Speculation: Babcock and Nylander - Back for another year, here'$ why

[Pookie]

Forget philosophy differences. Forget the talent and youth question.

Both of these guys will be back for the simple reason that ending their tenure in Toronto would expose significant ineptitude on the part of Shanahan and to some extent Dubas.

Nylander
Nylander will have received over $20MM in cash from the Leafs as of July 1st. His salary for next year is $700k. Moving him this offseason would amount to $20MM in payment for 4 months work.

Yes, the contract is attractive to trade but only because the money truck had a Leaf logo on it. If you were negotiating with the intent to trade, you've got to offer some protection to your employer.

Babcock
The $6.25MM coach has 4 years left on his contract. Leafs would be paying him $25MM to go away and to find a job to coach against the team.

This was Shanahan's pick. And an 8 year contract was approved by the Board.

Riding the Leafs of these two would be a move to cover up for "mistakes" at a cost of $45MM.

The Leafs have deep pockets. Yes. However, as much as this is a hockey game, this is a political game and a business. This would be gross mismanagement of financial resources.

I do not believe either would benefit from calling their judgement into question at this time.

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[Jozay]

Has been reported that Babcocks contract is front loaded.

 

[griffon1]

If they got through a round or two because of it, it's well worth it

 

[Mr Hockey]

If we were to get a new coach Leaf fans would just call for his firing at the first slump, playoff series loss, sub 100 point season, etc

 

[Mr Hockey]

If they got through a round or two because of it, it's well worth it

Highly doubt the Leafs win a game 7 as long as Andersens the starter (IMO)

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Replacing a coach like Babcock shows a commitment to winning. You can't stay married to a mistake just for the sake of not looking dumb

 

[FraumBallard]

Replacing a coach like Babcock shows a commitment to winning. You can't stay married to a mistake just for the sake of not looking dumb

Correct.
See.
Boy.
Wonder.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Id rather lose with Keefe than spin our ass with Babcock.

 

[Pookie]

You guys are all focusing on reasons and not the politics or the financial mismanagement.

It's a business.

This would be a blunder of significant proportions.

 

[Contenderorpretender]

You guys are all focusing on reasons and not the politics or the financial mismanagement.

It's a business.

This would be a blunder of significant proportions.

But its significantly lucrative to make it past the 1st round. I agree with nylander for now, but Babcock can be replaced

 

[Buds17]

If a trade could be made to improve the team and it involved Nylander, I'd hope they'd make it. If there's a coach to be hired that could get more out of the team than Babcock has thus far, I'd hope they'd make that change too. There would be significant financial implications involved, but ownership gave the green light to a bottoming out, took on salary to accumulate potential future assets, and isn't afraid to spend to the cap.

Don't know how realistic a possibility trading Nylander was prior to re-signing him. I do know the Leafs didn't trade him. Don't know how realistic a possibility Nylander going elsewhere/not re-signing was. I do know he re-signed with the Leafs. The Leafs didn't improve on their regular season or playoff finish, but I'd be surprised if enough of that was pinned on Babcock to the tune of firing him at this point.

Keep them or move on, the judgment of Shanahan and Dubas will only be called into question if the decisions they make prove to be the wrong ones.

 

[MSZ]

I would give Melander another chance to play on Matthews' wing.

Babcock has to go regardless of how much money he makes.

 

[A1LeafNation]

You guys are all focusing on reasons and not the politics or the financial mismanagement.

It's a business.

This would be a blunder of significant proportions.

Shanny and co. can't afford to waste another year of this cores prime. You only get so many chances.

We are paying 20m for Clarkson(taking in Hortons deal) to go away. We can do the same with Babcock.

 

[Trapper]

You guys are all focusing on reasons and not the politics or the financial mismanagement.

It's a business.

This would be a blunder of significant proportions.

Like anything, you can do it, but you have to win.
Change the coach and get to the 2nd/3rd round, it’s no blunder.
Stumble though...

 

[nuck]

Babcock is not the reason Boston won. They finished ahead of the Leafs in the standings, They added at the deadline. Kadri got his ass suspended. Hyman got his knee injured. Gardiner knew he was done and played like he had other things on his mind. He was their #3 LD why did they keep him around? As soon as the club added Muzzin Gards knew he was a dead duck.

Get rid of Brownie and bring in a forward that has something they actually lack. Get a legitimate top 4 RD. Trade Kadri for someone who knows how to pick his spots. They should have won this one in 6 but that isn't on the coach. This was not an Stanley Cup lineup. It was close, but adding more LD when that is one of your two strengths isn't the solution. Stop trying to fix the things that work.

