World Cup: Best on Best: Canada is too good (solution?)

[DNA]

The Olympics are never going to adopt the U23 model. That's like saying, hey you have this, your prime product. You should.... kill it.

No, abandoning it entirely by the NHL would be killing it. I suggest saving it. The U24 team in this tournament seemed to be one of its few successes

 

[Xokkeu]

No, abandoning it entirely by the NHL would be killing it. I suggest saving it!

If the NHL abandons it the IOC is not going to do a U23 model. They'll just take the best KHL/AHL*/SHL etc players out there.

USA in the gold medal game with Ryan Hartman and Ryan Lasch is still going to get 15 million viewers. Most Americans barely know who Patrick Kane or Auston Mathews is. They won't care.

 

[DNA]

If the NHL abandons it the IOC is not going to do a U23 model. They'll just take the best KHL/AHL*/SHL etc players out there..

I'm merely suggesting a feasible middle ground. There's far less a possibility of the NHL (and NHLPA) regularly sending their star players halfway around the world during the season to appear on NA TV in the middle of the night to see Canada win every game they play!

 

[Orange Dragon]

I'm merely suggesting a feasible middle ground. There's far less a possibility of the NHL (and NHLPA) regularly sending their star players halfway around the world during the season to appear on NA TV in the middle of the night to see Canada win every game they play!

I doubt this is feasible middle ground for KHL and other European leagues. NHL not participating in the Olympics is opportunity to showcase their players, why would they limit themselves?

 

[Xokkeu]

I'm merely suggesting a feasible middle ground. There's far less a possibility of the NHL (and NHLPA) regularly sending their star players halfway around the world during the season to appear on NA TV in the middle of the night to see Canada win every game they play!

It's only a reasonable offer to the NHL and NHL fans. The rest of the hockey world would be unlikely to find it appealing

 

[Keram]

Oh my god what is wrong with you canadians? Why don´t you enjoy while it lasting? Why have you to be so cocky? I don´t get it why you get with this utter nonsense. I don´t read basketball forums are you americans so bored with USA NT? Or swedes with floorball? I really don´t get this canadian nature Stop whinning about how good you are. It is really anoying. Nothing is eternal. You are not dominating WJC already you won´t be dominating best on best once. Maybe I don´t get it because slovaks don´t dominate any sports but we won WC in street ball hockey in 2013 and 2015 and in 2014 U20,U18,U16 and I was still happy after we won 5th straight gold.

 

[FrankMTL]

Oh my god what is wrong with you canadians? Why don´t you enjoy while it lasting? Why have you to be so cocky? I don´t get it why you get with this utter nonsense. I don´t read basketball forums are you americans so bored with USA NT? Or swedes with floorball? I really don´t get this canadian nature Stop whinning about how good you are. It is really anoying. Nothing is eternal. You are not dominating WJC already you won´t be dominating best on best once. Maybe I don´t get it because slovaks don´t dominate any sports but we won WC in street ball hockey in 2013 and 2015 and in 2014 U20,U18,U16 and I was still happy after we won 5th straight gold.

You know that you don't have to generalize regarding Canadians right? 98% of Canadians on this website haven't said anything or are being humble while the other 2% are gloating. It would be the same with fans of any other country had they won, but there just happens to be a lot of Canadians on this site.

 

[Keram]

You know that you don't have to generalize regarding Canadians right? 98% of Canadians on this website haven't said anything or are being humble while the other 2% are gloating. It would be the same with fans of any other country had they won, but there just happens to be a lot of Canadians on this site.

I read this forum when other countries won. Mostly WJC´s recently. And I don´t read this never. It is really tiring when threads like this poping up or some poeple are bored with domination. They even know before the games it will be cake walk etc. Ok I shouldn´t generalize sorry for that but this sort of crap only write canadians though.

 

[Confucius]

Agreed.. we Canadians pride ourselves on being humble but on hfboards all I ever see are threads on how we need to divide Canada's team up to be fair to the other countries.. pretty sure that is the opposite of humble.

