Confirmed with Link: Big changes, Nonis and co let go (Press conference 2pm)

[ULF_55]

2 years ago a new CEO came in and completely blew up the Australian operation that was underperforming significantly. Literally all the execs except the CFO. A month into his tenure

They got back on track amazingly fast. Not that it always works though. It's a ballsy move. But he looked like a champ.

So that would be like firing all the assistant coaches, and changing the draft to go for skill first, not size or position.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Something about Shanny I don't trust.

that's okay. you are entitled to your opinion

He's a calculated dude, I'll give him that. But everyone is praising him for something that needed to be done at the beginning of this season.

in the NHL - i would assume everyone is a calculated person. I would gather most people in a position of power would have to know how to politic, and calculate and do what needs to be done. I will never understand why this is always stated as if it is bad or evil, or somehow.

In his rookie year, he set original 6 franchise records in sucking. As soon as he came in, the awful Gunner trade happened and Robi signing followed. Turning our d core into a joke. Some may say those are Nonis moves but it of course needed to be cleared by Shanny. And if not, his stupidity for allowing Nonis to make any calls. By keeping Nonis and the coaches that needed to go, he had himself easy fallguys when the inevitable happened this year. The bottom line is he produced record breaking losing results in his first year .

Here is the thing. the "awful Gunner" trade was so horrible this is why several teams wanted Polak, including the team that originally traded for him. As much as you keep going around from thread to thread, stating how "horrible it was to have Polak, he's like Tim Gleason 2.0." he was a commodity at deadline.. So he couldn't have been that awful, even considering the numbers that he had.

As well as - again - I stated this from day one. I don't blame Shanahan for keeping the people he had around for more more year. And no matter how many people bleat how the year was wasted, and records for sucking happened , you simply don't come in and destroy everything. The perfect example of this was Vancouver. (good AND bad).

Linden changed two things. GM. Coach.
They re-made the playoffs, but I think they are holding on to their core for dear life. I'm not of the mind that they're going to go anywhere further, and they'll have to dismantle it. But Linden didn't come in and torch the Canucks organization to the ground.

No matter what people want to say - MLSE as it currently exists has only been around for two years. and in those two years they have seen a playoff a team, and a team that was less than 18 days from clinching a playoff spot. I am not going to blame anyone for going "well. if it's only a few things here or there, can't we see this is the case before we do anything."

And while people want to bleat "well. we could have had Laviolette or Trotz - well you know this year we have more enough choices (if we're going through the NHL route). And by all reports, they were looking at other coaching options, didn't get the one they wanted, so they stuck with the one the had. Which - makes sense to me. Why fire someone if the person you want isn't available and you don't like the other options.


Not to mention the other things he obviously did this year. Look at everyone who got fired. (which was - everyone)
Video coach - gone. (why, i don't know)
Strength & Conditioning (obvious reasons)
98% of the scouting staff (draft records were audited, Hunter came in and surveyed, and did his thing, you just don't blow it up with out research)

Day 1. Shanahan says he's not the gm. he's going to allow everyone to basically prove themselves, and show him what's what.. He went through the entire organization systematically and he has just cause. not "well they "Looked" bad"

Now the question is was it a calculated move to ensure the tank in a crazy draft year? Trading or top defensive dman for Tim Gleason 2.0. The odd timing for a coach and complete system switch. If that's the case, he has essentially set the team up to fail. Which I'm not necessarily against but........ I have a problem with calling out players on competing when you yourself are actively trying to stifle exactly that. All while plummeting player value.

No. that's on the players. I am sorry
And what you - and others - keep forgetting, that the Leafs were losing with Carlyle here anyway. they had lost 8 in a row (after winning 10). then the last two games, Carlyle gets fired, and Horachek basically doesn't allow them to do whatever they want, and it's "well Horachek is the bad guy?"

I'm not saying Horachek is the worlds greatest coach on the planet, but it drives me up the wall, that it's "the coaches fault."

