Biggest snub '06 Canada. Staal, Savard, Crosby or Spezza

[Langdon Alger]

No he was not on the Olympic team.

Yeah, I looked it up to make sure. I thought he did play for Canada, but maybe that was the 2004 World Cup. Or perhaps he never did and I just made that up.

I don’t remember the 2006 Olympics well, but looking at the roster, I’m guessing lack of speed may have been an issue.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Yeah, I looked it up to make sure. I thought he did play for Canada, but maybe that was the 2004 World Cup. Or perhaps he never did and I just made that up.

I don’t remember the 2006 Olympics well, but looking at the roster, I’m guessing lack of speed may have been an issue.

Maltby did play at the 2004 World Cup.

Plus he was on Canada's 2005 World Hockey Championship team.

 

[LordNeverLose]

All 4 should have made it over guys like Draper, Smyth, and Doan

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Was that the worst team Canada has sent on best-on-best tournament?

 

[tony d]

Spezza. Crosby and Staal were both rookies then so I understand that omission. Spezza was in the midst of a 90 point season in 05-06 so him.

 

[86Habs]

Staal would have been a better selection at the time than Crosby. Staal was top 5 in points when the roster was announced, and his game has always lended itself well to shifting over to the wing. Our center depth was (on paper) really good with Sakic and peak Lecavalier, Thornton and Richards down the middle. Crosby was ~PPG at the time the roster was announced, but really turned it on in the second half. In hindsight Crosby looks like the more notable omission, but at the time Staal would have fit better on that particular team. Guys like Spezza rarely make Canadian best on best teams; he wasn't displacing any of the four centers already on the roster, and at the time wasn't experienced in playing the wing.

Of course, there is no reason why both Staal and Crosby couldn't have both been on the team, along with Paul Kariya and Patrick Marleau. But, while Smyth, Doan, Bertuzzi and Draper shouldn't have been named to the team in the first place, the guys who we were counting on (Thornton, St. Louis, Lecavalier, Iginla, etc.) didn't do a whole h*** of a lot. And, the defense was in shambles with Niedermayer missing the tournament and Pronger and Blake playing injured. Boyle would have been a good add to replace Niedermayer, but Gretzky went with Bryan McCabe instead. Bouwmeester was the best puck mover on defense and ended up being our best overall defenseman that tournament, which isn't saying much.

 

[NyQuil]

It wouldn't have been unprecedented to have a rookie in there.

Eric Lindros played for the 1991 Canada Cup team before he played a game in the NHL.

 

[Mickey Marner]

Crosby or Staal. Staal had more points at the time of the Olympics, but Crosby led the league in scoring post-Olympics IIRC.

 

[Regal]

Spezza. Crosby and Staal were both rookies then so I understand that omission. Spezza was in the midst of a 90 point season in 05-06 so him.

Staal wasn't a rookie, he played in 03-04 like Spezza. None of the three did anything of note in the league before that season though so track record wasn't really in Spezza's favour

 

[Evergreen]

None of them were snubs. Staal and Spezza were reserves. Crosby had only played 30+ games when the rosters were announced. Savard had a previous career high of 52 points (albeit in 45 games) and was, with all due respect, considered a somewhat one-dimensional player at the time.

The other centers on the team were Thornton (reigning MVP and Art Ross winner), Sakic (who was still producing at a good pace-87 pts-and was much more seasoned than any of the 4 guys listed), Lecavalier (who was right in his prime and considered one of the best players in the world), Brad Richards (coming off a 91-pt season and a recent Conn Smyth winner), and Draper (who wasn't really comparable to any of these 4 guys because he was asked to play an entirely different role).

The only guy you could argue should have been left off the team was Draper, but he was only on the team to play a shutdown role.

 

[JackSlater]

Staal would have been a better selection at the time than Crosby. Staal was top 5 in points when the roster was announced, and his game has always lended itself well to shifting over to the wing. Our center depth was (on paper) really good with Sakic and peak Lecavalier, Thornton and Richards down the middle. Crosby was ~PPG at the time the roster was announced, but really turned it on in the second half. In hindsight Crosby looks like the more notable omission, but at the time Staal would have fit better on that particular team. Guys like Spezza rarely make Canadian best on best teams; he wasn't displacing any of the four centers already on the roster, and at the time wasn't experienced in playing the wing.

Of course, there is no reason why both Staal and Crosby couldn't have both been on the team, along with Paul Kariya and Patrick Marleau. But, while Smyth, Doan, Bertuzzi and Draper shouldn't have been named to the team in the first place, the guys who we were counting on (Thornton, St. Louis, Lecavalier, Iginla, etc.) didn't do a whole h*** of a lot. And, the defense was in shambles with Niedermayer missing the tournament and Pronger and Blake playing injured. Boyle would have been a good add to replace Niedermayer, but Gretzky went with Bryan McCabe instead. Bouwmeester was the best puck mover on defense and ended up being our best overall defenseman that tournament, which isn't saying much.

