Biggest Chokers Showdown: Toronto Maple Leafs VS San Jose Sharks

[BruinLVGA]

The Joe Thornton/Patrick Marleau San Jose Sharks are widely known as one of, if not, the biggest choking cores in NHL history, but are they any worse than the current Mitch Marner/Auston Matthews Maple Leafs core? The current Leafs have won 1 playoff series in 8 years whereas the Sharks actually managed to get past the first round a few times and even made it to the SC Finals.

The results speak for themselves, this current Leaf core has performed even worse than the Sharks in the post-season which is flabbergasting considering all the talent they have on the team.

Since the end of the dead puck era, so from 2005-06 to now, the Maple Leafs have won 1 playoffs series, while the San Jose Sharks have won 14 series and have been once to the Stanley Cup finals too. I think that the level of choke shown by the Leafs hasn‘t got equals in the past 19 years, not even close.

 

[BruinLVGA]

When was the last time a Canadian franchise had an actual shot at the cup? Hard to hold it against Toronto when they don't have even a punchers chance at a cup.

Montreal was in the Stanley Cup finals in 2020-21.

 

[Warden of the North]

Aside from the Montreal series when have the Leafs ever been a favourite?

According to Hfboards they should be swept every series by whoever plays them.

 

[lextune]

I mean. Is Steve Yzerman considered a choker? He didn't achieve much until being way older than Matthews is right now.

Yzerman was in the conference finals as a 21 year old, and again as 22 year old, only losing both years to the Gretzky Oilers dynasty.

 

[tfwnogf]

Aside from the Montreal series when have the Leafs ever been a favourite?

According to Hfboards they should be swept every series by whoever plays them.

I think by now we all expect every Leafs series to go to game 7

 

[patnyrnyg]

Yzerman was in the conference finals as a 21 year old, and again as 22 year old, only losing both years to the Gretzky Oilers dynasty.

In those days, the Norris was significantly weaker than the Smythe. Put Winnipeg in the Norris back then and they would have won that division every year. There was at least 1 year when the division winner was sub-.500.

 

[Just Rude]

OmG wHy iS eVeRyThInG aLwAyS aBoUt tHe LeAfS?

 

[Jmo89]

Ehhh, depends. Two different styles of choke artists.

The Sharks had tons of VERY good regular seasons, finishing 1st or 2nd in their conference. They would win some playoff rounds, but could never get over the hump and win a Cup. They also had a lot of embarrassing losses to low seeds, or blown series leads.

The Leafs had good regular seasons, but have never been the favourites in their division (except the Canadian Covid year). Unlike the Sharks, they don’t win rounds, but choke by losing every single Game 7 imaginable.

If you look at any individual playoff run, Sharks are the bigger choker. But if you look at their playoff careers as wholes during their ‘choking era’, I think it’s the Leafs.

There were at least a few years during the Thornton era where the Sharks went into the playoffs as a presumptive favorite for the cup.

Of this whole Toronto cycle of failure, the only two times they had legit path were 2019 (if they get through Boston they go to the finals in their place and should beat St. Louis), and probably 2021 with the Canadian division setting them up for an easy path to the semifinals. Otherwise they always had Tampa, Washington, or Boston in their way.

Both solid analysis. The joys of being a Leafs fan.

San Jose had higher expectations but alot more success. The Leafs have failed to meet or exceed expectations a single time and have one of the worst chokes ever in 2021.

 

[thegazelle]

Montreal was in the Stanley Cup finals in 2020-21.

Yup, and this century alone...

Calgary was in the cup final in 2004
Edmonton was in the cup final in 2006
Ottawa was in the cup final in 2007
Vancouver was in the cup final in 2011

And the aforementioned Canadiens in 2021

Edmonton and Vancouver have a chance for getting there this year, though it will be stiff competition in the next round.

 

[PocketNines]

I don't think it's entirely fair to say San Jose was the clear favourite in every season they were in despite where they finished. Chicago (2010), Vancouver (2011) and LA (2013) were hardly pushovers.

At the same time, when San Jose did fail, they did so spectacularly. Getting ousted 4-1 to the Blues in 2012 who were then completely demolished by the Kings in a sweep wasn't exactly a good look. The aforementioned 2010 series against Chicago can be argued both ways. Chicago finished only 1 point behind them in the standing but to not even get a game out of them?

Then we can never forget the reverse sweep.

I suppose the best way I'd asset is the Sharks choked when it mattered more or just died quickly. The Leafs always managed to hang around but could never go anywhere important.

The Blues were two points from winning the Presidents Trophy in 2012 and as a Blues fan I was annoyed we even lost that first game in OT. The Kings were on a juggernaut run from the second half of the season forward and they crushed everyone. Although, they did send a 4th line scrub named "Dwayne King" or some other stupid unimportant bullshit player in Game One to board Alex Pietrangelo face first into the wall and the series was done in that moment.

 

[JFleegs]

Carolina has entered the chat...

 

[Gorskyontario]

In those days, the Norris was significantly weaker than the Smythe. Put Winnipeg in the Norris back then and they would have won that division every year. There was at least 1 year when the division winner was sub-.500.

The leafs were in the Norris and they blew a 3-1 series lead to Yzerman.

 

[Voight]

Sharks have choked in spectacular fashion (like the shorkening reverse sweep never forget) but Leafs have made choking an art form. No other team does it as often, or as beautifully.

Also going 1-8 in the WCF, back to back years.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I'm pretty far from a Thornton and Marleau fan. That being said they could win rounds.

The leafs in the last 20(10 years of being terrible, 10 years of being chokers) years is arguably the most pathetic franchise in the history of the entire NHL.

I’m no historian and couldn’t care enough to look at it myself but has there been another franchise who’s gone 20 years with just a single series win?