As others have mentioned, he's a good politician. He's doing a great job at covering his ass thoroughly. Now that the people he's not accountable for are gone, he has everyone sold on the fact we will suck for 5 years. Hopefully guaranteeing his job for a lengthy period. And 3/4s of this board is patting him on the back for it.

No. He did not "sell" people that we will suck for five years. (news flash, we've already sucked for 10), and it drives me nuts that people think that the collective "we" are stupid.

If you remove Kessel, Phaneuf, Bozak, Lupul [Kadri], off this roster, - they are not going to be good.

if they go the Buffalo route (which, they really don't have to, if they keep those 4-5 players around, and basically say "you keep doing you). you're going to be bad.

Depending on whom they collect via trading and ufa signings, at most - you're what? Dallas this year? Philadelphia? Arizona (pre Mike Smith forgot how to play goal and then they blew up the team?), Florida? Colorado? Fair to Middling?


There is no indication that anyone on the Marlies is going to come up. If they do, there's no indication they'll pull a Calgary. I am tired of the team living off high stats that can't sustain themselves, and it really seems to me (and if I'm wrong, I am sorry) that's what you and a few other people want. because when they go "well lol he's covering his ass and making people believe the team will take a long time to be well." What is he supposed to say? it will take five years to be ready? this isn't a freaking cake.

it took LA 9 years. Chicago 10, Islanders 5 (since Tavares was drafted). Florida about 13 years (and they still missed). I think (and I was saying this before Shanahan said anything), it will take about 2 ELC cycles. (6 years) before we start gunning for anything (and that's if everything goes our way. and we'e the Leafs so the chances of that happening is slim to none).

So if he was trying to compete this year he failed miserably.

And if he was tanking purposely, I don't like how he has handled it. Hopefully my gut is wrong but to say the least, my optimism is cautious

Or. he was giving Nonis a chance to, you know, prove himself. I'm not saying that everything he did was right. but Shanahan is not the GM. and even though he has final say, I am not even going to take it that every single phone call Nonis made had to be okayed by Shanahan. Why? Because he said that wasn't going to be the case. I think at a certain point it did become like that. and I'm guessing around January. when everyone got traded, because you tell me in what world Nonis trades existing contracts for picks? (regardless if we were free falling or not)

I am not saying every "happy, happy" is Shanahan and every piss poor decision is Nonis. i think the majority of the decisions were Nonis, Shanahan then stepped in, said, do this, and then again, 89 % of the Toronto Maple Leafs lost their jobs because the problem was deeper than Shanahan originally thought.

And if you want to have a negative thought, or be "it's so political" that's fine. Again. I would rather someone have all the information they need to do what they need to do, then to come in and assume what needed to be blown up because "we knew".

but. as an organization - whoever took over, always moved too fast, and it hurt us in the long run. and I for the life of me, can not understand, why people are getting so bent out of shape that someone finally takes their time to lose one year, to potentially save us 10++ years down the line. Shanahan could be flat out wrong, but seriously.

 

[yubbers]

I still disagree with you on many points but solid read

 

[yubbers]

Oh, it's Daisy

Got fooled by the new avi

 

[burpsalot]

Something about Shanny I don't trust.

He's a calculated dude, I'll give him that. But everyone is praising him for something that needed to be done at the beginning of this season.

In his rookie year, he set original 6 franchise records in sucking. As soon as he came in, the awful Gunner trade happened and Robi signing followed. Turning our d core into a joke. Some may say those are Nonis moves but it of course needed to be cleared by Shanny. And if not, his stupidity for allowing Nonis to make any calls. By keeping Nonis and the coaches that needed to go, he had himself easy fallguys when the inevitable happened this year. The bottom line is he produced record breaking losing results in his first year .

