Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 18-19 Part IX l Off-Season

[Patagonia]

Also, hell no to acquiring Lucic. I really liked him as a player a few years ago, but he is slowing down aggressively and he just turned 30. Definite hell no to acquiring Lucic for anything of actual value.

Lucic contract is $6M @ 5 years with a NMC or NTC (8 teams final 2 years) is simply too ugly. If anyone takes this deal, they can't get rid of him unless he waives or bought out.

 

[agentblack]

Wow the possibilities of having a JT Skinner combo would do for the Mack line.

 

[Balthazar]

My problem with this is that the majority of teams where he is going to be a leader are also terrible. Montreal is a rebuilding team that somehow increases their average age, NYR made aggressive moves to rebuild this year he has done the NYI thing for years and that hasn't gone well. STL makes sense, SJS does as well...but their window isn't exactly long. I think NJD also makes some sense, they've got a premiere winger and it's close to home for him.

I know him signing with the Avs is a pipe dream, but I also think they'd be a team that could sell themselves really well, especially if they are able to add a Top-6 winger before FA starts.

Vegas' gotta be front runners. I disagree that they are a dark horse, they made a push to acquire Erik Karlsson at the deadline and they want superstars. They sure have the tools to make a good sale pitch now: Stanley cup contender, low taxes, fun city and the players absolutely love it there. They have cap space, good young guys in the pipeline...

Can't really beat that.

 

[Hasbro]

I'd stay away from Lucic, honestly.

Now there's an understatement on par with "North Korea isn't my first choice for a vacation"

 

[McMetal]

Also, hell no to acquiring Lucic. I really liked him as a player a few years ago, but he is slowing down aggressively and he just turned 30. Definite hell no to acquiring Lucic for anything of actual value.

Definite hell no to acquiring Lucic for anything at all. That contract would cancel out almost all the benefit of MacK's sweetheart deal, I wouldn't take Dahlin in exchange for that.

 

[Freudian]

Avs should be decently set up for next expansion draft. If they add a contract that has to be protected it should be a good player and not an ugly contract.

 

[Balthazar]

Definite hell no to acquiring Lucic for anything at all. That contract would cancel out almost all the benefit of MacK's sweetheart deal, I wouldn't take Dahlin in exchange for that.

That's taking it a bit too far.

 

[Patagonia]

Lucic has a NMC unless he waives, so the AVs need to revise their 7 protected players.

Mack
Rants
Landy
Jost
Compher
Kerfoot

Lucic

Exposed: Kamenev, Soda, Neito, Ghetto and Greer.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Vegas' gotta be front runners. I disagree that they are a dark horse, they made a push to acquire Erik Karlsson at the deadline and they want superstars. They sure have the tools to make a good sale pitch now: Stanley cup contender, low taxes, fun city and the players absolutely love it there. They have cap space, good young guys in the pipeline...

Can't really beat that.

Yeah but they don't have a Nathan MacKinnon

 

[McMetal]

That's taking it a bit too far.

Four years of Lucic means we would be wasting all of the extra cap space we would be gaining from underpaying MacKinnon, as well as all three years of Dahlin's ELC. Basically throwing our entire cap structure out of whack during our best competing years. So no, I don't think that's an overreaction at all.

 

[Balthazar]

Four years of Lucic means we would be wasting all of the extra cap space we would be gaining from underpaying MacKinnon, as well as all three years of Dahlin's ELC. Basically throwing our entire cap structure out of whack during our best competing years. So no, I don't think that's an overreaction at all.

You play him and when we need additional cap space you buy him out. You might miss a couple of years of full cap space because of the buy out penalty but you don't pass on an 18 year old generational defenseman just to save a couple of million of cap space down the road. That's not serious and you know it.

 

[Avs_19]

Keep in mind that Lucic has one of those bonus heavy contracts that are basically buyout proof. You're not getting rid of him that easily if you acquire him so that's one of those contracts you don't touch under any realistic scenario. Players usually don't get better or back into form as they enter their 30's, especially ones who are built like Lucic and play that style.

 

[Hasbro]

Bobby Ryan in a cap dump looks like Adonis compared to Lucic.

Burke, Keenan and Clarke are out of the league so Chia is lacking a gullible size queen to fall into that trap.

