Bergeron vs Getzlaf

[I am Bettman]

Inspired by a discussion in the recent “Next Ryan Getzlaf” thread on the main board. Who has had the better career? Better peak? Longer peak? Which career was most influenced by team success?

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[norrisnick]

In an ideal world Getzlaf is your #1 and Bergeron is your #2.

 

[PB37]

I think this has been done before.

Getzlaf was a top center for a long time and produced well. But Bergeron will end his career as one of the best defensive and faceoff men of all time while putting up good offensive numbers. That puts him over the top on Getzlaf overall and for their careers.

 

[norrisnick]

Peak? Getzlaf
Prime? Wash
If by career you mean trophy case? Bergeron
Team success? wash

Two different roles but ultimately of the same importance.

 

[I am Bettman]

I am relatively new here, so I apologize if this has been done before.

 

[JaegerDice]

Bergeron has been a better, more impactful player his entire career. This isn’t particularly close IMO, and that’s no slight against Getzlaf, there arent many centers Id pick over Bergeron as far as consistently high-level play… it honestly might be Crosby alone.

EDIT: Said players when I meant centers.

 

[norrisnick]

I am relatively new here, so I apologize if this has been done before.

Pro tip, for polls make the choices fit some specified question. You asked half a dozen so the ultimate outcome in the choices will be meaningless because you don't know which comparison they are voting for.

 

[I am Bettman]

Pro tip, for polls make the choices fit some specified question. You asked half a dozen so the ultimate outcome in the choices will be meaningless because you don't know which comparison they are voting for.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Gurglesons]

Bergeron has been a better, more impactful player his entire career. This isn’t particularly close IMO, and that’s no slight against Getzlaf, there arent many players Id pick over Bergeron as far as consistently high-level play… it honestly might be Crosby alone.

Lol.

Bergeron was a 50-60 pt guy for half a decade from 24-30.

He’s never finished top ten in scoring in his career.

 

[norrisnick]

Bergeron has been a better, more impactful player his entire career. This isn’t particularly close IMO, and that’s no slight against Getzlaf, there arent many players Id pick over Bergeron as far as consistently high-level play… it honestly might be Crosby alone.

I'm baffled how this can be stated as some sort of given truth. It is definitely close, but I don't see how Bergeron is definitively ahead.

 

[JaegerDice]

Lol.

I meant centers.

 

[Clode]

I'll take the man with five Selkes

 

[Gurglesons]

I meant centers.

Regardless of centers. Bergeron is nowhere close to Crosby. He was a defensive minded 2C for a good 5 year span with Boston.

 

[JaegerDice]

Lol.

Bergeron was a 50-60 pt guy for half a decade from 24-30.

He’s never finished top ten in scoring in his career.

It’s almost as if scoring is not the only way to impact goal differential, which is, of course, what wins games.

 

[Elvs]

I'd vote about even if there was an option for it. Getzlaf was better in the first half of their careers, Bergeron better in the second half - thus I expect him to run away with this partically due to recency bias.

 

[Gurglesons]

It’s almost as if scoring is not the only way to impact goal differential, which is, of course, what wins games.

From 2013 - 2016 Bergeron was 73rd in the league in 5v5 goal differential amongst players that played 1000 minutes. Getzlaf was 32nd.

I'd vote about even if there was an option for it. Getzlaf was better in the first half of their careers, Bergeron better in the second half - thus I expect him to run away with this partically due to recency bias.

This is the key to people rating Bergeron over Getzlaf. Getzlaf significantly fell off and Bergeron in his older age has had the luxury of playing with arguably the best LW in the league and a top ten RW

 

[JaegerDice]

Regardless of centers. Bergeron is nowhere close to Crosby. He was a defensive minded 2C for a good 5 year span with Boston.

Deployment /= impact.

Claude Julien was a defensive minded coach that deployed his players accordingly. He used Bergeron to absorb the brunt of the opposition’s top players, freeing up Krecji to strike at the soft underbelly. Not unlike how Chicago used Toews and Kane, or how LA used Kopitar and Carter. They picked the guy that could handle the other team’s best shot and shrug it off, then sent out the guy to torch the secondary players.

When the Bruins moved to Cassidy, a more offensively minded coach, Bergeron was deployed in a more offensive orientation and delivered more offense.

From 2013 - 2016 Bergeron was 73rd in the league in 5v5 goal differential amongst players that played 1000 minutes. Getzlaf was 32nd.