Now the question is was it a calculated move to ensure the tank in a crazy draft year? Trading or top defensive dman for Tim Gleason 2.0. The odd timing for a coach and complete system switch. If that's the case, he has essentially set the team up to fail. Which I'm not necessarily against but........ I have a problem with calling out players on competing when you yourself are actively trying to stifle exactly that. All while plummeting player value.

As others have mentioned, he's a good politician. He's doing a great job at covering his ass thoroughly. Now that the people he's not accountable for are gone, he has everyone sold on the fact we will suck for 5 years. Hopefully guaranteeing his job for a lengthy period. And 3/4s of this board is patting him on the back for it.

So if he was trying to compete this year he failed miserably.

And if he was tanking purposely, I don't like how he has handled it. Hopefully my gut is wrong but to say the least, my optimism is cautious

How long is his contract? 5, 6 years? So if he loses his job next week he'll be paid for how many more years?

I'm sure the most important thing on his mind right now is covering his ass & guaranteeing his job for a lengthy period.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Oh, it's Daisy

Got fooled by the new avi

that made me giggle in real life, just.

Oh! it's Daisy.... okay!

and like i said you can disagree. you can not like him, not trust him, not whatever. that's up to you. I don't operate like that. I was open-minded to Burke (basically until he got fired, and then i formulated my opinion), I was open-minded on Nonis, and I'm going to be open-minded on Shanahan. because that's me. if people wanna hate him or think he's dumb or shady or whatever other crazy stuff is out there, go ahead. (shrug)

 

[hockeywiz542]

According to Elliotte Friedman of Rogers Sportsnet, the Toronto Maple Leafs might consider hiring someone like former Washington Capitals GM George McPhee as a more experienced NHL person working the phones. There are some guys known for their scouting backgrounds who have connections to this group. The obvious first example is LA’s Vice-President of Hockey Operations Mike Futa, who is from Toronto. His previous job as GM of OHL Owen Sound brought him into contact with both Hunter and Dubas, who was then an agent. (He supposedly knows Sean Burke well, too.) Another would be Nashville Predators assistant GM Paul Fenton. It turns out Fenton and Hunter played together (and depending on the accuracy of the internet, may have been linemates) for a brief time with the Calgary Flames. Toronto might also try to interview both Julien Brisebois and Pat Verbeek from the Tampa Bay Lightning.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-nhl-awards-edition/

7. Now that the season is over Sean Burke will look for a new team. Toronto will be a pursuer, although not for the GM position. Burke has a history with Lou Lamoriello, so there is some curiosity to see if the Devils are interested in adding anyone. If Arizona does not get one of the top two picks, could that affect Maloney’s future? If so, does that mean Burke stays? Don’t know if there is a franchise with more on the line at the lottery than the Coyotes.

9. The clear message from Brendan Shanahan’s Monday media conference was Toronto is willing to be unconventional to get the right people. If the Maple Leafs want you, they’ll find a spot and make it work. Rob Blake was the first choice, but he’s said several times it is not a fit. Shanahan remains the final decision-maker, but it’s clear Mark Hunter has big clout (Shanahan said Hunter made the decision to clean house in the scouting department) and so do Kyle Dubas and Brandon Pridham. The question becomes, who fits, because they are either willing or know the people involved? One theory would be someone like George McPhee, who can fill Dave Nonis’ position as a more experienced NHL person working the phones.

10. Then, there are some guys known for their scouting backgrounds who have connections to this group. The obvious first example is LA’s Vice-President of Hockey Operations Mike Futa, who is from Toronto. His previous job as GM of OHL Owen Sound brought him into contact with both Hunter and Dubas, who was then an agent. (He supposedly knows Sean Burke well, too, although I can’t confirm that.) Couldn’t imagine it would be too difficult for them to get along. Another would be Nashville assistant GM Paul Fenton, who’s done a very good job there. It turns out Fenton and Hunter played together (and depending on the accuracy of the internet, may have been linemates) for a brief time with the Calgary Flames. In an organization now stressing drafting and development, those two have a strong history of it.

