Barry Trotz's tenure as Caps coach (RS: Healthy; Playoff: 2nd Round Exititis)

[txpd]

My point about Williams is that he won't stay if he thinks they cant win. Should he stay, he must think it can be done. I dont expect him to stay

 

[Capsman]

My point about Williams is that he won't stay if he thinks they cant win. Should he stay, he must think it can be done. I dont expect him to stay

I got the impression his comments were more about salary and cap space (and perhaps the direction the team wants to go, i.e. younger and faster). I'd love him to stay honestly.

 

[Capitals40]

This may sound silly but how exactly does one blame a coach? I mean how exactly was he supposed to get the team pumped up for game 7? If they weren't ready then that's not trotz fault.

Second of all, what if trotz has the perfect system but the players didn't execute it. Why do we blame the coach when he can only tell people to do things?

Did u not notice the conservative style of play in game 7 compared to the other games? Do u think the players came up with this scheme? There were many times the Penguins broke out of the zone and we had 4 players sitting on our blue line flat footed...stupid strategy against most teams much less the Pens

 

[Brian23]

Honestly, the comments about history highlight my biggest issue with Trotz; he just doesn't own failure. It is always a lucky bounce or 50/50, there's never "we weren't good enough and we need to do X to get better" or "I didn't have them ready for Y, that's on me". You can't keep blaming game 7 flameouts at home on luck, you can't blame getting kicked in the ass every round 2 as 50/50.

It's why I'd like to see him moved and an attempt to trade/move a core piece for another Core type player.

 

[g00n]

Honestly, the comments about history highlight my biggest issue with Trotz; he just doesn't own failure. It is always a lucky bounce or 50/50, there's never "we weren't good enough and we need to do X to get better" or "I didn't have them ready for Y, that's on me". You can't keep blaming game 7 flameouts at home on luck, you can't blame getting kicked in the ass every round 2 as 50/50.

It's why I'd like to see him moved and an attempt to trade/move a core piece for another Core type player.

You could probably just put Oates' name on Trotz's quotes and nobody would notice the difference. Except we like Trotz better as a person and they keep making the playoffs so we accept it as harmless, canned positivity.

 

[Brian23]

You could probably just put Oates' name on Trotz's quotes and nobody would notice the difference. Except we like Trotz better as a person and they keep making the playoffs so we accept it as harmless, canned positivity.

I dunno, tone matters a lot and one of the biggets knocks I think on Oates was his arrogance. He might say the same line, but he'd say it in such a way like he had the answer but didn't want to share with the rest of the world.

But you're right. He's a great person and a nice guy so the FO and the media are fine accepting his excuse and letting him get another shot instead of looking at the simple fact; this is the best team Trotz will ever have in DC and he couldn't get it done. Maybe he coin filps his way in the future, but that's not something anyone on the team will be able to control, and that simple reason is why he should be gone.

 

[txpd]

I got the impression his comments were more about salary and cap space (and perhaps the direction the team wants to go, i.e. younger and faster). I'd love him to stay honestly.

lots of reasons why he would leave. I am talking about what it says if he stays. He isn't staying. I would not be surprised to find all the ufa's to be leaving including Oshie.

 

[Jags]

Honestly, the comments about history highlight my biggest issue with Trotz; he just doesn't own failure.

Who does? No player or coach should be completely candid with the press, and they're all instructed to walk a very fine line. You don't air your dirty laundry in public. Any approach would split the fanbase -- half would admire their honesty and the other half would take them at face value and crucify accordingly. It's bad for business, bad for the sport, and bad for their careers.

Every interview they do is wall-to-wall platitudes and cliches. Behind closed doors, you have no way of knowing how much or little Trotz or anyone identifies, assigns, or accepts the blame for failures. We get little insights here and there and we (and especially the press) jump to conclusions and vomit opinions on cue.

 

[Jags]

The Caps have made it to the 2nd round in all 3 MacLellan seasons. That IS an improvement over McPhee.

I keep coming back to the seeding, too. It's an argument built on sour grapes and speculation, I know, but it's not much of a leap to suggest that we would have gone deeper in a merit-based format. These last two years probably would have ended with losses to Pittsburgh regardless, but they should have happened in the Eastern Finals.