The other countries will catch up.. We should just enjoy this run of dominance instead of acting like it will last forever.

How are they going to catch up? Did you see team N A, there were 11 Canadians on it, that's 11 more coming from a team that may have been 3rd best at this tournament. 11 more players fighting to get a spot on a Championship caliber team. Sure the U S have 12 more up and coming but the current team was last or 2nd last in this tournament.

Add the 3 or 4 players that should have been on the Canadian team that couldn't because of injury. Krykeee this team had no room for Suban or Letang. No Way the rest are narrowing the gap.

 

[Sky04]

Oh my god what is wrong with you canadians? Why don´t you enjoy while it lasting? Why have you to be so cocky? I don´t get it why you get with this utter nonsense. I don´t read basketball forums are you americans so bored with USA NT? Or swedes with floorball? I really don´t get this canadian nature Stop whinning about how good you are. It is really anoying. Nothing is eternal. You are not dominating WJC already you won´t be dominating best on best once. Maybe I don´t get it because slovaks don´t dominate any sports but we won WC in street ball hockey in 2013 and 2015 and in 2014 U20,U18,U16 and I was still happy after we won 5th straight gold.

What are you even reading? It's not Canadian's gloating it mostly fans of other nations who lost who are saying "this is boring" because Canada is so stacked or they "had it in the bag" from the beginning. The majority of the people who enjoyed this tournament are Canadian, it's hilarious when I see fans from Europe post about this "joke" tournament, then talk up the Olympics like their team would be any better.

 

[jj cale]

I read this forum when other countries won. Mostly WJC´s recently. And I don´t read this never. It is really tiring when threads like this poping up or some poeple are bored with domination. They even know before the games it will be cake walk etc. Ok I shouldn´t generalize sorry for that but this sort of crap only write canadians though.

You see it all the time with fans from other countries when they win the WJC or Whc, you have this rather small minority that rubs everyones nose in it and brags for a week. You should have seen the Finn fans after this past WJC....they were gloating with zero brakes on.

How can you miss that?

 

[Seanaconda]

Oh my god what is wrong with you canadians? Why don´t you enjoy while it lasting? Why have you to be so cocky? I don´t get it why you get with this utter nonsense. I don´t read basketball forums are you americans so bored with USA NT? Or swedes with floorball? I really don´t get this canadian nature Stop whinning about how good you are. It is really anoying. Nothing is eternal. You are not dominating WJC already you won´t be dominating best on best once. Maybe I don´t get it because slovaks don´t dominate any sports but we won WC in street ball hockey in 2013 and 2015 and in 2014 U20,U18,U16 and I was still happy after we won 5th straight gold.

Okay what is floorball ? Like native American hockey but inside ?

Ohh it's indoor hockey with a wiffle ball. Most Canadians play inline hockey if they can't get ice during the summer.

Okay what is street ball hockey. Oh it's inline hockey without roller blades on. Okay.didnt know that had a championship tbh it's just what you do in the middle of the street during the summer here

 

[Westcoasthabsfan]

After watching the World Cup and hearing countless statistics about how good this group of Canadian players have been since 2010 (and even earlier for some), it has gotten to the point where watching Team Canada isn't as exuberant as before because there is no equal level of competition.

A simple and yet controversial solution that crossed my mind would be for a next World Cup tournament remove the under 23 North America team and split Canada into two teams. Take a breath and now hear me out.

With the USA struggling in this tournament they could use all of the help they can get, and with Matthews etc... still eligible to play for team North America next go around, US hockey would definitely prefer to have the young guns on their team (same with Canada i.e. McDavid).
To keep the tournament interesting, Canada should be split into two teams. Team West and Team East.

Players born in Manitoba, Sask, Alberta, and B.C. will consist of Team West.
Players born in Ontario, Quebec, Newfoundland / Labrador, and the Maritimes will consist of Team East.

