Prospect Info: Ben Harpur

[ottomaddox]

I don't know. I think criticizing the#6 defenseman on TOR is an ugly/unhealthy obsession (tradition?).

It goes back as long as I can remember. Aki Berg (was a classic), Polak, Hal Gill, Kostka, Marincin, Lebda, etc.

The truth is this: if we had 5 Bobby Orrs playing defense, the #6 non-Bobby Orr would get crucified by this fanbase.

Bottom pairing/not so talented players exist on every single cup team. I'm sure there were better players in their respective organizations, but at the end of the day they won 16 playoff games.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

I don't know. I think criticizing the#6 defenseman on TOR is an ugly/unhealthy obsession (tradition?).

Just to add to your comment. According to many HFBoards posts: ALL other teams 6/7/8 Dmen are better than than Leafs 5/6 Dmen. And if they are RHD...even if they press box fodder....they suddenly become All Star trade value if traded to the Leafs.

 

[ACC1224]

I don't know. I think criticizing the#6 defenseman on TOR is an ugly/unhealthy obsession (tradition?).

It goes back as long as I can remember. Aki Berg (was a classic), Polak, Hal Gill, Kostka, Marincin, Lebda, etc.

The truth is this: if we had 5 Bobby Orrs playing defense, the #6 non-Bobby Orr would get crucified by this fanbase.

Bottom pairing/not so talented players exist on every single cup team. I'm sure there were better players in their respective organizations, but at the end of the day they won 16 playoff games.

Fans tend to have unrealistic expectations for the bottom pair, 4th line players.
This is true for all Teams.

 

[dubplatepressure]

Fans tend to have unrealistic expectations for the bottom pair, 4th line players.
This is true for all Teams.

Has there been any criticized 3rd pairing D that played for us that once departed went onto play decent (top4) elsewhere?

From the shortlist above none did. Kostka played a couple shelterdled crappy seasons but that was it. Hall Gill is the only one to make anything of himself. Guys like Corrado, Lebda, Marincin, Holl, Blacker, Wosniewski, Carrick, Ondrus, Fraser, Franson, etc... With occasional exception, they sucked and/or are dime a dozen and shouldn't be missed.

 

[ACC1224]

Has there been any criticized 3rd pairing D that played for us that once departed went onto play decent (top4) elsewhere?

From the shortlist above none did. Kostka played a couple shelterdled crappy seasons but that was it. Hall Gill is the only one to make anything of himself. Guys like Corrado, Lebda, Marincin, Holl, Blacker, Wosniewski, Carrick, Ondrus, Fraser, Franson, etc... With occasional exception, they sucked and/or are dime a dozen and shouldn't be missed.

I doubt it, bottom pair guys tend to stay bottom pair guys.

 

[dubplatepressure]

I doubt it, bottom pair guys tend to stay bottom pair guys.

That's what I figured. I mean, Franson and Hall Gill were good bottom pairing guys. Polak too.

 

[ACC1224]

That's what I figured. I mean, Franson and Hall Gill were good bottom pairing guys. Polak too.

Yep, they were great in the role.
Aki Berg may have been the best bottom pair guy to ever play(hyperbole) but he was consistently roasted.

Seems there always has to be one that is selected and roasted.
Be interesting to see who the candidate is this year, looks like Harpur is off to an early lead.

 

[The Nic]

I don't know. I think criticizing the#6 defenseman on TOR is an ugly/unhealthy obsession (tradition?).

It goes back as long as I can remember. Aki Berg (was a classic), Polak, Hal Gill, Kostka, Marincin, Lebda, etc.

The truth is this: if we had 5 Bobby Orrs playing defense, the #6 non-Bobby Orr would get crucified by this fanbase.

Bottom pairing/not so talented players exist on every single cup team. I'm sure there were better players in their respective organizations, but at the end of the day they won 16 playoff games.

This observation is not only very well stated... it is 100% true.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Babs has stated we have a super soft defense. Like I said you can't win with a bunch of candy *ss p*ssies. When every other team takes our net like butter we had to make some serious changes.

Harpur and Ceci were probably the best we could get and work inside our CAP situation. Harpur and Dermott will be a good match. They have skills that will match well together.

Between Muzzy, Ceci and Harpur we are going to be much harder team to cycle on, to get down low on and create around our net on. There will be a big improvement in high danger scoring chances against. We may give up same shots but they will be farther from our net which will help Freddy's stats. We can't continue to be a bottom end team giving up high danger chances

Rielly and Barrie like to skate the puck up the ice which is great. Ceci and Muzzy will stay home and protect the net.

I think a lot of people are forgetting what Nick Foligno said about our D. He said they absolutely were easy to cycle on and hated playing in their own zone. I would prefer having 1 offensive guy and 1 stay at home guy. Not every single player has to be a puck mover like some are saying. We have enough scoring on our team..we need to be able to stop someone from scoring.

That is why I get nervous when we go after so many smaller puck movers all the time. If you pair them up with someone who can clear the net..I don't mind so much. But, having all of your guys be like Gards is not what I think is conducive to winning in the playoffs.