This is the key to people rating Bergeron over Getzlaf. Getzlaf significantly fell off and Bergeron in his older age has had the luxury of playing with arguably the best LW in the league and a top ten RW

Out of curiosity, what made you pick that particular 4-season period out of two decade+ long careers?

 

[Gurglesons]

Deployment /= impact.

Claude Julien was a defensive minded coach that deployed his players accordingly. He used Bergeron to absorb the brunt of the opposition’s top players, freeing up Krecji to strike at the soft underbelly. Not unlike how Chicago used Toews and Kane, or how LA used Kopitar and Carter. They picked the guy that could handle the other team’s best shot and shrug it off, then sent out the guy to torch the secondary players.


Out of curiosity, what made you pick that particular 4-season period out of two decade+ long careers?

NST only allows three season samples. I was referring to Bergeron’s years between 2011 and 2019 where he was largely unremarkable despite this revisionist history that he was some type of elite player.

I also think this a huge case of East vs West bias.

 

[Docgonzo]

Bergeron’s defense will push him ahead but it’s close. Getzlaf is the far superior offensive player.

Got these numbers from Quanthockey so hopefully they’re up to date. Last 10 season scoring.

#4. Marchand 702 games played 698 points

#20 Bergeron 679 gp 581 points
#30 Getzlaf 645 gp 547 points
#42 Pastrnak 510 gp 504 points

Next closest duck I could find was Perry at #74 with 646 gp 429 points, not all with the Ducks.

So Bergeron’s defense is better but he is much worse offensively. Bergeron just had 2 top 10 wingers on his flanks. Pasta has only 77 less points that Bergeron in 169 less games. While Getzlaf has had not much of anything since the wheels fell off Perry.

Now I feel gross for defending Getz.

 

[norrisnick]

Now I feel gross for defending Getz.

How do you think I feel as a Wing fan?

 

[Gurglesons]

Bergeron’s defense will push him ahead but it’s close. Getzlaf is the far superior offensive player.

Got these numbers from Quanthockey so hopefully they’re up to date. Last 10 season scoring.

#4. Marchand 702 games played 698 points

#20 Bergeron 679 gp 581 points
#30 Getzlaf 645 gp 547 points
#42 Pastrnak 510 gp 504 points

Next closest duck I could find was Perry at #74 with 646 gp 429 points, not all with the Ducks.

So Bergeron’s defense is better but he is much worse offensively. Bergeron just had 2 top 10 wingers on his flanks. Pasta has only 77 less points that Bergeron in 169 less games. While Getzlaf has had not much of anything since the wheels fell off Perry.

Now I feel gross for defending Getz.

How do you think I feel as a Wing fan?

As a Penguin fan based in the West since Getzlaf came in the league it's pretty obvious those that watched him from around the beginning of the salary cap until 18-19 know how damn good Getzlaf was until the team fell apart.

 

[PB37]

Bergeron’s defense will push him ahead but it’s close. Getzlaf is the far superior offensive player.

Got these numbers from Quanthockey so hopefully they’re up to date. Last 10 season scoring.

#4. Marchand 702 games played 698 points

#20 Bergeron 679 gp 581 points
#30 Getzlaf 645 gp 547 points
#42 Pastrnak 510 gp 504 points

Next closest duck I could find was Perry at #74 with 646 gp 429 points, not all with the Ducks.

So Bergeron’s defense is better but he is much worse offensively. Bergeron just had 2 top 10 wingers on his flanks. Pasta has only 77 less points that Bergeron in 169 less games. While Getzlaf has had not much of anything since the wheels fell off Perry.

Now I feel gross for defending Getz.

Bergeron per 82 games averages 66 points a year

Getzlaf per 82 games averaged 74

I'm not seeing this huge offensive gap. The only huge gap here would be their defensive games and faceoffs, where it's not even close. Getzlaf was above average defensively while being merely average at the dot while Bergeron will be remembered as one of the best of all time.

 

[Rengorlex]

Bergeron has pretty easily the more impressive career.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

In an ideal world Getzlaf is your #1 and Bergeron is your #2.

I would reverse these.

 

[BostonBruins11]

The last 5 seasons Bergeron's has roughly been a PPG +/- player. That's an impressive and long peak. He was on pace for 99 pts, 79pts in 65 games just a few seasons ago.

Its a shame we never seen his full offensive potential due to his early concussion and deployment once he recovered but i feel at the same time it pushed him to change his game an evolve into a 2-way monster.