 

[nuck]

Replacing a coach like Babcock shows a commitment to winning. You can't stay married to a mistake just for the sake of not looking dumb

Paying Matthews like a generational talent is a commitment to winning until he gives you 6pts in 7 games. Marner wants generational money and he had 4 pts in 7 games. I am not overly impressed with the coach for sure, but the stars have to play like stars. Babs is not preventing the club's elite players from being elite. I honestly don't think MacKinnon and Rantanen need Jared Bednar to make them effective. That's the scrubs job to be molded into production by the coach. Your stars have to be better than the guy they are facing off against.

 

[KobeBean143]

Why do people keep saying leafs won’t pay Babcock to go away??
1
ya they would, if they think it’s the right move.
2
Someone will hire him and we would only be on the hook for the difference in salary if any at all.

 

[Morgs]

Nylander isn't getting traded because he's a borderline elite player. Not because of money lmao.

 

[Stephen]

I think Nylander and Babcock are most likely back for another year.

Babcock needs to take the summer to think about his own approach. For a details oriented coach who is famed for preparation, he needs to digest what has happened the last three years and be self reflective of what works and what doesn't with this group's strengths and weaknesses. Spamming the stretch pass Hail Mary play needs to be cut.

 

[DopeyFish]

Nylander isn't getting traded because he's a borderline elite player. Not because of money lmao.

exactly

you will sacrifice other players before you touch nylander. those types of players don't come around often.

people should remember from 2009-2014 we had only one player of nylander's calibre. only one. and it came at a terrible cost. we did not draft anyone on that level nor did we sign one on that level that entire time. never ever ever take what you have for granted because you'll likely lose it. and then you're back to where you started.

at this stage of the game, you tinker. that's it. we need to rid ourselves of some salary but you do not touch your high end skill players unless you're getting an equivalent back. we aren't going to get an equivalent back because nylander is so high end that it's ultimately impossible.

i'd trade away first round picks just to remove players like zaitsev and brown in order to keep nylander. anything to get beyond this little hump until $12 million disappears from our roster.

we have some damn good prospects coming up in defense and possibly a couple on offense. i'd rather have nylander there on top of them than looking at our prospects to replace him. all you're doing is circling around for no damn reason. it's wasting your roster. and the ones we have aren't anywhere near as good as him.

 

[Dreakmur]

Nylander isn't getting traded because he's a borderline elite player. Not because of money lmao.

I hope Nylander scores 100 points next year, but has terrible advanced stats.

 

[Duke Silver]

Leafs would only be on the hook for the remainder of Babcock's (front-loaded) deal if he somehow didn't get another job for the next 4 years. So, pretty much a non-issue.

If I were MLSE, I'd feel insulted by the insinuation that I'd feel trapped by a sunk cost fallacy. We should play poker sometime if this is how you think.

And trading Nylander for, say, defensive help could end up saving us money in the long-run or at minimal cost.

Moving Nylander based on his performance would be premature as he's not going to continue shooting at less than half his normal rate. This may remind you of another player who put up back-to-back 30-goal seasons after a down shooting year.

This just feels like inventing problems out of nothing because you want to take swipes at Dubas and Shanahan.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I’ve made a similar case before.

As of July 1st, the leafs will have paid Nylander $20 million for 7 goals and 27 points. There is no way mlse can be happy about that.

Also, the trade off for front loading a contract in such a way is supposed to be a lower cap hit. But Nylander’s cap hit is still far above comparables. At some point, mlse is going to get pissed off at all this needlessly wasted money.

Dubas is already in full damage control over the Nylander dramatic overpayment, taking 100% of the blame for Nylanders abysmal season. This is because Dubas’ fate is now in the hands of Matthews and Nylander.

If Matthews is a mere ppg player next year (paid like a generational elite superstar) and if Nylander is a disgrace again next year... Dubas’s job will be on the line.

 

[TML Dynasty]

The Nylander front loaded contract means we should get better value in a trade...and more suitors for him so that's a good thing. I think the fact we would be selling low on him after this years play is why he stays for a little longer.

Doubling down on a stupid move and being stubborn would also look bad.....and like mentioned above do we really think babs wont get picked up quickly reducing the after cost to us?

This coach was absolutely the correct option for us at the time. Unfortunately the team seems to be hampered by him now. Nothing Shanny has done so far makes me think he is unwilling to make this move.

 

[pylon17]

Put Nylander back on Matthews’ line for a year before trading him.