Team West will be on Group A and Team East will be in Group B, which may increase the odds for other countries to pull an "upset" over a newer looking Canadian team. Plus, It will bring out the friendly rivalry among Canadian residents who will be happy to have a potential Crosby + McDavid vs Price + Toews match up in the finals. (Marketing 101).

*Note this will only apply to World Cup tournaments, not the Olympics*


TEAM WEST

G Carey Price, Anahim Lake, BC
G Braden Holtby, Lloydminster, SK
*G Martin Jones, North Vancouver, BC

D Shea Weber, Sicamous, BC
D Duncan Keith, Winnipeg, MB
D Brent Seabrook, Richmond, BC
D Jay Bouwmeester, Edmonton, AB
D Colton Parayko, St. Albert, AB
D Morgan Rielly, West Vancouver, BC
*D Ryan Murray, White City, SK

F Jonathan Toews, Winnipeg, MB
F Ryan Getzlaf, Regina, SK
F Jamie Benn, Victoria, BC
F Brendan Gallagher, Edmonton, AB
F Taylor Hall, Calgary, AB
F Milan Lucic, Vancouver, BC
F Jaden Schwartz, Wilcox, SK
F Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Burnaby, BC
F Patrick Sharp, Winnipeg, MB
F Mark Stone, Winnipeg, MB
F Ryan Johansen, Port Moody, BC
F Tyler Ennis, Edmonton, AB
*F Bryan Little, Edmonton, AB

++ Coach: Mike Babcock, Manitouwadge, ONT (Grew up in SK)


TEAM EAST

G Corey Crawford, Montreal, QC
G Marc-Andre Fleury, Sorel-Tracy, QC
*G Brian Elliott, Newmarket, ONT

D Drew Doughty, London, ONT
D Brent Burns, Barrie, ONT
D Alex Pietrangelo, King, ONT
D Marc-Edouard Vlasic, Montreal, QC
D Kris Letang, Montreal, QC
D P.K. Subban, Toronto, ONT
*D Mark Giordano, Toronto, ONT

F Sidney Crosby, Cole Harbour, NS
F Connor McDavid, Newmarket, ONT
F John Tavares, Mississauga, ONT
F Steven Stamkos, Markham, ONT
F Patrice Bergeron, L'Ancienne-Lorette, QC
F Tyler Seguin, Brampton ,ONT
F Nathan MacKinnon, Cole Harbour, NS
F Brad Marchand, Halifax, NS
F Joe Thornton, St. Thomas, ONT
F Ryan O'Reilly, Clinton, ONT
F Claude Giroux, Hearst, ONT
F Jeff Carter, London, ONT
*F Jonathan Drouin, Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts, QC

Coach: Joel Quenneville, Windsor, ONT


++ To make it more interesting I included Babcock to Team West

(*Feel free to create your own lineups + coaching staff*)


Plus, unsure where to post this thread. Created a poll for this in the Polls - (hockey-related only) section.

Lastly, good idea or bad idea? Let me know below.

These two teams would play each other in the best of three final...

 

[Westcoasthabsfan]

A lot of notable U-20 players were missing for Canada in those years.

Because Canadas best under 20 players are all ready in the NHL and not made available...so i take the results of recent WJ championships with a grain of salt

 

[Westcoasthabsfan]

Canada can have their "World Cup" but rename it Canada Cup again.

We stick with IIHF World Championships a tournament that actually means something.

Love the Canada Cup trophy

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

TEAM WEST

G Carey Price, Anahim Lake, BC
G Braden Holtby, Lloydminster, SK
*G Martin Jones, North Vancouver, BC

D Shea Weber, Sicamous, BC
D Duncan Keith, Winnipeg, MB
D Brent Seabrook, Richmond, BC
D Jay Bouwmeester, Edmonton, AB
D Colton Parayko, St. Albert, AB
D Morgan Rielly, West Vancouver, BC
*D Ryan Murray, White City, SK