Correct. People often say it was Crosby, but I really do think that it was Staal. Points aren't everything, but here is where these four players were at the point when the team was announced:

Staal: 47 in 33
Crosby: 33 in 33
Spezza: 47 in 30
Savard: 45 in 34

Crosby was far behind the others. To be fair he did have the least help on that Pittsburgh team, but not enough to bridge that gap. None of them was good defensively. Even though Crosby was behind each of the other three in scoring, I would make him the second pick after Staal. Canada was very deep at centre (Thornton, Sakic and Lecavalier were going to get three of the centre spots over any of the four players in this thread) so ability to play wing would be important. Spezza and especially Savard seem least likely to move to that spot, and Canada usually prefers goal scorers on the wing.

The forwards were not the biggest issue for Canada though. The biggest issue that need to be fixed was defence. Boyle and Campbell should have been on the main roster over McCabe and Foote. Overall the group of defencemen was very poorly suited to the large ice.

 

[86Habs]

None of them were snubs. Staal and Spezza were reserves. Crosby had only played 30+ games when the rosters were announced. Savard had a previous career high of 52 points (albeit in 45 games) and was, with all due respect, considered a somewhat one-dimensional player at the time.

The other centers on the team were Thornton (reigning MVP and Art Ross winner), Sakic (who was still producing at a good pace-87 pts-and was much more seasoned than any of the 4 guys listed), Lecavalier (who was right in his prime and considered one of the best players in the world), Brad Richards (coming off a 91-pt season and a recent Conn Smyth winner), and Draper (who wasn't really comparable to any of these 4 guys because he was asked to play an entirely different role).

The only guy you could argue should have been left off the team was Draper, but he was only on the team to play a shutdown role.

My recollection is that Draper played almost exclusively at LW at even strength during the tournament though, primarily with Sakic and Iginla and then finding his way down the lineup when we were really starving for offense. My presumption is that Quinn wanted to add a defensive element to that line. I also don't remember Quinn employing shut-down/matchup lines during his stint as Team Canada coach (2002, 2004, 2006), at least not like Babcock did. Regardless, Draper wasn't a bad selection in 2006 as the guy could skate and kill penalties with the best of them. He also had a ton of experience on international ice. Smyth, Bertuzzi and Doan were much worse selections imo. You're correct in that Staal/Crosby wouldn't displace him. They needed to displace Thornton / Sakic / Lecavalier / Richards (not happening), or get Gretzky/Quinn comfortable that they could move to the wing and remain effective.

Correct. People often say it was Crosby, but I really do think that it was Staal. Points aren't everything, but here is where these four players were at the point when the team was announced:

Staal: 47 in 33
Crosby: 33 in 33
Spezza: 47 in 30
Savard: 45 in 34

Crosby was far behind the others. To be fair he did have the least help on that Pittsburgh team, but not enough to bridge that gap. None of them was good defensively. Even though Crosby was behind each of the other three in scoring, I would make him the second pick after Staal. Canada was very deep at centre (Thornton, Sakic and Lecavalier were going to get three of the centre spots over any of the four players in this thread) so ability to play wing would be important. Spezza and especially Savard seem least likely to move to that spot, and Canada usually prefers goal scorers on the wing.

The forwards were not the biggest issue for Canada though. The biggest issue that need to be fixed was defence. Boyle and Campbell should have been on the main roster over McCabe and Foote. Overall the group of defencemen was very poorly suited to the large ice.

The defense was very bad. 2006 is the iteration of Team Canada that I feel could have benefited the most from attention to detail around roster selection and the appropriate strategy for the ice surface. They could have replaced any number of the forwards with superior players and it wouldn't have made a difference.

 

[Mr. Met]

What about Scott Niedermayer and Dan Boyle

 

[86Habs]

What about Scott Niedermayer and Dan Boyle

Niedermayer was injured and couldn't play. Huge loss. Boyle was on the taxi squad and should have replaced Niedermayer on the final roster, but McCabe was chosen instead. Not sure if that counts as a snub, but it was certainly a huge mistake.

 

[Evergreen]

What about Scott Niedermayer and Dan Boyle

Niedermayer was selected but injured. Same with Jovanovski. Boyle was probably not deemed sufficiently adept defensively. He could have perhaps been on the team over McCabe but I think some of the Toronto media creates pressure to select McCabe instead.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Niedermayer was injured and couldn't play. Huge loss. Boyle was on the taxi squad and should have replaced Niedermayer on the final roster, but McCabe was chosen instead. Not sure if that counts as a snub, but it was certainly a huge mistake.

McCabe was originally on the taxi squad so he was next up to be chosen as a replacement. Plus prior to the Olympics he was having a great season in Toronto and with Pat Quinn as the Leafs coach and Canada's coach, he had to be high on the list of Defenseman.

 

[Lebowski]

That was classic TC trying to overthink things.