Losing to a 2-seed in 6- and 7-game series isn't as bad as "2nd round flameout" makes it sound.

 

[g00n]

Caps attendance dropped to the mid 90s in % during the Oates regime, and shot back up to 105% in Barry's first year. The last two years it's been at 100% which looks good at first glance but it's still a drop and teetering on the brink of moving to Oates levels. I wonder if this concerns Ted?

 

[Hivemind]

I was really hoping Trotz would be fired by now. They're going to miss out on the "Laviolettes*" of this coaching class if they don't act now.


*Referring to their slow pace in the previous coaching search costing them a chance at Laviolette then.

 

[RandyHolt]

We like our management team

 

[Langway]

I was really hoping Trotz would be fired by now. They're going to miss out on the "Laviolettes*" of this coaching class if they don't act now.

*Referring to their slow pace in the previous coaching search costing them a chance at Laviolette then.

There are only two openings currently and neither are win-now type destinations. I don't think they're missing out on all that much either. Sutter has the experience but I tend to doubt the organization goes there. Hartley similarly has the experience but, again, I don't see it. Same for Bylsma. I think they genuinely like the relationship and aren't yet prepared to sever it in the hopes maybe someone can get them a bit further. Trotz survived so many years in Nashville. The guy knows how to keep confidence and it's not like this front office/ownership are the most thorough.

As time passes I think they're just going to revert right back to their comfort zone. They'll skip over much of the deliberative questions in order to turn the focus to re-signing Oshie, the RFAs, etc. If it were to happen it would likely be between Monday and Wednesday. MacLellan will speak to the media early in the week and I'd guess he puts it to bed then and there. I'd be very surprised if he's gone.

 

[Revelation]

There are only two openings currently and neither are win-now type destinations. I don't think they're missing out on all that much either. Sutter has the experience but I tend to doubt the organization goes there. Hartley similarly has the experience but, again, I don't see it. Same for Bylsma. I think they genuinely like the relationship and aren't yet prepared to sever it in the hopes maybe someone can get them a bit further. Trotz survived so many years in Nashville. The guy knows how to keep confidence and it's not like this front office/ownership are the most thorough.

As time passes I think they're just going to revert right back to their comfort zone. They'll skip over much of the deliberative questions in order to turn the focus to re-signing Oshie, the RFAs, etc. If it were to happen it would likely be between Monday and Wednesday. MacLellan will speak to the media early in the week and I'd guess he puts it to bed then and there. I'd be very surprised if he's gone.

Yeah, they'll hang onto him until a year after the attendance dip, which should be this upcoming year. Missing out on Sutter will be missing out on their final chance to get a cup in the Ovechkin era.

 

[Portable Mink]

Came back to hockey land to at least hope that Barry was gone. I see no such luck yet.
Back to hockey blocking for me. I have no idea if there has even been games since we lost or anything.

I honestly dont give a **** about anything to do with hockey except this team anymore and even that is painful enough and only worth a few moments of my thought atm! haha.

 

[SpinningEdge]

New coach?

New players?

New system?

....... am I the only one at this point who just doesn't have a opinion anymore? Seems like at this point it just doesn't even matter. :/

 

[Jags]

Maybe you're just learning that the overzealous passion thing isn't worth it.

You were railing against Mac all year, then publicly forgave him and lauded him for getting Shattenkirk, now back to bashing him for not doing enough...

I dig your passion, but now that you don't have any fight left in you, you can kinda see how all the zeal and posting every thought you have the moment you have it is pretty pointless and inconsistent.

You know the euphoria of winning it all wears off pretty quickly, right? "Hey, at least we won one" only holds up as a meaningful excuse for about a year, then you go right back to losing your mind over not winning another one.

It's fleeting, Spin. It's easier to channel that energy into enjoying it in the moment, then let it fade. Win or lose, it fades fast. You get so caught up in the highs and lows that you often miss the actual narrative.

