Post-Game Talk: Avs 6 - Jets 3, Avs win Series 4-1

[MardyBum]

OK, but playoff Hellebuyck gets outplayed by .900 level goalies almost every damn time. It's the 1/5 (Edmonton in the bubble) where he outplayed the lesser goalie. So this isn't variance, this is Fivebuyck sucks in the playoffs. He puts up the arrogant "my s*** doesn't stink" exterior ... I don't know if he's actually a guy who just collapses under pressure underneath, or if he's so arrogant that he doesn't think he needs to put in effort post-season or what. But he's a problem, this series wasn't a one-off.

How many series have the Jets outplayed the opposing team?

This one? No
Vegas? Nope
Montreal? Nope
Edmonton? Nope
Calgary? From my memory no but happy to be proven wrong
St. Louis? Closer one but iirc no
Vegas in 18? Yep but Fleury did to us what Hellebuyck did to Edmonton.
Nashville? Close, tossup.
Minnesota? Yep
Anaheim? Nope

6 years since there were consistently good performances.

I'm seeing a trend here too .

The whole team needs to step it up in the playoffs, it's getting kinda depressing

 

[ERYX]

How many series have the Jets outplayed the opposing team?

This one? No
Vegas? Nope
Montreal? Nope
Edmonton? Nope
Calgary? From my memory no but happy to be proven wrong
St. Louis? Closer one but iirc no
Vegas in 18? Yep but Fleury did to us what Hellebuyck did to Edmonton.
Nashville? Close, tossup.
Minnesota? Yep
Anaheim? Nope

6 years since there were consistently good performances.

I'm seeing a trend here too .

The whole team needs to step it up in the playoffs, it's getting kinda depressing

Yes, whole team INCLUDING Fivebuyck, is terrible and crumples like single-ply toilet paper every playoffs since 2018. Major changes need to be made. My only point is that Fivebuyck is part of the problem.

 

[Jets 31]

Just like Vegas in the WCF a few years ago.

And Fleury stood on his head and out played Helly.

 

[LowLefty]

I honestly think it's time for Chevy to go as well. We could use a fresh perspective. He's had over a decade at the helm, most organizations would have changed their senior leadership just to bring in new ideas by now.

I agree - because he's really the guy that is pulling all the strings.
If he stays, you can pretty much expect any and all future coaches to be in the same boat as Bones - so hoping / wishing for change behind the bench won't really matter - they will all play the players Chevy provides - or they could find themselves out of a job.
I think the org is very much aware of this - and that might be the reason they rarely consider a coaching change.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Giving up a 1st and 2nd for one playoff win is a disaster as well. Toffoli was horrendous, Monahan was meh at best.

Chevy needs to wear some blame here too.

 

[JetsUK]

I'd be surprised if Chevy moves on from Bones (although bones may walk anyway).
Bones played the players Chevy picked up at / near the deadline and went with Chevy's moves.
He also played Pionk (who Chevy paid $6M) and ran with the goaltender who chevy paid $8.5m.
Scheif played with who he wants to play with (after Chevy signed him long term to $8.5M).
The org is structured to do what ever is needed to keep the key players happy (the guys Chevy paid) and Bones just did what he was expected to do.
He didn't freak out like last year (live and learn) and pretty much followed the plan of what this org expects the coach to do - keep them all happy, play the guys that are getting paid, and no negative feedback on key players (which is the same as rubbing Chevy's face in his decisions).

I get that Bones will take the blame (or a lot of it) from the fans. But let's see what Chevy has to say as we close out the year - I'd be almost willing to bet that Chevy will spin it to support the decisions Chevy made and we'll hear more about the 110 pt reg season than we will about the PO's. The only comment you will hear on the PO's is how we ran into a very strong Aves team and did our best.

Perfetti might be the outlier - Bones didn't play him as much as some would like (and you for sure), but when you think about it, Chevy was the guy that pretty much pulled 91 out of the lineup with his deadline pickups - all Bones really did was play the hand he was dealt.

Good post and agree for the most part -- Toffoli, why? -- but Chevy did not coach this series, and he doesn't pick the team. He didn't sit new acquisition Miller like he'd forgotten his name, run Sam on his offhand and bungle the lines just as they got some traction. He didn't play a tweener in AJF over the kid who potted nearly 40 points and was hungry af to play. He didn't let the PK die on the vine for AN ENTIRE SEASON without fixing it.

Bones did what he could, and deserves plenty of praise, but he coached this series like a guy who wanted to lose it, with erratic roster, lineup and tactical decisions for the entirety, and zero ownership of any of it.

I'd be fine to say adieu to both of 'em, but Chevy's going nowhere. So it's goodbye and golden parachute for Bones. And welcome Scott Arniel.

 

[John Agar]

Yes he did have good series for the Avs, and the goal he scored on sieve Helly was a great tip!

No agar or Jet last night, did they switch team loyalties?