F Jonathan Toews, Winnipeg, MB
F Ryan Getzlaf, Regina, SK
F Jamie Benn, Victoria, BC
F Brendan Gallagher, Edmonton, AB
F Taylor Hall, Calgary, AB
F Milan Lucic, Vancouver, BC
F Jaden Schwartz, Wilcox, SK
F Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Burnaby, BC
F Patrick Sharp, Winnipeg, MB
F Mark Stone, Winnipeg, MB
F Ryan Johansen, Port Moody, BC
F Tyler Ennis, Edmonton, AB
*F Bryan Little, Edmonton, AB

++ Coach: Mike Babcock, Manitouwadge, ONT (Grew up in SK)


TEAM EAST

G Corey Crawford, Montreal, QC
G Marc-Andre Fleury, Sorel-Tracy, QC
*G Brian Elliott, Newmarket, ONT

D Drew Doughty, London, ONT
D Brent Burns, Barrie, ONT
D Alex Pietrangelo, King, ONT
D Marc-Edouard Vlasic, Montreal, QC
D Kris Letang, Montreal, QC
D P.K. Subban, Toronto, ONT
*D Mark Giordano, Toronto, ONT

F Sidney Crosby, Cole Harbour, NS
F Connor McDavid, Newmarket, ONT
F John Tavares, Mississauga, ONT
F Steven Stamkos, Markham, ONT
F Patrice Bergeron, L'Ancienne-Lorette, QC
F Tyler Seguin, Brampton ,ONT
F Nathan MacKinnon, Cole Harbour, NS
F Brad Marchand, Halifax, NS
F Joe Thornton, St. Thomas, ONT
F Ryan O'Reilly, Clinton, ONT
F Claude Giroux, Hearst, ONT
F Jeff Carter, London, ONT
*F Jonathan Drouin, Sainte-Agathe-des-Monts, QC

Coach: Joel Quenneville, Windsor, ONT


++ To make it more interesting I included Babcock to Team West

TC East Goalies << TC West Goalies
TC East defensemen >>> TC West Defensemen
TC East Forwards >>>>>>TC West Forwards

East will easily against any team (which brings back to the original problem)

Also the only difference between TC East and current TC is:
Crawford instead of Price
McDavid instead of Toews
MacKinnon instead of Getzlaf
Letang instead of Weber
Subban instead of J-Bo

Except for the goalie, the difference between the rest is minor
So Team Canada East would be as op as current TC

 

[Tuoppi]

Too much analysis based on one tournament. USA sucked so the whole US hockey sucks and will do so in future tournaments. We are living in ADD times I guess.

 

[SportsRacer21]

I support this idea (or at least dividing Canada into 2 teams). The two most interesting storylines from the World Cup of Hockey were the gimmick teams. The other takeaway was that as long as NHL players are playing in the Olympics the World Cup of Hockey will always have 2nd tier status. But I think the World Cup of Hockey can still have a place as long as they go embrace the gimmick.

Why? Because let's be honest, in the world of hockey there are 3 pretty clear tiers. I looked at every Olympics, World Championships and WJC since the break-up of the USSR and here are the stats:

Country Gold Silver Bronze Total
Tier 1
Canada 21 10 4 35
Russia 8 12 11 31
Sweden 6 14 9 29
Finland 5 9 11 25
Tier 2
Czech Republic 9 1 7.5* 17.5
USA 2 3 6 11
Slovakia 1 2 3.5* 6.5
Tier 3
Switzerland 0 0 2 2
*In the 1993 WJC a "Czech and Slovak Republic" team won Bronze, hence the .5 for each country

Here is how I would fix the World Cup of Hockey
1) Experiment with teams. I think you have 5 teams locked in: Finland, Russia, Sweden, USA and create a Czechoslovakia team that combines Czech Republic and Slovakia. Now, I don't think you call it "Team Czechoslovakia" because I know both countries have their own separate identities (and some people still think Czechoslovakia exists), but I think combining those two Tier 2 teams creates a Tier 1 team and brings back hockey nostalgia for both countries fans.

That leaves 3 teams to be divided up between Canada and the rest of the world. Ideally you want 2 Canadian teams, so that Group A in USA/Canada has 3 North American teams.