 

[Foppa2118]

Give me a break. Both contracts Barrie has signed since his ELC expired have been fair to both the player and the team.

I didn't say he was overpaid. I said he's 2 for 2 so far on drawn out painful contract negotiations. Which is a fact.

The first negotiations after his ELC with one season as an NHL regular under his belt, he and Newport threatened to hold out, finally signing a week before training camp. The second they elected arbitration and went all the way through it before coming to terms on a deal. Both were handled much tougher than most every other player handles their negotiations.

Now he's a pending UFA with a 57 point season under his belt, and the most leverage he's ever had. These are just facts.

 

[dahrougem2]

I didn't say he was overpaid. I said he's 2 for 2 so far on drawn out painful contract negotiations. Which is a fact.

The first negotiations after his ELC with one season as an NHL regular under his belt, he and Newport threatened to hold out, finally signing a week before training camp. The second they elected arbitration and went all the way through it before coming to terms on a deal. Both were handled much tougher than most every other player handles their negotiations.

Now he's a pending UFA with a 57 point season under his belt, and the most leverage he's ever had. These are just facts.

Personally, I don't care if the negotiation is long and painful. Both times it ended up being a fair value contract for both sides. I expect the same once again for Barrie's third deal.

 

[Foppa2118]

Personally, I don't care if the negotiation is long and painful. Both times it ended up being a fair value contract for both sides. I expect the same once again for Barrie's third deal.

The reason it ended up being fair deals each time, is the same reason it could result in Barrie being moved, and the same reason the Avs don't get along that well with Newport. The Avs don't like to cave, and Newport doesn't like to either.

Newport/Barrie eventually had to cave each time. Otherwise they would have had to hold out entering Barrie's second real NHL season, which wouldn't have looked very good. Or take the arbitration ruling in the second negotiation, that pretty clearly was not the number they were hoping for.

So the reason it could be a problem next time is because Barrie and Newport don't have these consequences now. The Avs can't call their bluff because they're not bluffing. They can just go to UFA and get top dollar with a NMC. So now it's the Avs turn to either cave or not cave.

If both sides approach negotiations the same way, it will most likely not go well again, and the Avs will be faced with a decision to either hold onto Barrie his final season and continue to negotiate hoping they drop their asking price, or trade him the summer before.

If they go into his final season with him unsigned, they'd be taking a gamble that he won't get injured and he'll be healthy enough to move at the deadline for full price. Which could also be similar to the St Louis/Stastny situation, which could hurt the locker room and their chances at the playoffs. Plus just weakening the team in a playoff hunt.

Moving Barrie's rights after his final season shouldn't be an option because they'll get pennies on the dollar for him.

This is why speculating about what Barrie could return in trade, isn't the same as just being on a trade Barrie train. It's just looking at the history of both sides butting heads multiple times, and seeing the writing on the wall for that to potentially happen again.

 

[Brett44]

Ghetto and Timmins value isn't the same.

Excuse me i want say add Timmins if Rnh is there.

 

[shadow1]

It's ironic that Tyson Barrie's strong play on the ice provides ammunition for both sides of the debate.

I understand the logic of both sides of the argument. But, it is very difficult for me to envision a scenario in which trading Tyson Barrie results in the 2018-2019 Avalanche being a better team. It would both weaken the club on the ice and in the locker room.

 

[shadow1]

I know many folks want the Avalanche to acquire Mark Stone (and to be honest, I'm one of them).

But what if Joe Sakic set his sights on another Ottawa Senator - Mike Hoffman? Stone is no doubt better, but Hoffman is probably 90% the player and won't cost the truck load that his teammate will.

I think both Mike Hoffman and the oft-discussed Jeff Skinner could both be had for reasonable prices. If Sakic acquired them both players, and thus eradicating the glaring secondary scoring issue, I think Colorado could take a real step forward next year.

 

[Joe Sakic]

It's ironic that Tyson Barrie's strong play on the ice provides ammunition for both sides of the debate.

I understand the logic of both sides of the argument. But, it is very difficult for me to envision a scenario in which trading Tyson Barrie results in the 2018-2019 Avalanche being a better team. It would both weaken the club on the ice and in the locker room.

Agree with this.

Almost impossible to imagine us being better when we are losing a 0.84PPG player from the back end. The dude simply drives offensive opportunities.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I know many folks want the Avalanche to acquire Mark Stone (and to be honest, I'm one of them).