People forget that even the highest rated D man getting 60% corsi is going to have be in his own end for 40% of the shots taken....that is a lot if you can't really defend very well.

 

[deletethis]

There was a time when an NHL organization might consider re-purposing a player like Harpur as a 4th line winger.

 

[gamer1035]

tbh i dont know how id feel if we had 6 competent defenders.

wouldnt know who to shit on after ugly losses

 

[jaric1862]

Harpur spent the most time on an NHL PK last year (out of Holl,Gravel,Marincin,Schmaltz)+also played the most amount of NHL games out of that group. He’s also 6’6 and plays a somewhat imposing game. I think it’s a lock that babs makes him our #6

 

[Martin Skoula]

tbh i dont know how id feel if we had 6 competent defenders.

wouldnt know who to **** on after ugly losses

The guys who are responsible for the lumpy ice.

 

[Antropovsky]

damn I’m just happy to have ridden ourselves of Zaitsev and his contract!

I don’t care if he finds success in Ottawa or not... reading his complaints, he is much too sensitive to ever have success in Toronto.

Having said that.... I don’t expect him to be much better than he was her. The guy was terrible under pressure and handled the puck like a grenade.

 

[crump]

The big question with Harpur is if they will let him wear 67.

 

[jaric1862]

The big question with Harpur is if they will let him wear 67.

He's wearing 22

 

[OVO16]

IF he can prove to be a decent bottom-pairing 6th D-man....his toughness would be welcomed with open arms.

 

[Stephen]

True, you're right. Babcock has no history of sitting guys in the pressbox and not playing them unless injury. *Cough* Leivo, Corrado, Holl *Cough*

He's honestly the perfect guy to just sit there. Give him a NHL paycheck, no worries about his developent, he's gone at the end of the year.

What did Corrado and Leivo go on to do in the NHL once freed from the oppression of Egocock? Is it really that egregious that he didn't use marginal NHL talent at the bottom of the roster?

A "wasted" asset like Frankie Corrado has only played in 7 NHL games since he first left the Leafs...

 

[Stephen]

Babs has stated we have a super soft defense. Like I said you can't win with a bunch of candy *ss p*ssies. When every other team takes our net like butter we had to make some serious changes.

Harpur and Ceci were probably the best we could get and work inside our CAP situation. Harpur and Dermott will be a good match. They have skills that will match well together.

Between Muzzy, Ceci and Harpur we are going to be much harder team to cycle on, to get down low on and create around our net on. There will be a big improvement in high danger scoring chances against. We may give up same shots but they will be farther from our net which will help Freddy's stats. We can't continue to be a bottom end team giving up high danger chances

Rielly and Barrie like to skate the puck up the ice which is great. Ceci and Muzzy will stay home and protect the net.

I always find it funny when the progressive analytics crowd talks about "playing with the puck" as if ignoring the part of the equation where you first manage to get the puck.

 

[Morgs]

What did Corrado and Leivo go on to do in the NHL once freed from the oppression of Egocock? Is it really that egregious that he didn't use marginal NHL talent at the bottom of the roster?

A "wasted" asset like Frankie Corrado has only played in 7 NHL games since he first left the Leafs...

Wtf are you even arguing lmao. I was saying I hope Harpur is the next one of those guys because you shouldn't play garbage players.

But Leivo is actually a decent top-9 guy, just couldn't get on Babs good side.

 

[stickty111]

It's wierd the people who hate on analytics ignore stuff like possession and corsi, when it's the main way to win hockey games.

 

[Mr Hockey]

It's wierd the people who hate on analytics ignore stuff like possession and corsi, when it's the main way to win hockey games.

there have been many top Corsi/possession teams in the past that don't even make the playoffs, LA led the league in CF% and failed to make the playoffs a couple of years ago ...

 

[MyBudJT]

It's wierd the people who hate on analytics ignore stuff like possession and corsi, when it's the main way to win hockey games.

Funny, I thought the main way to win hockey games was to outscore your opponent. My bad.

 

[qqaz]

Has there been any criticized 3rd pairing D that played for us that once departed went onto play decent (top4) elsewhere?

From the shortlist above none did. Kostka played a couple shelterdled crappy seasons but that was it. Hall Gill is the only one to make anything of himself. Guys like Corrado, Lebda, Marincin, Holl, Blacker, Wosniewski, Carrick, Ondrus, Fraser, Franson, etc... With occasional exception, they sucked and/or are dime a dozen and shouldn't be missed.

Anton Stralman.

He was a 3rd pairing guy here, getting 12-15 minutes a game and some AHL time. Then he went to CBus, NYR, and Tampa where he played as a top 4. In Tampa he averaged like 22 minutes or more most of the time. That's more ice time than Gardiner in the last 4 years.

Like you said, though, it's an occasional exception. He wasn't that criticised when he was here, and it was more a case of giving up on him too soon. We weren't the only ones, as Calgary, CBus, and NJD all declined to give him a contract when they had the chance.

 

[4thline]

Excited to see what he can do when slotted properly.
Projecting the same results from a guy used way out of his depth playing as a shutdown D with 57% Dzone starts on an ass team when he gets moved to a great team where he will likely be sheltered seems.. questionable