Barzal vs Marner

[Holymakinaw]

The way I grade skaters is this way. As most do.

Speed - Barzal
Strength on Skates Barzal
Lateral movement Barzal
Stopping and starting - Barzal

Barzal has the advantage in all categories. But according to you they are in the same tier some how? Why because one wears blue and white and the other wears blue and grey?

LOL. Laughable.

How about you PROVE that Barzal is a "better skater" than Marner?

I've seen Marner skate 10 times faster than Barzal, many times, with better strength on skates, better lateral movement, and better stopping & starting. Don't believe me? Too bad. I'm right and you're a joke.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

And you've authored your fair share of them.

Not nearly as many as you.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

What exactly is this segment meant to accomplish?

huge laughs

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You didn't answer the question, again. If you refuse to answer one simple question, why would you expect anyone to answer yours?

I'll give you one last chance, emphasis on the word last. And if you don't answer, don't bother me with any more noise, you know what they say about strike 3.

You obviously can't even answer a question and own up to it when you are the one that brought it up to in the first place. https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/151889731/

The only thing I have read from you that Marner is better at than Barzal is when skating is the topic. Is he falls down a lot more on the ice when he is skating than Barzal does. But falling down and skating on the seat of your pants is not an example of how one is a better skater is it?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

What exactly is this segment meant to accomplish?

Probably the same thing as when you call the non Leaf players garbage or untalented in most polls.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You obviously can't even answer a question and own up to it when you are the one that brought it up to in the first place. https://hfboards.mandatory.com/posts/151889731/

The only thing I have read from you that Marner is better at than Barzal when skating is the discussion. Is he falls down a lot on the ice when he is skating. But this is not an example of how one is a better skater is it?

Strike three, you're out. But I guess we all knew this is how it would end, didn't we.


I'm done with you, have a nice weekend Mr. comic relief.

 

[Cotton]

Not nearly as many as you.

Totes, my posts history is filled with incessant whining, especially about Leaf players in Leafs centric threads that I'm secretly addicted to, even though I complain about them. Oh wait, no that's you.

You just got your weenie all knotted up because i think Barzal is overrated. Last night's game, if you saw it, is a prime example of why I think so, a nothing secondary assist off the back of Pelech's effort after several PPs and a 5 on 3, doesnt go to the dangerous areas. He's floating around the ice but is the only truly talented player so he gets his touches, resulting in some points - most of which secondary and with the man advantage.

Thats not to say he isnt a fantastic player in his own way, but he's not the PPG 1C like he's being touted as after last season, he Jim Carrey'd everyone, imo.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Those with Leaf-Envy know Marner is the better player, so now they’re spending all their time arguing Barzal is at least the better skater. Calm down folks, Barzal has better hair then Marner, so you have that.

 

[TheDoldrums]

I love how people are making the cut and paste sample method to drive home a narrative.

So let's use the Career sample, the largest sample of 2 players picked 12 slots apart from the 2015 draft. Even taking the positional argument out of the equation since most regard a Center as more valuable than a winger. Or the actual career seasonal high in points 85-69 BOTH in Barzal's favour.

Barzal is still superior in the largest sample of games available.

Barzal .99 PPG over 82 games 81 points

Marner .86 PPG over 82 games 70 points.

Using career PPG doesn't seem fair when one of the guys required an extra year of development in junior. It's not Marners fault he was ready and able to help his team make the playoffs while Barzal was cut from the Islanders.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Strike three, you're out. But I guess we all knew this is how it would end, didn't we.


I'm done with you, have a nice weekend Mr. comic relief.

You replied to me 1st. I didn't reply to you. Well atleast I know what the topic is. Not sure you ever knew. Barzal is in the top 1% of skaters in the NHL, Marner is not. That's just another advantage Barzal has on Marner, one of many. And he didn't need to be picked 4th overall to surpass him. Which for all the fans that believed in Barzal is a big enough win when one ever makes a comparison of the 2. Think about that. Now we are done.

 

[IPS]

Probably the same thing as when you call the non Leaf players garbage or untalented in most polls.

Do we have another pot calling the kettle black here?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Probably the same thing as when you call the non Leaf players garbage or untalented in most polls.

“Whenever you are about to find fault with someone, ask yourself the following question: What fault of mine most nearly resembles the one I am about to criticize?” ― Marcus Aurelius

 

[Holymakinaw]

Those with Leaf-Envy know Marner is the better player, so now they’re spending all their time arguing Barzal is at least the better skater. Calm down folks, Barzal has better hair then Marner, so you have that.

Bull. Prove it.

Marner has exquisite hair.

 

[BayStreetBully]

A look at the +/- of the top 5 Islanders scorers this year:

Josh Bailey +8
Anders Lee +8
Brock Nelson +6
Casey Cizikas +8

And then Matthew Barzal. -9. That’s Minus Nine. Negative Nine.

