Rumor: Avs Proposals/Rumors/Free Agents 17-18 Part VIII

[lonelybadger]

If Avs can get Tavares by all mean sign me up, if not aim for a youngish top 6 winger to trade for and try and sign Stastny.

I like Skinner because I think his value will not be as high as some people think because of the pretend concussion proneness, his NMC clause, and only having 1 year left on his deal.

I agree with Rock Lobster as well about Staz, sure he is over 30 but his game is not based on physicality or speed. It is based on hockey IQ and slowing the game down. He is the perfect non Tavares 2C for this team. I would like a guy like Nuge as well but I think he would be too costly.

 

[Piestany88]

My viewpoint, my longtime friend/compadre, is that there really isn't a "wrong" way to go about it, so long as the Avs address that second line. If they want Jost to be that 2C, then they ABSOLUTELY have to get him some better wing support than the likes of Andrighetto/Compher/Kerfoot/Kamanev/etc. Whether that's bringing in 1 winger like a Jeff Skinner/JVR/whatever, or even 2 (which I don't think is likely), or going the "Sign Stastny as the 2C" route and letting Jost play wing like they did with MacKinnon for the first couple of seasons. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Believe me, I understand why people may be apprehensive to signing Stastny, I just happen to believe that he's one of the players that will end up being the exception to the whole "30+ year old players fall off quickly" rule, because he's a really smart player, both offensively and defensively. Personally I think Jost would end up a better 2C if he played WITH Stastny for 1-2 seasons. That's why I'm personally on board with doing that.

I've got nothing against Tyson Jost. I think he's a fine prospect and I certainly hope that he can be a fixture on the Avs. The bottom line is, and it appears like you and I agree on this (one of the few times, eh? ) is that the Avs have to address that second line. They just have to. We can't waste this time period where we have Nathan MacKinnon on a steal of a contract, so if they don't do anything to address it, I feel like they're just going to be stuck spinning their wheels, or worse yet--they'll regress next season.

They can start the season and see how things go and still can make a trade to address the 2nd line winger position throughout the year . Don't forget they have Barrie to dangle at some point

 

[RockLobster]

They can start the season and see how things go and still can make a trade to address the 2nd line winger position throughout the year . Don't forget they have Barrie to dangle at some point

That's an absolute piss-poor way to construct a roster. In-season trades before the deadline are not really that common, don't let the Duchene trade blind you to that.

 

[Raucherhusten]

If we are not upgrading our 2nd line with at least one proven Top 6 talent we are not making the Playoffs and we'll waste another year of Nates contract. It's as simple as that.

 

[Selzoons]

Assuming Karlsson is traded and Stone is willing. If you're going to offer 1st + Greer/Meloche/Compher/Kamenev for Skinner, wouldn't an 5yx$8M offer sheet for Stone be flat out better? They're the same age. Skinner is a better goal scorer but Stone is better at everything else. Prospect > 2nd due to development time, improving the OTT '19 1st more than offsets the 3rd.

Stone can anchor a line and help insulate a young player like Jost, which means the Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantenen line could be kept intact.

Lock up Rantanen this year and any retaliatory offer sheet would be mitigated because an unprotected OTT '20 or '21 1st would be a valuable piece. Without Karlsson and Stone, Duchene would probably leave and then we'd have another lottery ticket.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush but feel it would be a missed opportunity. Stone just fits better (and I'd be more comfortable with Stone @ $8M/year than Skinner @ $7M/year):

Pipe dream scenario
Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantenen
Jost - Tavares - Stone/Skinner

Stone would help mitigate Tavares' poor 200 ft game.

Semi-realistic scenario
Jost - MacKinnon - Rantenen
Landeskog - Stastny - Stone/Skinner

Stone would allow you to form a legit shutdown line with Stastny and free up MacKinnon.

Avs' miss out on Tavares/Stastny scenario
Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantenen
x - Jost - Stone/Skinner

Stone would allow you to try Jost as the 2C while Stone takes some of the defensive duties.

(Hypothetically speaking because I doubt Sakic would tender an offer sheet.)

 

[EdAVSfan]

Assuming Karlsson is traded and Stone is willing. If you're going to offer 1st + Greer/Meloche/Compher/Kamenev for Skinner, wouldn't an 5yx$8M offer sheet for Stone be flat out better? They're the same age. Skinner is a better goal scorer but Stone is better at everything else. Prospect > 2nd due to development time, improving the OTT '19 1st more than offsets the 3rd.