 

[86Habs]

McCabe was originally on the taxi squad so he was next up to be chosen as a replacement. Plus prior to the Olympics he was having a great season in Toronto and with Pat Quinn as the Leafs coach and Canada's coach, he had to be high on the list of Defenseman.

Replacing an injured Niedermayer with McCabe is like fitting a square peg into a round hole. McCabe was in way over his head at the Olympics and didn't bring any missing element to the team that, say Rob Blake, wasn't already providing. The biggest problems Team Canada faced in 2006 were skating ability on the back end, and the the ability to move the puck out of the defensive zone and up to the forwards. While Boyle was not on Niedermayer's level, he possessed a similar skillset and was the best option to replace him (Campbell being the second best option, probably) and there is no question Gretzky & Quinn should have gone down that route. Gretzky was loyal to a fault, and Quinn was familiar with McCabe from coaching him in Toronto. That's a mistake that doesn't get made by the Yzerman/Babcock team.

 

[nowhereman]

All 4 should have made it over guys like Draper, Smyth, and Doan

Just reading that makes my brain hurt. I can't fathom that a universe exists where Sidney Crosby was cut from a team in favor of Kris Draper and Ryan Smyth. By the end of 2006, Crosby was the best player in the world.

 

[Addison Rae]

Lol at Doan, Nash, and Bertuzzi over some of those guys

Rick Nash literally won the Richard the year before...

He was a fine pick.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Replacing an injured Niedermayer with McCabe is like fitting a square peg into a round hole. McCabe was in way over his head at the Olympics and didn't bring any missing element to the team that, say Rob Blake, wasn't already providing. The biggest problems Team Canada faced in 2006 were skating ability on the back end, and the the ability to move the puck out of the defensive zone and up to the forwards. While Boyle was not on Niedermayer's level, he possessed a similar skillset and was the best option to replace him (Campbell being the second best option, probably) and there is no question Gretzky & Quinn should have gone down that route. Gretzky was loyal to a fault, and Quinn was familiar with McCabe from coaching him in Toronto. That's a mistake that doesn't get made by the Yzerman/Babcock team.

If Quinn really wanted McCabe on the team he would have been named to the original roster and on the taxi squad and a replacement for someone else.

 

[86Habs]

If Quinn really wanted McCabe on the team he would have been named to the original roster and on the taxi squad and a replacement for someone else.

I just don't agree that, because someone was originally named to the taxi squad, they're automatically the player best suited to replace someone who's injured. Frankly, that's a stupid way to make a decision. If Gretzky/Quinn had put a bit of thought into figuring out what skillset needed to be replaced when Niedermayer was injured, they would have easily come to the conclusion that McCabe wasn't the right guy for the job and Boyle probably was. Or perhaps that McCabe shouldn't have been on the taxi squad in the first place. His style of play was really a horrible fit for international ice and refereeing. This all happened before the Olympics even began.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I just don't agree that, because someone was originally named to the taxi squad, they're automatically the player best suited to replace someone who's injured. Frankly, that's a stupid way to make a decision. If Gretzky/Quinn had put a bit of thought into figuring out what skillset needed to be replaced when Niedermayer was injured, they would have easily come to the conclusion that McCabe wasn't the right guy for the job and Boyle probably was. Or perhaps that McCabe shouldn't have been on the taxi squad in the first place. His style of play was really a horrible fit for international ice and refereeing. This all happened before the Olympics even began.

Wasn't it said if a player was on the taxi squad they would be named as a replacement for a player who was on the main roster if they got injured?

 

[86Habs]

Wasn't it said if a player was on the taxi squad they would be named as a replacement for a player who was on the main roster if they got injured?

Maybe/probably(?) All I know/remember is that Bouwmeester and McCabe were named as reserves at some point either on the same day the roster was announced (late December 2005) or sometime in January. In early February Niedermayer and Jovanovksi pulled out, and were replaced by Bouwmeester and McCabe. I don't believe the taxi squad had travelled to Torino by that point, but I could be wrong.

All I know is:
- Niedermayer getting injured was a devastating loss to the team, particularly considering the tournament was played on the international ice
- None of the other defensemen who eventually made the roster were good replacements for him, in terms of what Niedermayer was expected to have brought to the team
- Boyle would have been the best possible replacement for Niedermayer based on his skillset/experience
- Aside from Bouwmeester, the remainder of the defensemen were either slow, stay-at-home guys (Regehr, Foote), injured (Blake, Pronger), or ineffective (McCabe, Redden)
- My opinion is that the poorly constructed and poor performing defense group was the primary reason we fared so poorly in 2006; much moreso than a few bad selections at forward

We obviously can't change history. I really do believe under better leadership we would have had a better chance of winning, even with Niedermayer missing the tournament.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

It was obvious Crosby was one of the best players in the league from his very first game. Due to seniority reasons he was not going to get picked that year though.