It was like a week ago that you posted something like, "Did you guys know our bottom 6 hasn't scored barely at all?!?!?" Yeah, it became a key story the moment they bumped Wilson up to the 3rd and remained a huge part of the narrative for the rest of the playoffs. You watched all the games and didn't notice? Benching Connolly, going 7D -- that was all part of it, and you missed it?

You're a smart guy and you know the game well, but you're watching the game with one eye, a couple GDTs with the other, thousands of posts on multiple boards...

Ease up on the reins. There's little reward in the "all or nothing" approach.

 

[Capsman]

I keep coming back to the seeding, too. It's an argument built on sour grapes and speculation, I know, but it's not much of a leap to suggest that we would have gone deeper in a merit-based format. These last two years probably would have ended with losses to Pittsburgh regardless, but they should have happened in the Eastern Finals.

Losing to a 2-seed in 6- and 7-game series isn't as bad as "2nd round flameout" makes it sound.

Who knows if getting out of the second round would have taken that giant monkey off or backs and improved our chances against Pittsburgh.

 

[brachyrynchos]

I'm sure Trotz is thinking alot about game 7, focusing on the defensive lapses while remaining oblivious to the ineptitude of the offense. Him and hus assistants need to go. If there is no quantified candidate, hire an interim and wait til someone better becomes available, but don't settle and hire somebody just because.

 

[OV Rocks]

This was the Caps best chance at a Cup but Trotz really hindered that with his commitment to his system.

The Pens last season had the mentality of we are just playing hockey. Play fast and play for each other and it worked. The Caps have become to focused on their system with Trotz. Gotta find a coach who lets the dogs out and makes them play for one another. Block out all the critics, forget about detailed systems, heck don't even let us fans in. Just put your head down and play hockey like you have for 20-30 years

Gotta go offensive minded and a guy who isn't afraid to take chances on young guys. Trotz killed this team by not giving any young guys a chance to learn the league.

 

[Jags]

Who knows if getting out of the second round would have taken that giant monkey off or backs and improved our chances against Pittsburgh.

Maybe, but let's not go that far with the speculation. Just getting to the ECF once (maybe twice) would have changed the narrative here quite a bit.

"Just another 2nd round collapse" just isn't accurate given the new seeding. Last year it was the #1 team in the East vs. the #2 team in the East in the 2nd round. This year it was the #1 team in the NHL vs. the #2 team in the NHL in the 2nd round.

That's not how it should go.

 

[txpd]

"Just another 2nd round collapse" just isn't accurate given the new seeding. Last year it was the #1 team in the East vs. the #2 team in the East in the 2nd round. This year it was the #1 team in the NHL vs. the #2 team in the NHL in the 2nd round..

Back in the Langway era, they had a division playoff format as well. Then it was the Islanders that the Caps couldn't get past. Yea, losing to the 2 seed in the 2nd round rather than the 3rd sucks, but the fact remains that the Caps should have won those series. Probably both. Certainly one. A reason they lose is the cant get out of the 2nd round narrative.

 

[twabby]

Looking back on it I'm blown away that Trotz didn't think Nate Schmidt was amongst the top 6 defensemen at the end of the regular season and to start the postseason. As a head coach that sort of talent mis-evaluation is unacceptable.

I softly defended Trotz's position at the time given Carlson and Alzner's past playoff performances, but at this point the position is pretty much indefensible. Schmidt was the driving force of the third pairing all season and Brooks Orpik, despite having a nice enough season, was clearly being dragged upward by Schmidt. Carlson also looked at his best alongside Schmidt this season, and so did Shattenkirk. Instead of giving Schmidt a chance down the stretch of the regular season he immediately declared that Schmidt was the 7D and benched him. Seems like a really foolish decision now.

It really seems like Trotz, moreso than other coaches, prefers his vets over young players. Contrast this with coaches like Laviolette and Sullivan who seem very willing to throw their talented young guys into the fire right away and I think it's a big problem especially given the Capitals' need to get younger. This isn't a new criticism with Trotz, who was criticized by Nashville fans for preferring vets way too much. With Filip Forsberg, for example, Trotz never really gave him a real chance to succeed in 2013-14 but instead buried him on the 4th line in his NHL time alongside grinders. Laviolette immediately gave Forsberg a shot and now he's one of the best young forwards in the NHL.