Stone can anchor a line and help insulate a young player like Jost, which means the Landeskog-MacKinnon-Rantenen line could be kept intact.

Lock up Rantanen this year and any retaliatory offer sheet would be mitigated because an unprotected OTT '20 or '21 1st would be a valuable piece. Without Karlsson and Stone, Duchene would probably leave and then we'd have another lottery ticket.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush but feel it would be a missed opportunity. Stone just fits better (and I'd be more comfortable with Stone @ $8M/year than Skinner @ $7M/year):

Pipe dream scenario
Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantenen
Jost - Tavares - Stone/Skinner

Stone would help mitigate Tavares' poor 200 ft game.

Semi-realistic scenario
Jost - MacKinnon - Rantenen
Landeskog - Stastny - Stone/Skinner

Stone would allow you to form a legit shutdown line with Stastny and free up MacKinnon.

Avs' miss out on Tavares/Stastny scenario
Landeskog - MacKinnon - Rantenen
x - Jost - Stone/Skinner

Stone would allow you to try Jost as the 2C while Stone takes some of the defensive duties.

(Hypothetically speaking because I doubt Sakic would tender an offer sheet.)

Because simply, Stone is unlikely to sign something like that.

And Ottawa surely isn’t going to let him go for that contract.

 

[Piestany88]

That's an absolute piss-poor way to construct a roster. In-season trades before the deadline are not really that common, don't let the Duchene trade blind you to that.

No but trades at the deadline are common

 

[lonelybadger]

Is Tavares really that bad defensively?

 

[EdAVSfan]

No but trades at the deadline are common

So you wanna wait 60 games into the season to address a major problem?

 

[RockLobster]

No but trades at the deadline are common

Ok, so your plan is to just "just see what happens" and if it's not working out (which I'd say is likely because Jost just doesn't appear ready for the 2C role, and if Ghetto and Compher/Kamenev/Kerfoot/etc are his linemates then he's being set up to fail), then to just ride it out to the trade deadline and make moves then?

You realize by then that in your scenario it's more likely the Avs will have regressed and not be playoff bound. The idea is to use the MacKinnon contract, since he's on a steal of a deal, to make their move.

Doing nothing and then waiting until the deadline is, once again, a piss-poor way to construct a roster. Especially when Sakic can make some moves now to address the holes that are evident.

 

[lonelybadger]

Sakic definitely knows he needs help down the middle, If Stastny or Tavares would sign with the Avs he is going to sign them. It does not push Jost out, it would push Soda out and not even this year.

 

[RockLobster]

Sakic definitely knows he needs help down the middle, If Stastny or Tavares would sign with the Avs he is going to sign them. It does not push Jost out, it would push Soda out and not even this year.

While I personally think they should sign Stastny (not sure JT is even an option, tbh), the main goal for them should be to bring in help and stabilize the 2nd line. So whether that's make Jost the 2C and get wing help, or sign Stastny and have Jost continue on the Wing for a bit, in the long run the goal should be to just simply address the second line.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If we are not upgrading our 2nd line with at least one proven Top 6 talent we are not making the Playoffs and we'll waste another year of Nates contract. It's as simple as that.

Unless more than 1 forward makes significant progress next year I tend to agree.


That or Varlamov and EJ stay healthy all year, could have a big effect as well. But that's pretty unlikely at this point.

 

[henchman21]

My main thought... if you can get Stastny to stabilize the 2nd line center spot, you do it. Or even if you can somehow swing a trade for a solid 2nd line center that fits, do it. If those don't materialize, at very least one top 6 level wing needs brought in... and two would be better. As a fall back if they didn't land Stastny, pulling in Skinner and Riley Nash/Comeau/Ryan would set the top 9 up fairly well. The latter are not 2nd line players, but solid 3rd liners that can play up in spurts. Not ideal, but they provide some insulation and none would be very expense or have a ton of term.

 

[OwenNolan]

If we are not upgrading our 2nd line with at least one proven Top 6 talent we are not making the Playoffs and we'll waste another year of Nates contract. It's as simple as that.

How can you honestly say that?

All our young guys have 1 more year of experience.

We almost beat Nashville without our #1 dman and our top 2 goalies.

Even if we stand pat this team will compete.

 

[henchman21]

How can you honestly say that?

All our young guys have 1 more year of experience.

We almost beat Nashville without our #1 dman and our top 2 goalies.