Matthew Barzal -9

I mean, even if you don’t read into +/- much, that’s a huge difference between him and the other top 5 team scorers. Is he not as fast in backchecking as we think, or is he indeed fast but just lazy?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Do we have another pot calling the kettle black here?

Nope. I never call Leaf players garbage. You’re in a class of your own.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

“Whenever you are about to find fault with someone, ask yourself the following question: What fault of mine most nearly resembles the one I am about to criticize?” ― Marcus Aurelius

Good advice from old Marcus. He was a great clutch goal scorer. You should follow his advice.
Or you could point out a post where I called a Leaf player garbage or untalented in any poll.

 

[IPS]

A look at the +/- of the top 5 Islanders scorers this year:

Josh Bailey +8
Anders Lee +8
Brock Nelson +6
Casey Cizikas +8

And then Matthew Barzal. -9. That’s Minus Nine. Negative Nine.

Matthew Barzal -9

I mean, even if you don’t read into +/- much, that’s a huge difference between him and the other top 5 team scorers. Is he not as fast in backchecking as we think, or is he indeed fast but just lazy?

Barzal's getting a good dose of Trotz coaching this year. He was very bad defensively last year but it got ignored.

 

[TeddyBare]

Marner just makes everyone around him so good.
Barzal does too. But not to the same effect in my opinion.

So I'll go with him.

 

[BayStreetBully]

Barzal's getting a good dose of Trotz coaching this year. He was very bad defensively last year but it got ignored.

That’s a very plausible explanation. I hadn’t looked into the grave, grave disparity, but that makes sense. Thanks.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

That's right....what about now?

You mean after a gigantic 15 game sample size? Barzal is still better.

Barzal on ice sh% is 6.06% and his PDO is .962
Marner on ice sh% is 13.22% and his PDO 1.069

So Marner has benefited from about 50% better puck luck at this point and is due for downward regression, whereas Barzal should expect upwards regression.

You speculated that Marner wouldn't put up points if he played on the NYI.
The thread asks about overall play, not just points.

Both players can dominate when on the ice, you have seen Marner play right? He'll be wearing 16 tonight against the Devils.

I don't have to speculate that Barzal significantly outscored Marner last year, and was significantly better overall as well. He was a dominant possession player and play driver, much more so than Marner has ever been.

Its not speculation to understand that most predictable coach in the NHL is going to be predictable. Again, zero chance that Barzal would have played C on the Leafs last year - except as an injury replacement. Suggesting otherwise just shows that you understand nothing about Babcock.

Furthermore, just as it would have been completely stupid to use Nylander as the 3C last year, it would have been equally stupid to use Barzal as the 3C (and yes he would have been behind both Matthews and Kadri - Matthews was the 1C, and Kadri was the shutdown C).

I remember before Matthews rookie season many were predicting him to play 3C or wing because Babcock. So predictable, right?

Barzal is a dominant possession center, moreso than even Matthews.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

A look at the +/- of the top 5 Islanders scorers this year:

Josh Bailey +8
Anders Lee +8
Brock Nelson +6
Casey Cizikas +8

And then Matthew Barzal. -9. That’s Minus Nine. Negative Nine.

Matthew Barzal -9

I mean, even if you don’t read into +/- much, that’s a huge difference between him and the other top 5 team scorers. Is he not as fast in backchecking as we think, or is he indeed fast but just lazy?

I am guessing you don't know anything about PDO?

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

lol...what kind of fool would say something so absurd?

I’m too lazy to look it up, but if I’m not mistaken, it was @The Winter Soldier that created the thread in question about an upcoming breakout season for PoolParty after a specific PRESEASON game (keep in mind, it was claimed by the OP of that thread, possibly TWS, during LAST years PRESEASON).

So by all accounts, at least according to whoever was the person that came up with an absurd idea like a breakout season for a player after a preseason game, PoolParty must be lighting up the league by now, wouldn’t you think?

Of course, we will never know who really started that thread, as the OP will never admit to having such a narrow hockey mind with a compete lack of understanding regarding the game of hockey (and the nhl in general)

 

[ACC1224]

You speculated that Marner wouldn't put up points if he played on the NYI.
.

I don't have to speculate that Barzal significantly outscored Marner last year, and was significantly better overall as well. He was a dominant possession player and play driver, much more so than Marner has ever been.

.

Nice attempt. Reading comprehension can be tricky, stick with it and ask others for help when confused.

Enjoy the game tonight, Marner will be in Blue, #16.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Nice attempt. Reading comprehension can be tricky, stick with it and ask others for help when confused.

Enjoy the game tonight, Marner will be in Blue, #16.

I did, but I don't have to speculate on who was better over a full season last year...

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

I did, but I don't have to speculate on who was better over a full season last year...

Who has been better this season in your opinion?