their biggest loss and he had an amazing season. But he was absolutely behind MacKinnon, Rants, Landy, Makar, and Toews in importance. I think there is an argument that the Avs viewed Nichuskin and Byram as more important too. I don't think losing a 31 year old 2C following a Cup win is a flat cap casualty. Even with a 'normal' cap, I think Colorado would have balked at the term he wanted and let him get overpaid in UFA.

Kucherov, Point, Stamkos, Hedman, Vasi, and Sergachev all remain in Tampa. There is an argument that McDonagh was in the tail end of that group (ahead of Sergachev), but he was still very much in their 2nd tier of guys. The rest of their losses have been the Killorns and Palats of the world who are clearly outside the 'top guy' tier. A non-flat cap would have allowed Tampa to keep 1-2 more guys, but they kept their top group.

Every player on these two teams with any argument as a top 10 player at their position has remained (and both of those teams have at least 3 such guys). I have a hard time calling that overshooting parity into mediocrity.

Tampa went to 3 straight Finals in the flat cap era. And they were good (and aging) before that run. They won the President's trophy in 2019 and were #3 in the NHL in 2018. That's a 5 year stretch as a dominant franchise (2017/18 through 2021/22). Then in 2022/23 (year 3 of cap stagnation) they were "only" a 98 point team and then this season they are sitting just outside the playoffs despite their Vezina-caliber #1 goalie missing substantial time from a back surgery.

Colorado was a 109 point team following their Cup win. They didn't have Landy all season, but also didn't stash him on LTIR to spend that money elsewhere because they believed he might be able to come back. They are now utilizing that LTIR to fill that hole and are currently on pace for 104 points. They aren't the absolutely dominant wagon they were in 2021/22, but they are still a pretty damn good team.

The flat cap has absolutely made it harder on these teams to maintain the depth, but I don't see their descents as any more pronounced than the elite teams under a 'normal' cap.

Those teams would be much better if they had more depth. Cap would hurt a bit, but you look at guys Tampa has had to move on from and tell me they didn’t hurt. Colorado too. Yes, they kept tight guys probably, but they were forced into painful choices and are worse because of it.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Yeah we are a one line team offensively. The top line looked great but I don't think they can do that every game. The Schenn line was invisible and Schenn himself looks significantly worse. At least it's fun watching Thomas/Kyrou/Buch when they are having themselves a game

Schenn is quickly becoming a complete liability as a center on the team. They really need to put him on the wing. The issue with that is we don't have a viable 3rd line C if we move Schenn to Wing.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Is Schenn playing hurt?

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

Is Schenn playing hurt?

Over 30 and physical playstyle, he's pretty much guaranteed to be playing hurt on some level.

 

[BlueDream]

Those teams would be much better if they had more depth. Cap would hurt a bit, but you look at guys Tampa has had to move on from and tell me they didn’t hurt. Colorado too. Yes, they kept tight guys probably, but they were forced into painful choices and are worse because of it.

The parity isn’t a result of the flat cap. For anyone that follows the NFL, you can take a look at their season this year and notice even more parity. Lots of mediocre teams and very few great ones, if any.

For the most part, that’s just sports these days. It’s hard to be dominant, every team has access to so much film and info to be able to beat an opponent. Combine that with how much randomness can occur especially in a game like hockey and you can get whacky results. I don’t think it’s really much of a surprise, nor is it really that different from most other seasons. You still have plenty of elite teams that are ahead of the pack.