Post-Game Talk: Avs 5 - Jets 2, Series tied at 1

[Mighty Makar]

Avs had a ton of high danger opportunities last night and Helly held us in it for most of the game. I don't think his numbers tell the story in this series.

I think he played decent. He’ll steal a game for you guys in Denver. He’s too good.

 

[Zippity]

Hellebyuck needs to be better. Ehlers doesn't know how to play playoff hockey. Toffoli is pure useless.

Replace Ehlers with Perfetti, and give Helle a rest also

 

[PhilJets]

Connor Hellybuyck one of my favorite has not been good the last two games. But so did basically the whole team.
Except some spurts by
Scheifele
Connor
Lowry
Morrissey

but it needs to be more , like the whole game, 60 minutes like their last game vs the avs (during the regular season). Probably the avs watched that game and disected how to beat the Jets system.

Now its the Jets turn now to adjust to beat the avs. If they dont it looks like the Vegas series again.

Both teams are very good team just separated by 1.5 wins during the regular season.
Whoever will come out of this series is the team that can adjust.

Unless vezina helly shows up the rest of the way.

The last two goals vs. Helly in game two was freakin mental lapses that should not happen in the playoffs!!!

Game one, i mentioned to clear the crease as 3 goals from that game someone was bothering Helly in front with one goal an avs player having direct contact with him.
that 2nd goals against him was a deflection.
The first. goal was a great goal off the faceoff bangbang.

 

[ecolad]

Gotta take some of the focus off Helle`s performance guys. Yes, he has not played up to our lofty expectations -but there is every probability he will bounce back IF the team starts playing better in front of him.

I think it`s interesting that the Jet`s are not giving up goals on the rush (as might be expected with a speedy team like the Avs) but are definitely struggling with almost everything in their defensive zone. All of the Av`s lines have outplayed them and have retained possession for lengthy periods while cycling high and low. Also, the Av`s have successfully pressured the netfront, forming effective screens and searching for rebounds, often with our D outnumbered. This is an old problem that surfaces whenever we are pressured by fast, heavy,skilled teams and is an outgrowth of the way our C`s read/react to what is going on below the circles and behind the net. Damn, I hate saying this, but Scheif appears totally lost far too often when the bad guys have the puck.

 

[Ggg99]

Helle is one of our best players year over year, but we need to be honest. He’s killing us when we really need him.

View attachment 858919

Sure.... present facts to win an argument.

So we start LB now? With a Vezina winner as our back-up goalie. We may not win the cup but damn, nobody can match our depth.

I doubt Bones would do that. And Helly is REALLY due for a redemption game now.

 

[Do or Die]

Our D has looked like spaghetti, in our end.......other than JM, you can almost feel the panic, out there.....

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

Got a good feeling about Friday night.

- Boys are back on the road without the distractions of the home ice spectacle

- Bones will likely just roll the lines, no galaxy brain line matchups he can control

- 2nd line is due for a big game. I think they score 2+, too much talent and experience to not show up at this point in the series

 

[surixon]

For the record, I'm mostly questioning the narrative that there's absolutely no circumstance where LB gets a game. That it's preposterous to even suggest. Yes, the scenario in which he does would have to be worse case, so maybe it's irrelevant, as I have major faith good things are yet to unfold during this series. Like I said, if we didn't have an amazing backup, there's no discussion. But we do, so I think it's fair there is.

CH is a victim of the lofty standards he himself has set. He's held to a higher standard because we know what he's capable of. I'd make the argument he's underperformed in the playoffs because he hasn't consistently been at the peak of his powers. In the last 2 games, I don't think he's played terrible, but he hasn't played great. If he prevents Colorado's third and fourth goals, Jets are likely heading to Denver up 2 zip. Personally I don't know if I can agree that he's been elite yet in the playoffs. Maybe the stats back it up, but I don't consider him the main reason we went on our longest postseason run. The best goaltenders to ply their trade steal games and defy logic in what they're able to keep out of the net. They can single handedly take a team to victory, despite how everyone else is playing. He hasn't fit that bill thus far and I think this group requires it from him. If and when CH finds that zone, it likely means a Cup.

He finished top 3 among starters in goals saved above expected in each of the 17-18 playoffs and the bubble year 20-21 playoffs. The goalies who finished ahead of him those years where MAF, Holtby, Price, and Vas. So three hall of famers and another top end goalie. Pretty good company. He won the Edmonton series almost singlehandedly if your looking for steals. So essentially this team has only done something in the playoffs when Helle was in vezina form.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

Sure.... present facts to win an argument.

So we start LB now? With a Vezina winner as our back-up goalie. We may not win the cup but damn, nobody can match our depth.

I doubt Bones would do that. And Helly is REALLY due for a redemption game now.

