Avs/Stars Conference Finals in 1999 and 2000

[Jim MacDonald]

Hey guys and gals,

Hope everyone has had a good weekend! Wanted to get your thoughts/feedback on these two western conference finals. Anybody think it was an "upset" either year the Stars won? I guess particularly I think of 2000, the Avs get Bourque and Rob Blake, got great goaltending from Roy to beat my Wings in 5. Drury had in overtime winner in game 5 (I believe in 2000), which put the Avs up 3-2 in that one....Sakic had a tough 2000 postseason, I read he was understandably distracted because his wife was hospitalized with illness. Roy said the Game 7 in 2000 was particularly upsetting because he had "a lot of weird goals go in that game." What do you guys think/remember? Look forward to the thoughts!

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[Admiral Awesome]

I don't think either of Dallas' series wins were really upsets. I really think they were the better team in '99. In 2000, I think the Avs were the slightly better squad, but not that much better as to where their series loss was any kind of upset. Really, it was a case of Belfour outplaying Roy. Still, that game 7 in Dallas in '00 is still probably the most painful loss I've experienced as an Avs fan. When Bourque's shot to tie the game got past Belfour only to ring off the iron in the dying minutes of the 3rd period, my heart sank.

Oh, and the Avs didn't acquire Blake until the following season.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

I don't think either of Dallas' series wins were really upsets. I really think they were the better team in '99. In 2000, I think the Avs were the slightly better squad, but not that much better as to where their series loss was any kind of upset. Really, it was a case of Belfour outplaying Roy. Still, that game 7 in Dallas in '00 is still probably the most painful loss I've experienced as an Avs fan. When Bourque's shot to tie the game got past Belfour only to ring off the iron in the dying minutes of the 3rd period, my heart sank.

Oh, and the Avs didn't acquire Blake until the following season.

*thumbs up* thanks for the info/correction on the Blake acquisition.....wow...to have Blake/Bourque/Foote be able to log 20+ minutes come playoff time in next year's cup run.......mercy! I'll have to hop on youtube or something and see if there's a "long version" of the Game 7 in 2000 or like a "series summary" etc.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Not really, Dallas was peaking hard those two years, with Modano, Zubov, Hatcher and Belfour at the peak of their powers with a good supporting cast.

Dallas wasn't as good in 2000, but Belfour played really great.

I know we're used to think of guys like Sakic and Yzerman as much better than Modano because we compare their career value, but on the actual ice in that timeframe the difference was virtually nonexistent, especially in short playoffs series.Modano was a two-way beast and played crazy high minutes in those playoffs.

 

[Ghetty Green]

From what I remember Dallas was the better team. It forced Colorado to pursue a real #1 defenseman in Blake.

 

[Ivan13]

From what I remember Dallas was the better team. It forced Colorado to pursue a real #1 defenseman in Blake.

What was Ray if not a true #1D? The difference in both those series was Belfour, I still remember Stars fans chanting Eddie's better and they were right. I really did not like that team, to me they were the epitome of everything that was wrong with the dead puck era.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Belfour and Dallas' defenders held the Avalanche to 2 goals or less in 12/14 games. In a 13th, it took Colorado 80 minutes to get that 3rd goal. Win a lot of hockey games with defense like that.

Avalanche Victories
2 GF, 31 SA
3 GF, 45 SA
6 GF, 30 SA
2 GF, 24 SA
2 GF, 21 SA
2 GF, 27 SA

Besides that big Game 5 in 1999, Dallas played tight enough defensively that they could have stolen any one of Colorado's wins for a more lopsided result than back-to-back Game 7s.

Goaltending aside, I felt Dallas played better in 1999 and Colorado played better in 2000 when their defense was much stronger than the year before.

 

[tony d]

Dallas was better in 1999. Thought the Avs would have done it in 2000 though given they had acquired Bourque at the trade deadline.

 

[spacecadet]

Colorado won game 5 and led the series 3-2 in 1999 without Theo Fleury because he was absent w some misterious reason (the follwing year he entered the League's substance abuse program...)
He returned in game 6 and 7, but the Stars overcome and walked away with the Cup in the finals. Fleury was great, but several Avs players felt they would have won that year without him, as Dater revealed in his book. There were some very honest quotes from Lemieux, who tought it was a mistake to break up the chemistry with inserting Fleury back in the lineup for those final 2 games.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Colorado won game 5 and led the series 3-2 in 1999 without Theo Fleury because he was absent w some misterious reason (the follwing year he entered the League's substance abuse program...)
He returned in game 6 and 7, but the Stars overcome and walked away with the Cup in the finals. Fleury was great, but several Avs players felt they would have won that year without him, as Dater revealed in his book. There were some very honest quotes from Lemieux, who tought it was a mistake to break up the chemistry with inserting Fleury back in the lineup for those final 2 games.

interesting. i've never heard that before. but i'm not surprised that a few avs said something. that was a pretty no nonsense team and i imagine they would have felt pretty let down by a guy going off the rails like that in the middle of the third round, that they would have thought it was pretty selfish and there would be hard feelings after he came back into the lineup, especially because no one at the time knew about his demons.

but if i'm reading claude lemieux's comments the right way, if he's implying what i think he's implying, i am surprised that a team with guys like that who had been through all those wars, who had played and won with all kinds of players from gainey and robinson to chelios, from ryan walter to russ courtnall, to stephane richer, to john kodric, to mathieu schneider, and that's a wide gamut, would let those hard feelings affect their performance on the ice.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Belfour and Dallas' defenders held the Avalanche to 2 goals or less in 12/14 games. In a 13th, it took Colorado 80 minutes to get that 3rd goal. Win a lot of hockey games with defense like that.