 

[Gorskyontario]

I’m no historian and couldn’t care enough to look at it myself but has there been another franchise who’s gone 20 years with just a single series win?

Whalers/Hurricanes from 1980 until 2002. Only won a series in 86 or 87.

 

[patnyrnyg]

Whalers/Hurricanes from 1980 until 2002. Only won a series in 86 or 87.

86 then lost to Montreal in 2nd round. In 87, they won the division and lost in 1st round.

I’m no historian and couldn’t care enough to look at it myself but has there been another franchise who’s gone 20 years with just a single series win?

Isles were in Conf finals in 93 and then didnt win another series until 2016.

 

[Gorskyontario]

86 then lost to Montreal in 2nd round. In 87, they won the division and lost in 1st round.


Isles were in Conf finals in 93 and then didnt win another series until 2016.

Reminds me of another one. Panthers from 96 until 2022. I remember them and the isles playing to end the loser cup in 2016.

 

[Stickpucker]

Only time I used this.

Leafs AINEC

Who else could lose to a zamboni driver?!

 

[WarriorofTime]

In those days, the Norris was significantly weaker than the Smythe. Put Winnipeg in the Norris back then and they would have won that division every year. There was at least 1 year when the division winner was sub-.500.

Haven't seen a walkback this extreme since Michael Jackson was in his prime

 

[Barrie22]

Only leaf fans and extreme nut jobs would think 27 wins is better then 80 wins. And 1 playoff series win is better then 4 conference finals and a Stanley cup finals.

 

[PeE eL DuBoiS]

Choke? We Can and We Will.

I'm not fully convinced Nylander or Matthews are set in stone as chokers for their careers. They show flashes of playoff greatness every 2-3 games. Just need better work ethic and consistency in between when the puck doesn't go their way. They need to start taking their bodies to the net more. If not, in a few more years, I'm good with the career-wide playoff choker labels. Matthews plays C, Nylander wing, so I have different expectations for them.

Tavares is good for an occasional goal but he's largely cooked at this point in his career based on age. You can certainly label him as a playoff underperformer at the very least, probably a choker. At this point, though, nobody should really expect much out of him in terms of carrying a team. I personally wouldn't call a donkey out for not being a horse, when I know it's not a horse and we've been calling it a donkey for 3 years.

Marner now has zero playoff expectations beside choking in the playoffs. Dude just wants to play N/S pond hockey and wilds under physical pressure, clutch moments and if contact is imminent. He is and will be a career choker when the games matter.

Reilly had a really strong playoff showing last year. This year he was absolutely terrible for most of the series. In any case, he's a long-tenured member of this core and I'm definitely on the choker side of the fence.

 

[PaulD]

Non leaf fan here...their story isn't finished yet.

Premature. Jmho

Some stories have a very predictable finish.

 

[PaulD]

Choke? We Can and We Will.

I'm not fully convinced Nylander or Matthews are set in stone as chokers for their careers. They show flashes of playoff greatness every 2-3 games. Just need better work ethic and consistency in between when the puck doesn'tgo their way. They need to start taking their bodies to the net more. If not, in a few more years, I'm good with the career-wide playoff choker labels.

Tavares is good for an occasional goal but he's largely cooked at this point in his career based on age. You can certainly label him as a playoff underperformer at the very least, probably a choker. At this point, though, nobody should really expect much out of him in terms of carrying a team. I personally wouldn't call a donkey out for not being a horse, when I know it's not a horse and we've been calling it a donkey for 3 years.

Marner now has zero playoff expectations beside choking in the playoffs. Dude just wants to play N/S pond hockey and wilds under physical pressure, clutch moments and if contact is imminent. He is and will be a career choker when the games matter.

I thought it was about the team.
Whether Matthews and Nykander are chokers or not. They play for a choking organization.
Im sure Matthews would have a ring if he was on Vegas or Tampa Bay all these years.
But the ckoking leafs with Shanahan the poser as President. He literally turned the team over the Kyke Dubas and Sheldon Keeefe . Lol
How many years now is it now, where they they have not been able to get a goalie better than Freddy, or a top pair better than Rielly and who ever?
Management in Toronto are the big chokers.

 

[Artorius Horus T]

I think i'd still pick Sharks, for the biggest chokers vs Leafs,

Leafs really never been a powerhouse, or a true contender Sharks were, (Leafs always missing key elements)
Sharks roster was deep, with amazing D with good goaltending, coaching too,
not to mention insane 1st line and awesome top 6 . - good bottom 6 to boost

Prime Thornton and Marleau were scary good, prime Jumbo Joe > Auston Matthews, no contest

Sharks was a powerhouse, a real contender for many many years, but always choked in the playoffs
for some reason.


SHARKS SHOULD HAVE WON THE CUP, AT LEAST TWICE..

 

[PeE eL DuBoiS]

I thought it was about the team.
Whether Matthews and Nykander are chokers or not. They play for a choking organization.
Im sure Matthews would have a ring if he was on Vegas or Tampa Bay all these years.
But the ckoking leafs with Shanahan the poser as President. He literally turned the team over the Kyke Dubas and Sheldon Keeefe . Lol
How many years now is it now, where they they have not been able to get a goalie better than Freddy, or a top pair better than Rielly and who ever?
Management in Toronto are the big chokers.

I agree the current Team over the last number of years, as an organization, deserves a choker label. But context is important. The SJS team noted were actually considered contenders. Beside about a dozen Leafs fans on this board (the ego, chip on the shoulder type), a few homer media folks, and some fans that don't actually watch hockey, I'm not sure this team has actually been considered a serious contender for the last few years. So with actual expectations considered, I still need to go with the Marleau / Thornton era Sharks.