Best top 9, Sweden or Finland
- Thread starter MrOT
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Buck Naked
Can't-Stand-Ya
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The difference is..
Could go either way. That center depth on Finland is scary good though.
Could go either way. That center depth on Finland is scary good though.
Ben White
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Sweden clearly
Pettersson >~ Barkov
Nylander ~ Rantanen
Forsberg >> Maccelli
Bratt > Laine
Zibanejad ~ Aho
Kempe > Granlund
Raymond >~ Teravainen
Lindholm < Hintz
Eriksson Ek > Haula
Pettersson >~ Barkov
Nylander ~ Rantanen
Forsberg >> Maccelli
Bratt > Laine
Zibanejad ~ Aho
Kempe > Granlund
Raymond >~ Teravainen
Lindholm < Hintz
Eriksson Ek > Haula
Hey Ben White I’m a big fan of your threads, but you do know Zibanejad took the year off, right? Aho is better this year
Ben White
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Yeah I agree, haven’t watched that many Rangers games this year but in general Aho is better except for when Zibby has one of his famous hot streaks (however those can be season long sometimes)
biturbo19
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With Finland having to scrape all the way down to guys like Granlund and Haula...this is clearly Sweden. And by quite a bit.
Given this and the immense difference on D I think the years of overly hyping Finland’s progress - though some hype was warranted of course - are over.
Took a pill in Sbisa
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Buck Naked
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Come on! Nylander is not ~ Rantanen.
Ben White
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In what way is he not this season and last? Rantanen plays on MacKinnon’s wing, Nylander on Tavares’. Rantanen gets fed from the blue line by Makar, Nylander by Rielly. Last season Rantanen got almost 4 minutes more ice time per game than Nylander. This season I’d say Nylander is at least on par with Rantanen.
Buck Naked
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Rantanen scored 55+50 last season! Nylander's never been close to that. He's having a down year right now and is still outproducing Nylander, who's been having the season of his life.
Ben White
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Context matters though which I wrote about in my post, let Willy play with Matthews full time and give him top line minutes and MAYBE we can start having the discussion you’re having comparing production vs production straight up.
Ben White
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Also Nylander leads his team in points while Rantanen is 19 points behind MacKinnon.
Buck Naked
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Absolutely, context matters. Have you seen Rantanen the past few years when MacKinnon's missed games? There's a pretty large sample size. Rantanen had 9 goals, 16 assists and a plus-minus of +19 in 17 games without MacKinnon in 21/22. In 22/23 he had 9 goals, 4 assists and a plus-minus of +6 in 11 games. Still outproducing Nylander.. You gonna bring Makar into this now too?
Ben White
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Yeah that’s impressive numbers. Small sample size though. Well maybe I have to give you that Nylander hasn’t been playing on this level long enough to generally be considered on par with Rantanen, even though he certainly is this season. Two things makes me wanna go against the (probable) consensus in this comparison: First I think Nylander passes the eye test this season for a player who looks like he’s taken a step in his development and that this level is likely to continue for a couple of more seasons (even though we’ll have to wait and see), also I’m generally skeptical towards ranking clearly second fiddle playing players too high compared to others in less favorable situations, like Rantanen and Draisaitl.
Barkov, Rantanen, Aho and Hintz hold their own with the best 4 Swedes. If Laine is healthy and on his game he can as well. But the depth goes to Sweden after that.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
This is the first year where Aho is better than Zibanejad, but yeah Zib is complete trash this year
Last 4yrs:
Rantanen
260gp 149g 181a 330p playoffs 37gp 17g 31a 48p
Nylander
262gp 114g 157a 271p playoffs 30gp 14g 15a 29p
"Fed by MacKinnon" my ass. When MacK has been injured, Rantanen has always kept on producing... Maybe start following him and not assume things?
What about 2018-2019 and 2020-2021? Keyboard-cowboy - try to check stats before you start telling us shit! Also - How much better is Zibs 2-way? There is more to hockey than PP-points. And when we go check advanced stats like CF%, Aho has been better for yrs...
Or should we check their respective first 8yrs in NHL, as Aho has been here for that long?
Aho
566gp 236g 287a 523p +88
Zib
491gp 135g 174a 309p -37
Zibanejad`s been better somewhere in between, but was much worse his first 8yrs and is worse now, so how the hell is he better?
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I`d restructure Team Finland:
Laine - Barkov - Rantanen
Maccelli - Aho - Hintz
Lehkonen - Granlund - Teräväinen
Sure... Granlund has actually played pretty well this yr after all problems with stillborn, divorce etc. Haula would be on the 4th line. Not all lines play offensive. On a shitty SJ, Granlund is actually 2nd in points with 5p less than Hertl in 10gp less...
Defensively Finland wins by a mile. Barkov, Hintz, Aho, Haula, Granlund, Lehkonen all play 200ft. Sweden has Lindholm and thats it. You know in hockey, you also have to try to prevent goals?
biturbo19
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I don't know where this weird Granlund rehabilitation campaign is coming from or why...But no, being reasonably productive on a complete rolling dumpster fire of a Sharks team playing top minutes and opportunities with zero pressure or expectations is not gonna convince me that he's suddenly some world class player i should weight highly in a comparison like this.
There's a strong odor of, "well someone's gotta score" effect to the whole thing. And he's still soft as a marshmallow and allergic to defensive engagement.
