NYR94
Registered User
I'd say that 92-93 Penguins team is one of the best teams I've seen to not win a Cup. Would have been three in a row for them as well.
I look at the Sens of the last 5 years and I think of the late 70's early 80's Montreal Expos. There's never a sense of urgency because you look at the talent and you just believe it's going to happen. Then things change and you're part of a history thread.I attempted to answer the question statistically here. Ottawa's 2006 season hasn't changed anything obviously. I go with the '80s Flyers and recent Sens as the best unrewarded teams. Most teams that dominate over a moderate period of time tend to be rewarded.
I look at the Sens of the last 5 years and I think of the late 70's early 80's Montreal Expos. There's never a sense of urgency because you look at the talent and you just believe it's going to happen. Then things change and you're part of a history thread.
Unfortunately for Sens fans, they're entering into some unique territory, dominance over a fairly long period with no cup to show for it. Of course, the playoffs are as much a crapshoot as ever.
I was leafing thru an old John Ferguson biography. In that you're a Bobby Hull fan, I pretty well know your opinion of my old favorite. Fergy wasn't much a Hull fan and points a finger at him for some of the Hawks post season problems. It's off topic, but he had some pretty strong opinions about Hull. I wouldn't reccommend you read it, it'd make your blood pressure go up needlessly.For sure. After winning in 61, blackhawks should have won several more from 62 to 71. Were in the finals 5 times (I count being in the last round of the original 6 in 68 & 70 as Finals). Had a power house team with Hull, Mikita, Hall, Pilote, Vasko, Wharram etc. In 63-64, they had 5 players on the fiirst alll star team & one on the second but that year they didn't even make the finals. Seemed to always be out coached & out goalied when the cup was at stake.
I was leafing thru an old John Ferguson biography. In that you're a Bobby Hull fan, I pretty well know your opinion of my old favorite. Fergy wasn't much a Hull fan and points a finger at him for some of the Hawks post season problems. It's off topic, but he had some pretty strong opinions about Hull. I wouldn't reccommend you read it, it'd make your blood pressure go up needlessly.
There were a few things. fergy had his own definition as to what made up a winner, and he considered Hull more of a whiner. Might've had something to do with Fergy mugging him on occasion, but I'm a fan of #22 and I'll see things through those glasses.I think I pointed that finger a while back. Murray didn't want to hear it then, either.
I'd be curious to read what Fergie's specific gripes were.
Doesn't bother me and certainly doesn't change my opinion of either Hull or ferguson. sounds like Mr. ferguson is rewriting history to make himself look good. I have never heard Hull comment on the incident. For sure I never heard him make any comments on Ferguson's wife. Ferguson had absolutely no class and was the first goon of the modern era. Any comments he wakes are not worth listening too. Not wanting Hull on Team Canada is just plain stupid. Sounds like ferguson was the whiner to me.There were a few things. fergy had his own definition as to what made up a winner, and he considered Hull more of a whiner. Might've had something to do with Fergy mugging him on occasion, but I'm a fan of #22 and I'll see things through those glasses.
The Fergy punched him when Hull's jaw was wired story was dealt with. Apparently, Fergy had been suspended for clobbering Hull. fergy claims it was clean check, and he was penalized because of Hull's whining. He claims the fight when Hull was wearing the tinsel happened off of a scramble, Hull came at him, and should appreciate that in the scrumm, Hull was tied up, Fergy had a free shot at him and passed it up. He also mentionned that Hull's wife did thank him for throttling her husband, a story I'd heard but assumed was urban myth.
Fergy claimed that even if Hull hadn;t sigend with the WHA, he didn't want him on Team Canada. Sort of a silly claim, I think, I'd of taken him over JP Parise.
That was the gist of it. remember Murray, don't shoot the messenger.
Doesn't bother me and certainly doesn't change my opinion of either Hull or ferguson. sounds like Mr. ferguson is rewriting history to make himself look good. I have never heard Hull comment on the incident. For sure I never heard him make any comments on Ferguson's wife.
Highly unlikely to be true. I can't imagine Mrs. Hull having a conversation with ferguson at the time. As I remember, she looked pretty happy to be Mrs. Hull at the 72 press conference when the WHA handed Bobby his million dollar signing bonus. This was which was a long time after the Hull Ferguson incident (70-71 was ferguson's last year)He's saying that Hull's wife thanked Ferguson for throttling her husband. Which is too good a story to be true.
The great thing about being a fan is the perspective you saw the events from. Your comments are exactly what mine would've been if my Dad hadn't taken a firm hand to me and made me a fan of the CH.Highly unlikely to be true. I can't imagine Mrs. Hull having a conversation with ferguson at the time. As I remember, she looked pretty happy to be Mrs. Hull at the 72 press conference when the WHA handed Bobby his million dollar signing bonus. This was which was a long time after the Hull Ferguson incident (70-71 was ferguson's last year)
fergusons comments on the incident sure sound like jealous whining. Not only was Hull 100 times the player but he also turned out to be tougher (which supposedly was ferguson's raison d'rtre")
Mcphee, I knew you were trying to get a rise out of me.The great thing about being a fan is the perspective you saw the events from. Your comments are exactly what mine would've been if my Dad hadn't taken a firm hand to me and made me a fan of the CH.