Regular season
.921 save percentage
2.39 GAA

Current playoffs
.870 save percentage
5.04 GAA

Was this really necessary to post?

I’m thinking if we lose the next one with a stinker or two let in, we may need to put in LB.

 

[JetsFan815]

He finished top 3 among starters in goals saved above expected in each of the 17-18 playoffs and the bubble year 20-21 playoffs. The goalies who finished ahead of him those years where MAF, Holtby, Price, and Vas. So three hall of famers and another top end goalie. Pretty good company. He won the Edmonton series almost singlehandedly if your looking for steals. So essentially this team has only done something in the playoffs when Helle was in vezina form.

This whole Helle discourse kinda exposes the entitlement of the fans that they expect the man to perform like a HoF goalie every night. Helle has only conceded 1 goal above expected so far this series, Avs goalie has conceded 4.5 goals above expected. Maybe instead of focusing on Helle we should ask our players to play half way competent D and for our supposed defensive specialist coach to get some defense out of this roster.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Here's what I don't understand.

From what I've listened to, most involved with Jets media are putting the kibosh on Brossoit potentially getting a start. Even though they've also acknowledged CH has underperformed in the NHL playoffs during his career, thus far. "Not a chance" they say.

Why? I've been saying, he needs to be on his game. I'd put it as the most important key to the teams success. First two games he's had solid starts to the opening period, but hasn't put a complete performance together. His mistake playing the puck was a culmination of errors, not entirely on him, but it's the main reason a goal is scored. The breakaway in the dying seconds must be stopped, especially after giving up the third the way he does. Deflating. It's a tough lot being a goalie, but that's nature of the position.

I don't want to sound like I'm being overly critical, it's only been two games. I'm pulling for the guy to bounce back and he deserves time to do so. But let's just say he plays poorly in game 3, then 4. Poor enough that you can pin it on his play as a primary reason. Do you not give LB the nod at that point? What's the worst that can happen if you're already in a 3-1 hole (God forbid)? We lose again? LB could run with his chance and play out of his gourd. If he was terrible in relief all year, sure, you don't even contemplate it. But he's been unreal, filling in for a guy who's likely to win a second Vezina.

So what if CH has the big contract or how he would feel about it? If it's become that dire, he should have a decent idea why he's sitting on the bench. Maybe they're coming at it with inside information, already knowing the org is going to live and die with their big money man. To me, it's about giving the team the best chance to win, not optics.

Lets hope this becomes a non issue soon.

Why put LB in if we are in a 3-1 series hole?
You then have the guy playing behind a team that’s checked out.
LB deserves the next start, get Helle keyed up and chomping at the bit to get his net back.
A change in goal puts everyone on notice.
Nothing wrong with changing the status quo.

 

[Ggg99]

Regular season
.921 save percentage
2.39 GAA

Current playoffs
.870 save percentage
5.04 GAA

Was this really necessary to post?

I’m thinking if we lose the next one with a stinker or two let in, we may need to put in LB.

No and no.

I have faith he reverts to form. That’s just me.

I do like LB too.

 

[Zippity]

Did LB play any regular season games against Avalanche?

 

[Atoyot]

Regular season
.921 save percentage
2.39 GAA

Current playoffs
.870 save percentage
5.04 GAA

Was this really necessary to post?

I’m thinking if we lose the next one with a stinker or two let in, we may need to put in LB.

Sample sizes.

 

[WolfHouse]

Well when the appropriate play, the play im sure the vast majority of teams employ is to drive the puck deep and pressure the opponent to allow your team to change and then change yourself, perhaps Monahan was expecting Ehlers to, you know, stick to the plan and not go for a swim

So he was expecting ehlers to maintain puck possession like he does 90% of the time... and ehlers was deep in the o zone... makes sense now

 

[Ggg99]

Well when the appropriate play, the play im sure the vast majority of teams employ is to drive the puck deep and pressure the opponent to allow your team to change and then change yourself, perhaps Monahan was expecting Ehlers to, you know, stick to the plan and not go for a swim

 

[ThinIce61]

Vegas leaving no "Stone" unturned in beating Dallas. Whoever wins at least if we get by the Crapalanche one our greater nemeses will have been dispatched.

Leafs lose so I'm kind of giddy.

 

[Keystone]

Playoffs start and guys will take a lot more punishment in front of Helle than they otherwise would. For a goalie it is a different game. Add to that about 20 tons of pressure he faces to live up to Vezina status.

I can see the value of changing goalies only to make us wake up defensively. But... I also fear ruining Helle's confidence. He got us here and we have to ride him all the way.

I don’t think that man’s confidence in himself could be possibly be shattered from some of his interviews.