Vrana is probably going to need to be an NHLer next season given the team's salary cap position. Not really sure I trust Trotz with Vrana's development (and he already criticized Vrana despite looked decent enough in his NHL time). Also players like Bowey, Djoos, Johansen, or Siegenthaler are going to need to step up at some point and I'm not sure Trotz is going to give any of them a fair shake. Trotz was a little more patient this year with Orlov and Schmidt, but last season he was far too willing to bench them over a mistake or two and I'm afraid that will happen again with the Capitals' young D knocking on the door.

IMO the team needs a fresh set of eyes and a coach who is willing to play the young players. Part of the reason I think promoting AHL coaches sometimes works is because they are far more willing to trust their young guys rather than just assuming the old vets are the best option. Not saying Troy Mann is the best option, but I'd like someone who can take an honest look at players.

 

[OV Rocks]

Looking back on it I'm blown away that Trotz didn't think Nate Schmidt was amongst the top 6 defensemen at the end of the regular season and to start the postseason. As a head coach that sort of talent mis-evaluation is unacceptable.

I softly defended Trotz's position at the time given Carlson and Alzner's past playoff performances, but at this point the position is pretty much indefensible. Schmidt was the driving force of the third pairing all season and Brooks Orpik, despite having a nice enough season, was clearly being dragged upward by Schmidt. Carlson also looked at his best alongside Schmidt this season, and so did Shattenkirk. Instead of giving Schmidt a chance down the stretch of the regular season he immediately declared that Schmidt was the 7D and benched him. Seems like a really foolish decision now.

It really seems like Trotz, moreso than other coaches, prefers his vets over young players. Contrast this with coaches like Laviolette and Sullivan who seem very willing to throw their talented young guys into the fire right away and I think it's a big problem especially given the Capitals' need to get younger. This isn't a new criticism with Trotz, who was criticized by Nashville fans for preferring vets way too much. With Filip Forsberg, for example, Trotz never really gave him a real chance to succeed in 2013-14 but instead buried him on the 4th line in his NHL time alongside grinders. Laviolette immediately gave Forsberg a shot and now he's one of the best young forwards in the NHL.

Vrana is probably going to need to be an NHLer next season given the team's salary cap position. Not really sure I trust Trotz with Vrana's development (and he already criticized Vrana despite looked decent enough in his NHL time). Also players like Bowey, Djoos, Johansen, or Siegenthaler are going to need to step up at some point and I'm not sure Trotz is going to give any of them a fair shake. Trotz was a little more patient this year with Orlov and Schmidt, but last season he was far too willing to bench them over a mistake or two and I'm afraid that will happen again with the Capitals' young D knocking on the door.

IMO the team needs a fresh set of eyes and a coach who is willing to play the young players. Part of the reason I think promoting AHL coaches sometimes works is because they are far more willing to trust their young guys rather than just assuming the old vets are the best option. Not saying Troy Mann is the best option, but I'd like someone who can take an honest look at players.

A college coach might be interesting as well to think about. Development of young players at the NHL level will be critical going forward. Guys you mentioned plus Orlov, Schmidt, Burakovsky, and Kuznetsov still can develop

 

[Langway]

The longer it takes until we hear from MacLellan the more likely there are changes afoot that the front office and ownership are preoccupied with. It's only the following Monday but to not have it set up yet (or so it seems) is a bit strange. Is he trying to get a contract done to shift the focus forward a bit?

I assume player exit meetings were held prior to their exit interviews with the media Friday so that would have given them the weekend to fully process everything. All of the mental blocks and frustration from the players had to be aired out at the exit meetings, not just in front of the media. That only makes Trotz's comments about laughing at the weight of their past and inability to be fully present and execute all the more bizarre. It didn't come across like a coach that has much of an idea on the way forward. Then again, I didn't listen to the whole interview so maybe there was more substance. I'll listen later but those comments alone make you wonder.

Edit: Exit meetings between the players and GM hadn't been held yet per Trotz's Friday presser. txpd will also be happy to hear Trotz mentioning heading into this past playoffs preaching embracing and accepting their past while making the most out of the present.