11. No confirmation, but other teams would be surprised if Toronto did not at least try to interview both Julien BriseBois and Pat Verbeek from Tampa. No doubt there will be more. Verbeek played with both Shanahan (in New Jersey) and Hunter (in Hartford). As you can imagine, there were a lot of names tossed around yesterday, including a few suggestions Hunter will eventually take the job himself. But someone’s going to have to do all the interviews, and he probably doesn’t want that fun. Finally, a few Ontario-based scouts say they still hear Dale Hunter’s name for some role. I only include it because Shanahan’s respect for the family is obvious.

 

[The Hockey Life]

ICYMI and don't want to watch the video in full: http://alongtheboards.com/2015/04/y...ing-for-toronto-maple-leafs-brendan-shanahan/

 

[Erdinger]

2 years ago a new CEO came in and completely blew up the Australian operation that was underperforming significantly. Literally all the execs except the CFO. A month into his tenure

They got back on track amazingly fast. Not that it always works though. It's a ballsy move. But he looked like a champ.

That's what good CEO's do. 3 years from now he'll be out also unless he's some old style Jack Welch GE type that no board will fire due to short term shareholder pressure.

 

[Cor]

Daisy just absolutley destroyed this thread.

I am 100% behind Shanahan. He essentially said at his presser, he supported Nonis last summer and allowed him to make the moves. Gunnar-Polak, Franson-Gorges(fell apart), and the other transactions were Nonis. (It's funny, our two best acquisitions were just after Kyle Dubas was hired - Santorelli and Winnik, wonder if that's a coincidence)

Also, can we stop pretending that Gunnarsson was some kind of great player? He really wasn't. Our defense was still horrendous with him. Gunnar was incredibly soft in front of our net, and in the corners, and although he was steady defensively, he isn't some great defensive force.

 

[yubbers]

Silly Cor

What happened to your boy this year without him?

And hi!

 

[Cor]

Silly Cor

What happened to your boy this year without him?

And hi!

Phaneuf isn't "my boy"... that was Clarkson

He was one of our better players down the stretch, had a similar offensive season, was much more disciplined, committed a significant amount of less turnovers.

When we were doing well, he was our best player. Obviously when the team sank, his numbers did as well.

Quite frankly, being away from Gunnar made Phaneuf more effective. He had less turnovers, likely do due Franson being in better positions than Gunnar would have.

 

[PuckMagi]

Everyone always talks about how Kessel has never played with a good center... but I rarely hear people talk about how Phaneuf has never played with another top pairing defender.

Franson is barely an NHLer (Nashville fans rank him as their #7 or #8).

Gunnarson was a third pairing guy who maybe eventually improved to a 2nd pairing guy (#4 at best).

Kostka and Holzer weren't NHLers when they played with Phaneuf.

Phaneuf also made Franson look like a $5mil player.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

Everyone always talks about how Kessel has never played with a good center... but I rarely hear people talk about how Phaneuf has never played with another top pairing defender.

Franson is barely an NHLer (Nashville fans rank him as their #7 or #8).

Gunnarson was a third pairing guy who maybe eventually improved to a 2nd pairing guy (#4 at best).

Kostka and Holzer weren't NHLers when they played with Phaneuf.

Phaneuf also made Franson look like a $5mil player.

Not sure about that. I mean, I agree that Kessel has been more focused on over the years but I've seen and read it from plenty of people that'll say Dion would be much more effective with a decent partner, which is true about any player. He's good, just not quite good enough to carry a pairing on his own like the Doughty's,Keiths etc.

 

[HamiltonOHL]

besides steve Kasper and Jim Hughes and GM and coaching staff anyone know exactly which scouts were let go..

 

[stymie]

Shanny did a good job disarming the media by not blaming them.
Letting them off the hook yet putting a spotlight on them at the same time.
Clever move. Media will have to back off for a good while.