 

[Ponds]

He finished top 3 among starters in goals saved above expected in each of the 17-18 playoffs and the bubble year 20-21 playoffs. The goalies who finished ahead of him those years where MAF, Holtby, Price, and Vas. So three hall of famers and another top end goalie. Pretty good company. He won the Edmonton series almost singlehandedly if your looking for steals. So essentially this team has only done something in the playoffs when Helle was in vezina form.

Admittedly I have no frame of reference for any of the bubble hockey. Sports were of no interest to me during that time. If he was the catalyst for the sweep against Edmonton, that's excellent. It means he's done it before.

Aside from a shutout against Minnesota in 2018, I genuinely don't remember him stealing games during that run (maybe he did.. I was really drunk at the time). I'm not saying he didn't play well either. How I look back on 17/18 was the Jets were a powerhouse and they had (and still have) a good goaltender. Which resulted in our best postseason ever. I don't consider it to have been on the back of CH's play though and I think all of that can be true.

Maybe I'm wrong, this is only my opinion. Truthfully, most of the time I feel like I don't know js in the grand scheme of things, so don't take my word for it.

This whole Helle discourse kinda exposes the entitlement of the fans that they expect the man to perform like a HoF goalie every night. Helle has only conceded 1 goal above expected so far this series, Avs goalie has conceded 4.5 goals above expected. Maybe instead of focusing on Helle we should ask our players to play half way competent D and for our supposed defensive specialist coach to get some defense out of this roster.

I don't expect anything from CH or any pro athlete. He's going to play how he plays and I'm going to root for him.

@Royale With Cheese posted his stats from the last 6 playoff games. To me they aren't great, which I think is fair to say. Of course not all of it falls on him.

I want to clarify for the final time that I am a supporter of CH, think he's a great goaltender and have mucho belief in him. I just don't think he's been as good as he can be - in the playoffs. As it stands right now, I don't know what we'll get from him over the course of 60 mins. I touched on this before game 1 was played. So I'm not saying it because the Jets lost. Nor am I down on the team or CH, looking for a scapegoat or boy to whip.

The best way I can attempt to sum up my thoughts/feelings is: in 2004 when Pedro Martinez took the mound, you knew what you were going to get. When Michael Jordan took to the court in 93, you knew what you were going to get. When Dominik Hasek took the crease in 98, you knew what you were going to get. Yeah these are all HoFers of their respective sport, but that's kind of the point. What separates the best from the rest, to me, is elite performance - consistently. Not that you never have an off night, but it doesn't happen often.

What are we going to get in game 3 from CH? Best case we'll get a first ballot HoF showing and if we don't, we don't.

Why put LB in if we are in a 3-1 series hole?
You then have the guy playing behind a team that’s checked out.
LB deserves the next start, get Helle keyed up and chomping at the bit to get his net back.
A change in goal puts everyone on notice.
Nothing wrong with changing the status quo.

Only part of this I disagree with is LB getting the next start. That should still go to CH, undoubtedly. My take yesterday, in this thread, was LB should start game 4 if CH plays poorly on Friday. Not Jets lose but he stops 61 out of 62. I'm talking bad.

What I was trying to express today was my lack of understanding about LB getting a game being a ridiculous notion. Under any circumstance, aside from CH getting hurt. Which I disagree with. I used going down 3-1 as an extreme hypothetical scenario where starting LB would potentially be acceptable. Because at that point, if it's all gone south, what have you got to lose?

It wasn't really meant to be a debate on if CH is a good playoff goalie. It was questioning why you wouldn't put in a backup who played amazing this year, to give the team a chance to win, if you're not getting what you need from your starter? Isn't the playoffs about winning at all costs?

Like you said, nothing wrong with changing the status quo.

@Atoyot posted LB's playoff stats from last year, not great either. But he came back to Winnipeg and found his game. Was stellar in relief almost all season. There was no drop-off filling in for a Vezina candidate, so to me, that speaks volumes. Which again, is why I felt it was worth considering. I wasn't entertaining thoughts of this nature about Big Save Dave last year, let me tell you.

Anyway, I don't have anything else to contribute towards this discussion. Who knows? I certainly don't. I just hope whoever plays gives us the best chance to win and the dudes calling the shots make the right decisions.

 

[winnipegger]

If hellebuyck posts his regular season average of .920 the jets will win. No ifs ands or buts.

 

[Jets 31]

This whole Helle discourse kinda exposes the entitlement of the fans that they expect the man to perform like a HoF goalie every night. Helle has only conceded 1 goal above expected so far this series, Avs goalie has conceded 4.5 goals above expected. Maybe instead of focusing on Helle we should ask our players to play half way competent D and for our supposed defensive specialist coach to get some defense out of this roster.