Avalanche Victories
2 GF, 31 SA
3 GF, 45 SA
6 GF, 30 SA
2 GF, 24 SA
2 GF, 21 SA
2 GF, 27 SA

Besides that big Game 5 in 1999, Dallas played tight enough defensively that they could have stolen any one of Colorado's wins for a more lopsided result than back-to-back Game 7s.

Goaltending aside, I felt Dallas played better in 1999 and Colorado played better in 2000 when their defense was much stronger than the year before.

Real cool/interesting stats here quoi....I think of the Stars' cup win in 99 and see these numbers....I know Nieuwendyk won the Conn Smythe in 99, but now wonder was it that "cut and dry?" Could Belfour have just as easily won it? I'm interested in hopping on the HF reference to look at Eddie the Eagle's playoff numbers that season..

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Colorado won game 5 and led the series 3-2 in 1999 without Theo Fleury because he was absent w some misterious reason (the follwing year he entered the League's substance abuse program...)
He returned in game 6 and 7, but the Stars overcome and walked away with the Cup in the finals. Fleury was great, but several Avs players felt they would have won that year without him, as Dater revealed in his book. There were some very honest quotes from Lemieux, who tought it was a mistake to break up the chemistry with inserting Fleury back in the lineup for those final 2 games.

That book is such a great read! I loved it!

 

[Reality Check]

Most people forget that Dallas finished above Detroit both times during Detroit's cup run before moving to a new division. Dallas was capable to win it all in '98 but that Detroit team wasn't going to be stopped. In addition to it being new territory for Dallas.

You can make the argument that the '00 Dallas might have been a bit of a upset. But I wouldn't consider it one.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Real cool/interesting stats here quoi....I think of the Stars' cup win in 99 and see these numbers....I know Nieuwendyk won the Conn Smythe in 99, but now wonder was it that "cut and dry?" Could Belfour have just as easily won it? I'm interested in hopping on the HF reference to look at Eddie the Eagle's playoff numbers that season..

Oh, for sure. But Nieuwendyk tied the GWG record, so it's hard to overlook. If there's one thing that I think should have gone differently in the playoff project, it's that I don't think enough people gave Ed Belfour his due. From 1995-2000, good luck finding a better goaltender in the Spring. Some of the more meh regular seasons of his career, but in the playoffs, he was an animal.

Most people forget that Dallas finished above Detroit both times during Detroit's cup run before moving to a new division. Dallas was capable to win it all in '98 but that Detroit team wasn't going to be stopped. In addition to it being new territory for Dallas.

Chris Osgood was playing the best hockey of his life. Game 6 was one of those situations where Dallas and Belfour would've trounced just about any other team. Can't be too often Detroit was outshot in a series back in that era, but Dallas could do it.

 

[Sentinel]

That book is such a great read! I loved it!

What book?

 

[blood gin]

Have a lot of respect for those late 90's early 2000s Stars teams. Gritty throwback types. Were a huge pain in the butt for the 2000 Devils. Roster was full of tough, defensively responsible guys who had some scoring punch and did all the little things right. Keane, Morrow, Langenbrunner, Sydor, Matvichuk, Carbonneau, Lehtinen etc

 

[Admiral Awesome]

What book?

I'm assuming "Blood Feud", but I could be wrong.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Sentinel, if you don't have "Blood Feud" yet, you have to pick it up. It's Dater, so it's not as harsh on Lemieux as it could be, but it's good stuff.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

What book?

It's a book, and don't quote me word for word on the title, but something to the effect of "Blood Feud: The Story of Sports' Nastiest Rivalries (Red Wings and Avalanche)" authored by a gentleman named Adrian Dater, who was a one-time beat writer for The Denver Post. Sentinel you will LOVE this book....there's so much I'm biting my lip on that I want to tell you....but the one thing I have to tell you is that the dialogue between Bowman-Crawford between the benches in Game 3 of 1997 is disclosed for the first time in the book....H-I-L-A-R-I-O-U-S!!!!!!

 

[Sentinel]

Is that the one where Bowman told Crawford: "I knew your father before you did, and he would not be proud of you today"?

 

[Jim MacDonald]

Is that the one where Bowman told Crawford: "I knew your father before you did, and he would not be proud of you today"?

hahahaha!!!! yes!!!!!!

 

[Hasbro]

What was Ray if not a true #1D? The difference in both those series was Belfour, era.

You're forgetting Matvichuk.

 

[Jim MacDonald]

You're forgetting Matvichuk.

Matvichuk had solid series in 99 and 00 against the Avs?

 

[quoipourquoi]

Matvichuk had solid series in 99 and 00 against the Avs?

For sure. He and Forsberg were attached at the hip. In Game 4 in 1999, he took out Hejduk's collarbone and Forsberg's shoulder. He was a beast.

 

[Hasbro]

For sure. He and Forsberg were attached at the hip. In Game 4 in 1999, he took out Hejduk's collarbone and Forsberg's shoulder. He was a beast.

The latter being a dirty play, that caused Forsberg shoulder issues for years.

The next year Hartley snidely said Matvichuk deserved the Conn Smythe.