 

[hockeywiz542]

besides steve kasper and jim hughes and gm and coaching staff anyone know exactly which scouts were let go..

 

[HamiltonOHL]

Scouts still employed by #leafs: Mike Penny, Tom Watt, George Armstrong, John Lilley, Garth Malarchuk, Thommie Bergman, Nikolai Ladygin.

safe to say everyone else is gone?

 

[hockeywiz542]

Former Toronto Maple Leafs goalie coach Rick St. Croix chatted with Ben Ennis following the Leafs coaching and GM dismissals.

http://pmd.fan590.com/audio_on_demand-3/Rick-St.Croix-with-Ben-Ennis-BE-20150412-Interview.mp3

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

but. as an organization - whoever took over, always moved too fast, and it hurt us in the long run. and I for the life of me, can not understand, why people are getting so bent out of shape that someone finally takes their time to lose one year, to potentially save us 10++ years down the line. Shanahan could be flat out wrong, but seriously.

Actually that's exactly what Burke did. Many here complained about it. The only "rush" he did was the Kessel trade but those come at you out of the blue and can't be planned for. Still he sat and assessed for a year, so this isn't exactly new.

I've had to do that in a couple organizations now and can't really imagine how you'd do it otherwise unless you were already inside the organization for some time. You have to sit back and watch how everyone functions.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Everyone always talks about how Kessel has never played with a good center... but I rarely hear people talk about how Phaneuf has never played with another top pairing defender.

Franson is barely an NHLer (Nashville fans rank him as their #7 or #8).

Gunnarson was a third pairing guy who maybe eventually improved to a 2nd pairing guy (#4 at best).

Kostka and Holzer weren't NHLers when they played with Phaneuf.

Phaneuf also made Franson look like a $5mil player.

I mention it every time someone tries to pretend we built around Dion and Phil. It's laughable really. Both have obvious needs but when have we ever built around that?

 

[leafs in five]

I mention it every time someone tries to pretend we built around Dion and Phil. It's laughable really. Both have obvious needs but when have we ever built around that?

what does it mean to "build around" guys like Phil? was that not the rationale for the Bozak extension? the party line was that the first line is great at scoring, Phil likes carrying the puck, Bozak doesn't carry the puck, Phil likes offense, Bozak doesn't have much skill so he must be good at defence. seems like "building around" Phil to me.

the Leafs should have been acquiring as much talent as possible, instead they were doing exactly what to me looked like an attempt to “build around†their key players. again, they decided that the first line was fine, the second line was going to be fine with Kadri and Lupul, and went out and spent money and assets on guys they thought would complement what they had. Clarkson, Bolland, Bernier, an attempt at Gorges.

i mean the other part of this is that it's tough to add guys that are as good or better than the two guys you're paying 15 mil a year for, especially when one of them cost you two top 10 picks. and all the more so when you've dealt picks and prospects and dished out big contracts for players that are meant to fill the idiosyncratic holes created by a team that you (front office hockey guy with years of experience) know is good despite the fact that they get killed all the time.

 

[leafs in five]

Still he sat and assessed for a year, so this isn't exactly new.

he traded Tlusty a week after he got the job.

 

[hullsy47]

he traded Tlusty a week after he got the job.

i like peter hollands quote about shanny being a person ud follow into battle,never had that feeling about burke /nonis .....after awhile burke was like a carney huckster ,,,,and nonis well he looked like general custer
burke /nonis aint had nothing on JFJ ......lets be realistic ,

 

[Pookie]

i like peter hollands quote about shanny being a person ud follow into battle,never had that feeling about burke /nonis .....after awhile burke was like a carney huckster ,,,,and nonis well he looked like general custer
burke /nonis aint had nothing on JFJ ......lets be realistic ,

Well, the Flames are following Burke into the playoffs.

From a management perspective, no one has followed Shanahan anywhere yet. We just have to hope his map is better than the others.