Fergy played on emotion, and yeah, probably went too far at times. I remember him bopping Norm Ullman on the snout during an All Star game. Norm Ulman ?
Bobby Hull was easily the best player in the 60's until Orr came along, though I remember school yard arguements to the contrary. No idea what I used to back up my claims though.
I suspect you know your leg's being pulled here Murray. These books are usually justification of everything a guy's done in his career and I don't take what Fergy says thru Stan Fischler too seriously, just as I wouldn't take Hull's words as gospel. Gotta admit though, in 66 when I was 11, if I was putting a number on my sweater, 22 would've been my choice.
I think kids then would argue about who won the fights. It seemed that every Wednesday, on CTV you got Mtl./Toronto and they were always a mess. Fergy would be chasing someone around, Shack or Brewer, someone would go after him for buzzing Johnny Bower.Mcphee, I knew you were trying to get a rise out of me.
You didn't mention that Fischler wrote the book. Then it is undoubtably mostly fiction and really not worthy of comment. It certainly would not have been read much outside of Montreal.
I am surprised that ferguson would have been your favorite on those Canadian teams with all the skilled players they had.
Here's a couple...
Boston Bruins (late 80's-early/mid 90's)
- made the Stanley Cup Finals twice, loosing both times to the Oilers
- won the Presidents Trophy in 1990
- had 3 consecutive 100 pt seasons
- finished either first or second in their division (flip-flop with Montreal)
Philadelphia Flyers (mid 90's-present)
- made the Stanley Cup Finals once, swept by the Wings
- 7 100 pt seasons since the 1994/95 season
- finished either first or second in their division (flip-flop with New Jersey)
Los Angeles Kings from 88-93
- had Gretzky (nearing the end of his prime) and only got past 2nd round once
- after the Kings lost to Montreal in the finals, they missed the playoffs the next 4 years
There were a few things. fergy had his own definition as to what made up a winner, and he considered Hull more of a whiner. Might've had something to do with Fergy mugging him on occasion, but I'm a fan of #22 and I'll see things through those glasses.
The Fergy punched him when Hull's jaw was wired story was dealt with. Apparently, Fergy had been suspended for clobbering Hull. fergy claims it was clean check, and he was penalized because of Hull's whining. He claims the fight when Hull was wearing the tinsel happened off of a scramble, Hull came at him, and should appreciate that in the scrumm, Hull was tied up, Fergy had a free shot at him and passed it up. He also mentionned that Hull's wife did thank him for throttling her husband, a story I'd heard but assumed was urban myth.
Fergy claimed that even if Hull hadn;t sigend with the WHA, he didn't want him on Team Canada. Sort of a silly claim, I think, I'd of taken him over JP Parise.
That was the gist of it. remember Murray, don't shoot the messenger.
Good point. of course Canada would have been much better in 72 with Orr & Hull.That actually really surprises me. I love Fergy just as much as the next habs fan, but if he actually said this that's upsetting haha. Canada was missing their two best players in that series. Hull was probably still the best forward in the world and no matter how much Fergy hated him he had to understand how good he was and that not putting him on team Canada almost cost them the series. Maybe I'm overestimating Hull and Orr, but I think '72 would have been very different with those two in the lineup. I don't know what Tretiak would have done with Hull's shot since they didn't really use the slap shot much in the soviet union at the time. But I guess that's a completely different thread on its own.
That actually really surprises me. I love Fergy just as much as the next habs fan, but if he actually said this that's upsetting haha. Canada was missing their two best players in that series. Hull was probably still the best forward in the world and no matter how much Fergy hated him he had to understand how good he was and that not putting him on team Canada almost cost them the series. Maybe I'm overestimating Hull and Orr, but I think '72 would have been very different with those two in the lineup. I don't know what Tretiak would have done with Hull's shot since they didn't really use the slap shot much in the soviet union at the time. But I guess that's a completely different thread on its own.
Good point. of course Canada would have been much better in 72 with Orr & Hull.
Keeping Hull off the team was pure politics. The Soviets were soon to find out how good he was. In 74 (the forgotten series) as part of the WHA-Team Canada versus the Soviets Hull was the tops in goals & points (7 and 9), both teams included. In game 5 he scored a first period hat trick.
In Canada cup 76 at age 37, he was tied for most goals at 5 with Zhluktov & had one pont less than the leaders who had 9 (Zhuktov, Orr & Potvin).
There were a few things. fergy had his own definition as to what made up a winner, and he considered Hull more of a whiner. Might've had something to do with Fergy mugging him on occasion, but I'm a fan of #22 and I'll see things through those glasses.
The Fergy punched him when Hull's jaw was wired story was dealt with. Apparently, Fergy had been suspended for clobbering Hull. fergy claims it was clean check, and he was penalized because of Hull's whining. He claims the fight when Hull was wearing the tinsel happened off of a scramble, Hull came at him, and should appreciate that in the scrumm, Hull was tied up, Fergy had a free shot at him and passed it up. He also mentionned that Hull's wife did thank him for throttling her husband, a story I'd heard but assumed was urban myth.
Fergy claimed that even if Hull hadn;t sigend with the WHA, he didn't want him on Team Canada. Sort of a silly claim, I think, I'd of taken him over JP Parise.
That was the gist of it. remember Murray, don't shoot the messenger.