Even if we stand pat this team will compete.

Because progression frequently isn't linear. MacK could regress. Soda could drop off a cliff. Kerfoot is unlikely to put up 45 points. EJ has a yearly injury... so does Varly (and who knows if out backup will be Bernier quality). I don't think it is as black and white as saying add or regress, but I do think not adding puts the whole team behind the 8 ball and is an inherently risky strategy.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

One year of extra experience does not automatically mean the young kids are going to be better...


Certainly not when they're thrust into high pressure roles(Like being the 2C without good 2nd line wingers surrounding you) without insulation around them.



Avs are simply not deep enough offensively and with way too much of a question mark defensively to be a playoff team next year as it stands right now. They need help. Simple as that.

 

[agentblack]

How can you honestly say that?

All our young guys have 1 more year of experience.

We almost beat Nashville without our #1 dman and our top 2 goalies.

Even if we stand pat this team will compete.

I agree with you in principle , but I do think some regression is going to happen, so i believe bringing in some legitimate upgrades on offense and defense should in theory prevent against that.

 

[Piestany88]

Ok, so your plan is to just "just see what happens" and if it's not working out (which I'd say is likely because Jost just doesn't appear ready for the 2C role, and if Ghetto and Compher/Kamenev/Kerfoot/etc are his linemates then he's being set up to fail), then to just ride it out to the trade deadline and make moves then?

You realize by then that in your scenario it's more likely the Avs will have regressed and not be playoff bound. The idea is to use the MacKinnon contract, since he's on a steal of a deal, to make their move.

Doing nothing and then waiting until the deadline is, once again, a piss-poor way to construct a roster. Especially when Sakic can make some moves now to address the holes that are evident.

We were fine scoring goals last year and with another year under our young guys belts and growth ,I believe the plan is to stay the course . I believe Jost is gonna progress but ideally yes working on the 2nd line is the plan but let's see how things go before we overpay to get Skinner or overpay Tavares or Stastny for 2nd line c . We drafted Jost for exactly this reason and already replaced Stastny with Soderberg who was better than Stasnty last year. So we wanna overpay Stastny , who walked on us already to take ice time from an up and coming Jost ? Have some logic and patience to stay the course.

If Skinner was so damn valuable would the canes be looking to get rid of him ?
And like I say Barrie will be shopped at some point , he's the best asset to address 2nd line help with someone then.

Not to mention , Kerfoot had 43 points and Skinner 49 and is 3 years older and way more expensive. 1guy we got for free and the other you want to trade the 16 pick plus a prospect ? Wow , thats supposed to be good management?

 

[RockLobster]

Kerfoot's point totals really need to be looked at in context. Henchy already wrote one really in-depth post about it. Basically the guy, while he is obviously talented and IS an NHL player, got extremely lucky and scored some goals/got a good amount of points in pure garbage time situations.

Skinner is head-and-shoulder better than Kerfoot. Plus, I've never said I wanted to trade the 16th pick + for him.

 

[Piestany88]

Sakic definitely knows he needs help down the middle, If Stastny or Tavares would sign with the Avs he is going to sign them. It does not push Jost out, it would push Soda out and not even this year.

Isn't Soda already replacing Stastny though . Maybe it would push Stastny out

 

[henchman21]

If Skinner was so damn valuable would the canes be looking to get rid of him ?

You could say that for any player to be traded ever...

 

[Piestany88]

So you wanna wait 60 games into the season to address a major problem?

You could say that for any player to be traded ever...

I'm all for addressing it at the draft by moving Barrie but if it takes until the deadline and it helps long-term , which is the plan then why not

 

[Piestany88]

Not that Im advocating the top line being split up but the possibility is there to move Landy down with Jost. There are options

 

[agentblack]

Kerfoot's point totals really need to be looked at in context. Henchy already wrote one really in-depth post about it. Basically the guy, while he is obviously talented and IS an NHL player, got extremely lucky and scored some goals/got a good amount of points in pure garbage time situations.

Skinner is head-and-shoulder better than Kerfoot. Plus, I've never said I wanted to trade the 16th pick + for him.

Yeah thats a tough one to swallow. I visit the Canes forum every now and then and (I guess he's eligible for an extension in ...3 1/2 weeks?) and a poster said he liked the the 16th and Kam proposal that gets thrown around. I mean for all Skinner brings id have to see what player is available then, we could get lucky and a good one falls to us we cant pass on. ..which seems unlikely but id rather know than not.