Here are some options to fill the remaining 2 spots:
Western Canada
Eastern Canada

Canada
Canada Young Guns: Canadian-only version of Team North America (might have to raise the age a year or two to get a more competitive roster)

Then here are some options to fill the remaining spot:
Team Europe: Should still be competitive minus Slovakia
Team Best of the Rest: Team Europe+Snubs from other teams

So you end up getting something like this:

Group A
USA
Western Canada/Canada
Eastern Canada/Canada Young Guns
Team Best of the Rest/Russia

Group B
Finland
Sweden
Czech Republic+Slovakia
Russia/Team Europe

I think it would be fun to put Russia in Group A every tournament, but you could certainly just rotate a different European team in that 4th Group A slot every tournament instead.

2) The two separate groups are played on two separate continents. Group A rotates around the USA/Canada. Group B rotates around Europe. Each group has only 1 city hosting games every tournament. You can even keep the current TV format with one game in the afternoon (Group B- played at night in Europe) and one at night (Group A).

The main issue with this is where are the finals played? There are a number of different options (all of which would be played at that year's Group A and/or Group B site):

Home/Away/Home (team with most points in round-robin gets 2 home games)
Alternate finals location every tournament between Group A/Group B site
Finals location (Group A/B site) determined by whoever has most points in round-robin
Winner of last tournament gets to choose finals location (can be a different location than Group A or Group B site)

I understand this isn't the historical country vs country format of the old World Cup of Hockey, so maybe you just re-brand it as something else. I still think this tournament is interesting because it features more equally competitive teams and 4 teams that you can't see play anywhere else. Heck, maybe the World Cup of Hockey doesn't need to exist and you just make the All-Star game an 8 team single-elimination 3-on-3 tournament with these teams.

 

[Jakk123]

Okay what is floorball ? Like native American hockey but inside ?

Ohh it's indoor hockey with a wiffle ball. Most Canadians play inline hockey if they can't get ice during the summer.

Okay what is street ball hockey. Oh it's inline hockey without roller blades on. Okay.didnt know that had a championship tbh it's just what you do in the middle of the street during the summer here

And how is that related to ANYTHING he said?

 

[DNA]

Because let's be honest, in the world of hockey there are 3 pretty clear tiers. I looked at every Olympics, World Championships and WJC since the break-up of the USSR and here are the stats:

Country Gold Silver Bronze Total
Tier 1
Canada 21 10 4 35
Russia 8 12 11 31
Sweden 6 14 9 29
Finland 5 9 11 25
Tier 2
Czech Republic 9 1 7.5* 17.5
USA 2 3 6 11
Slovakia 1 2 3.5* 6.5
Tier 3
Switzerland 0 0 2 2
*In the 1993 WJC a "Czech and Slovak Republic" team won Bronze, hence the .5 for each country.

Those numbers do suggest 3 tiers - 1. Canada, 2. the next five, 3. Slovakia, Switzerland.

 

[Jakk123]

Those numbers do suggest 3 tiers - 1. Canada, 2. the next five, 3. Slovakia, Switzerland.

I agree. Slovakia in the same tier as USA and Czechs is nonsense. We have regressed heavily in the last decade. And including IIHF WC medals isn't quite fair, as USA often sends really much weaker squads than what they could afford. Also, one terrible World Cup showing doesn't mean USA isn't among the very best.

 

[Confucius]

Those numbers do suggest 3 tiers - 1. Canada, 2. the next five, 3. Slovakia, Switzerland.

I agree, if I win 21 times, by default somebody else has to come second and third. Only Golds should count when determining a rank. if Canada beats Russia 10 straight times in a final. They both get 10 medals. There is no way Russia is on the. Same level.

 

[SportsRacer21]

Canada's stats are heavily skewed by the WJCs (where 11 of their 21 golds and 20 of their 35 medals come). They are more on-par with the other Tier 1 teams in the Olympics and World Championships. But if you insist that Canada is their own tier then that just backs up the fact that they are too good and need to be divided into two separate teams.