I went to bed...

My Spider sense was tingling...

I needed My rest... and my intuition was the Jets would find a way to lose...

And unlike the Jets the 3 previous games...

I had worked my ass off all day accomplishing a number of great things... and deserved rest...

Pionk is an enemy mole... found a way for the Jets to lose...

I am well rested today... ready once again to kick ass...

Have a good summer Sip'...

 

[surixon]

I agree - because he's really the guy that is pulling all the strings.
If he stays, you can pretty much expect any and all future coaches to be in the same boat as Bones - so hoping / wishing for change behind the bench won't really matter - they will all play the players Chevy provides - or they could find themselves out of a job.
I think the org is very much aware of this - and that might be the reason they rarely consider a coaching change.

Good point. May also explain why he goes for similar type coaches.

 

[Jets 31]

How many series have the Jets outplayed the opposing team?

This one? No
Vegas? Nope
Montreal? Nope
Edmonton? Nope
Calgary? From my memory no but happy to be proven wrong
St. Louis? Closer one but iirc no
Vegas in 18? Yep but Fleury did to us what Hellebuyck did to Edmonton.
Nashville? Close, tossup.
Minnesota? Yep
Anaheim? Nope

6 years since there were consistently good performances.

I'm seeing a trend here too .

The whole team needs to step it up in the playoffs, it's getting kinda depressing

Especially in front of our great fans, the atmosphere and noise and the Whiteout is without compare. Can you imagine the arena in a Stanley Cup final? I really want to see and hear that one day damnit .

 

[Channelcat]

And that might be a tough record to beat, considering it wasn’t already done by stand-up goalies in the 80s!

It's a bit hard to believe. 1985 EDM/CHI had 69 goals!

 

[Hobble]

It's a bit hard to believe. 1985 EDM/CHI had 69 goals!

To be fair, I think the record is the most goals in their first 5 playoff games, isn’t it?

 

[Channelcat]

I honestly think it's time for Chevy to go as well. We could use a fresh perspective. He's had over a decade at the helm, most organizations would have changed their senior leadership just to bring in new ideas by now.

With regards to Cole, he was already dropped down the lineup by Bones long before we got Tofolli. I'd argue Bones usage of him forced Chevy's hand at the deadline. But I don't expect we see the same next year. I think Cole passed Bones's tests with flying colors this year and will be in the coaches in crowd next year much like how Robertson and Hintz did in Dallas after a similar process.

Chevy could have any job in the league...... So wouldn't shock me if he moved on.

 

[Gm0ney]

IMO Hellebuyck deserved to be crapped on and people need to stop giving him a free pass.

A tweet from Garret Hohl was posted saying that 1/5 or 20% of the time a "true true .900" goalie will outplay a "true talent .920 goalie".

Helle has only outplayed the other team's goalie about 20% of the time (Edmonton bubble series, 2017 rounds 1 and 2, versus every other playoff series he's been in) so it's clear at this point that the "variance" is Helle having a good playoff series, NOT, Helle completely pooping the bed and setting an all-time NHL record for most goals allowed in a playoff series.

The playoff samples are so small, though, that it's still most likely variance. But he totally blew it this year...worst performance by a Jets goalie in the playoffs since Pavelec in 2014-15.

 

[Channelcat]

To be fair, I think the record is the most goals in their first 5 playoff games, isn’t it?

Ahhh that must be it.

 

[JetsUK]

I agree - because he's really the guy that is pulling all the strings.
If he stays, you can pretty much expect any and all future coaches to be in the same boat as Bones - so hoping / wishing for change behind the bench won't really matter - they will all play the players Chevy provides - or they could find themselves out of a job.
I think the org is very much aware of this - and that might be the reason they rarely consider a coaching change.

May well be. That might be even scarier. Argh.

Can't fire the owner.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Chevy could have any job in the league...... So wouldn't shock me if he moved on.

No he couldn't lol.

I understand Chevy is a bit hamstrung by circumstances of being a GM in Winnipeg but the dude has won like 3 playoff series in 13 years and somehow he can get any job in the league?

 

[LowLefty]

Good post and agree for the most part, but Chevy did not coach this series, and he doesn't pick the team.

Bones did what he could, and deserves plenty of praise, but he coached this series like a guy who wanted to lose it, with erratic roster, lineup and tactical decisions for the entirety, and zero ownership of any of it.

I'd be fine to say adieu to both of 'em, but Chevy's going nowhere. So it's goodbye and golden parachute for Bones. And welcome Scott Arniel.

Chevy does pick the team - when he is trading away our future for assets, you can bet he expects them to be on the ice - so I disagree completely with any notion that Chevy is not pulling the strings in this org - the coach is simply playing the players Chevy is brings in.
I won't argue that Bones is likely on his way out - but don't be surprised if it's his decision and not Chevy's.
My post wasn't an attempt to get into all the "tactical" coach stuff - more about the players he iced and why. You can view this from a bunch of different angles but most of the on ice decisions appear to be based on players that Chevy added late - at least for the most part and without getting into the weeds.