But what if Joe Sakic set his sights on another Ottawa Senator - Mike Hoffman? Stone is no doubt better, but Hoffman is probably 90% the player and won't cost the truck load that his teammate will.

I think both Mike Hoffman and the oft-discussed Jeff Skinner could both be had for reasonable prices. If Sakic acquired them both players, and thus eradicating the glaring secondary scoring issue, I think Colorado could take a real step forward next year.

My issue with both Hoffman and Skinner is that I don't think they're rounded well enough to give extra support to Jost who looks like he's going to be our 2C. I'd rather pay the extra pieces necessary to give Jost elite level support and give the Avs in general top line caliber talent to provide secondary offense.

I want a blanket of security on the 2nd line with Jost. As good as Skinner/Hoffman are at putting the puck in the net, I don't know if they're the right fit on that line. Especially when you consider that that the third piece on that line is likely Andrighetto.

 

[shadow1]

My issue with both Hoffman and Skinner is that I don't think they're rounded well enough to give extra support to Jost who looks like he's going to be our 2C. I'd rather pay the extra pieces necessary to give Jost elite level support and give the Avs in general top line caliber talent to provide secondary offense.

I want a blanket of security on the 2nd line with Jost. As good as Skinner/Hoffman are at putting the puck in the net, I don't know if they're the right fit on that line. Especially when you consider that that the third piece on that line is likely Andrighetto.

Not disagreeing with you - just clarifying I wish Sakic to acquire both players/acquire two top-6 forwards.

Skinner - Jost - Hoffman

 

[Eltuna]

Offer sheets are so rare because they need three ingredients. They need to make sense for the player, make sense for the team offersheeting, and put the players original team in a bind.

Stone just had an awesome year offensively and is great defensively. I would imagaine Ottawa wants to sign him to an 8 year 64 million dollar contract. If the cap goes up to 85 million or so next year and he puts up another good year, he’s looking at an 8 year 80 million dollar contract, plus the one year 8.1 million he would make on the offersheet. That’s 88 million compared to 64 million. That checks off why it makes sense for the player.

For the Avs. One of two things happens. Sens match = EK is definitely gone, this artificially raises the value of the 2019 pick Colorado owns. Or Sens don’t match = Colorado gets a steal of a deal, and the 2019 pick still increases in value since now the Sens lose their best forward. This checks off why it makes sense for the Avs.

For the Sens, this offersheet gives them absolutely zero leverage. Stone basically controls all negotiations. They would be unable to trade him mid season next year, and they would stand to lose 24 million dollars (if the 64 versus 88 million I projected holds true). This checks off why it puts the Sens in a bind.

It’s the only way a team gets Stone, as I don’t think Ottawa will willingly trade him. At least now they have a little leverage since Stone is still an RFA, this OS would be an absolute nightmare for Sens managment.

I posted this earlier on the trade boards, what would posters here think of a 1 year 8.1 million dollar OS for Stone? Getting him for a 2019 1st, 2nd, and a 3rd is an absolute steal and Ottawa would at least have to think about matching this. Instead of going for Stastny, imagine an OS like this than trading 16th + Kamenev for Skinner. A top 6 of

Landeskog Mackinnon Rantanen
Skinner Jost Stone

Sign Skinner to a 7x7, Rantanen to 8x8 and then Stone to a huge contract next summer after the OS is up. I know it’s risky with Stone as an UFA but I would risk it personally. That’s a young top 6 that would all be signed long term. It also properly insulates Jost and puts him in a great position to succeed. It’s insane that the Avs have enough cap space to actually do this btw.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Not disagreeing with you - just clarifying I wish Sakic to acquire both players/acquire two top-6 forwards.

Skinner - Jost - Hoffman

I think
Andrighetto - Jost - Stone
is so much better. Probably costs less to acquire than both Hoffman AND Skinner.

 

[hughdreamz]

So with Montreal supposedly going through a light to a full rebuild, do you think the Avs go after Galchenyuk?

We know at that when the MTL showed interest in Duchene, Sakic’s ask was Sergachev & Galchenyuk. There is interest, I feel he’d fit Bednar’s system, and his value is pretty low right now.

If the market value of Skinner is a 1st + prospect, I think Galchenyuk could be had for the 16th overall.