 

[DRW204]

No he couldn't lol.

I understand Chevy is a bit hamstrung by circumstances of being a GM in Winnipeg but the dude has won like 3 playoff series in 13 years and somehow he can get any job in the league?

it's not on chevy... it's on the players that are acquired or drafted and signed, and the coaches that are hired & their decisions..

 

[Gm0ney]

I honestly think it's time for Chevy to go as well. We could use a fresh perspective. He's had over a decade at the helm, most organizations would have changed their senior leadership just to bring in new ideas by now.

With regards to Cole, he was already dropped down the lineup by Bones long before we got Tofolli. I'd argue Bones usage of him forced Chevy's hand at the deadline. But I don't expect we see the same next year. I think Cole passed Bones's tests with flying colors this year and will be in the coaches in crowd next year much like how Robertson and Hintz did in Dallas after a similar process.

Zero chance of Chevy going - even if this was an organization willing to do whatever's necessary to win, there's no way a GM's getting fired after finishing 4th in the NHL, no matter how disgraceful their playoff performance was.

I agree that Perfetti has finished eating the shit sandwich prepared from him by Bowness. He'll be welcomed into the zero-accountability crowd next season (*offer not valid for Danish players). This is how Bones created Kucherov, after all...

 

[Jets 31]

Giving up a 1st and 2nd for one playoff win is a disaster as well. Toffoli was horrendous, Monahan was meh at best.

Chevy needs to wear some blame here too.

I didn't mind the Monahan trade during the regular season, we definitely needed a little help at center but Toffoli never turned out. I would think being a GM in Winnipeg is tough considering more than half the players don't want to come here. If Chevy did absolutely nothing and we got kicked like this people would be saying if only Chevy made some additions we could have won, what a waste. Bowness made some really questionable lineup decisions that i think was more of a problem .

 

[Crocket]

When you play a Stanley Cup contender you can see your weaknesses highlighted. The AVS came in humble, Nate admitted they were worried and knew they had to play 100 to win.

We came in with the wrong mindset.

We were in every game until the 3rd period, for the most part. Stanley had a parade to the box, bad calls or not, you can't get them.

It doesn't fall on one player. But not having Perfetti and Miller in the lineup is alarming in hindsight. Losing Dillon didn't help.

But the AVS were stellar. People venting about where Ehlers was in the lineup don't realize it would have made no difference, he has 4 goals in almost 40 playoff games.

The AVS were bigger, stronger, faster and shot the puck from everywhere. When you outplay your opponent that badly, you don't need a vezina goalie, you just need a good goalie.

We're a good team, look how the Canucks changed with the right coach.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Giving up a 1st and 2nd for one playoff win is a disaster as well. Toffoli was horrendous, Monahan was meh at best.

Chevy needs to wear some blame here too.

If you were not calling these trades a disaster back when they were made, you have no right to be calling them disaster after the dust settles and hindsight on your side.

No one on here was knocking either trade when we won 8 in a row heading into playoffs or when Monahan gave us a legit 2nd line center.

The trade was not the reason we lost this series, we had 10 players that underperformed in this series.

You make those trades each and every time you are in the exact situation we were in and live with the results.

To label these trades a disaster is silly as well. For all you know, we just gave up a Kristin Vesalainen, Lukas Sutter and Jack Glover for 2 legit NHL top 6 players.

 

[Buffdog]

People who are advocating for firing chevy should be careful what they ask for

Sure, the next hire could do a better job. But there are also a bunch of Dubas/Trevillings out there waiting to get hired. The next guy could do a MUCH worse job

 

[Channelcat]

No he couldn't lol.

I understand Chevy is a bit hamstrung by circumstances of being a GM in Winnipeg but the dude has won like 3 playoff series in 13 years and somehow he can get any job in the league?

Because he has earned respect among people who actually understand hockey.

 

[JetsUK]

Chevy does pick the team - when he is trading away our future for assets, you can bet he expects them to be on the ice - so I disagree completely with any notion that Chevy is not pulling the strings in this org - the coach is simply playing the players Chevy is brings in.
I won't argue that Bones is likely on his way out - but don't be surprised if it's his decision and not Chevy's.
My post wasn't an attempt to get into all the "tactical" coach stuff - more about the players he iced and why. You can view this from a bunch of different angles but most of the on ice decisions appear to be based on players that Chevy added late - at least for the most part and without getting into the weeds.

IDK. Feel like the usage of Miller suggests that Bones got to pick the players, and didn't pick 'em well, and suspect that we saw a further addition in Toffoli b/c Bowness didn't trust Perfetti -- but like you I can't really be arsed to argue the point in any detail.

Let's agree that both GM and coaching staff need a long hard look -- and then maybe agree that GM and likely some or all coaches stick around.