I agree we need to play better in front of Helly but a Vezina goalie can't let in 2 of the goals he let in. The one off the faceoff when it looked like he wasn't ready and the one where he misplayed the the puck, just can't let those types of goals in playing in the Stanley cup playoffs. And ya we should fire Bowness today .

 

[surixon]

Admittedly I have no frame of reference for any of the bubble hockey. Sports were of no interest to me during that time. If he was the catalyst for the sweep against Edmonton, that's excellent. It means he's done it before.

Aside from a shutout against Minnesota in 2018, I genuinely don't remember him stealing games during that run (maybe he did.. I was really drunk at the time). I'm not saying he didn't play well either. How I look back on 17/18 was the Jets were a powerhouse and they had (and still have) a good goaltender. Which resulted in our best postseason ever. I don't consider it to have been on the back of CH's play though and I think all of that can be true.

Maybe I'm wrong, this is only my opinion. Truthfully, most of the time I feel like I don't know js in the grand scheme of things, so don't take my word for it.

I don't expect anything from CH or any pro athlete. He's going to play how he plays and I'm going to root for him.

@Royale With Cheese posted his stats from the last 6 playoff games. To me they aren't great, which I think is fair to say. Of course not all of it falls on him.

I want to clarify for the final time that I am a supporter of CH, think he's a great goaltender and have mucho belief in him. I just don't think he's been as good as he can be - in the playoffs. As it stands right now, I don't know what we'll get from him over the course of 60 mins. I touched on this before game 1 was played. So I'm not saying it because the Jets lost. Nor am I down on the team or CH, looking for a scapegoat or boy to whip.

The best way I can attempt to sum up my thoughts/feelings is: in 2004 when Pedro Martinez took the mound, you knew what you were going to get. When Michael Jordan took to the court in 93, you knew what you were going to get. When Dominik Hasek took the crease in 98, you knew what you were going to get. Yeah these are all HoFers of their respective sport, but that's kind of the point. What separates the best from the rest, to me, is elite performance - consistently. Not that you never have an off night, but it doesn't happen often.

What are we going to get in game 3 from CH? Best case we'll get a first ballot HoF showing and if we don't, we don't.

Only part of this I disagree with is LB getting the next start. That should still go to CH, undoubtedly. My take yesterday, in this thread, was LB should start game 4 if CH plays poorly on Friday. Not Jets lose but he stops 61 out of 62. I'm talking bad.

What I was trying to express today was my lack of understanding about LB getting a game being a ridiculous notion. Under any circumstance, aside from CH getting hurt. Which I disagree with. I used going down 3-1 as an extreme hypothetical scenario where starting LB would potentially be acceptable. Because at that point, if it's all gone south, what have you got to lose?

It wasn't really meant to be a debate on if CH is a good playoff goalie. It was questioning why you wouldn't put in a backup who played amazing this year, to give the team a chance to win, if you're not getting what you need from your starter? Isn't the playoffs about winning at all costs?

Like you said, nothing wrong with changing the status quo.

@Atoyot posted LB's playoff stats from last year, not great either. But he came back to Winnipeg and found his game. Was stellar in relief almost all season. There was no drop-off filling in for a Vezina candidate, so to me, that speaks volumes. Which again, is why I felt it was worth considering. I wasn't entertaining thoughts of this nature about Big Save Dave last year, let me tell you.

Anyway, I don't have anything else to contribute towards this discussion. Who knows? I certainly don't. I just hope whoever plays gives us the best chance to win and the dudes calling the shots make the right decisions.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply he was the sole reason for 2018. He was one of many of our players playing at a real high level. I think that year underscores what is needed to go deep. You need the majority of your team firing on all cylinders. So to win this series we need Helle as well as the rest of the team to start playing a whole lot better.

Also I agree that if Helle struggles again I think you have consider LB for game 4.

 

[Daximus]

This whole Helle discourse kinda exposes the entitlement of the fans that they expect the man to perform like a HoF goalie every night. Helle has only conceded 1 goal above expected so far this series, Avs goalie has conceded 4.5 goals above expected. Maybe instead of focusing on Helle we should ask our players to play half way competent D and for our supposed defensive specialist coach to get some defense out of this roster.

He didn't need to be an HoF goalie on the misplay and the off the faceoff goal. He just needed to be smarter. He gaffed both of those goals. Gave up 2 freebies to the other team. One by not being ready, the other by making a bad decision.

We know Helle can be better. We know he will not be phased by those mistakes, We know he will learn from them and apply that to his game.

He had two bad games. We can afford him that this series. He cannot have another.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

We have been thoroughly outplayed in both games and the only reason that we are tied 1-1 is because our goaltending has been better than theirs lol.

Helle has not been great, but giving up on your Vezina winner when you are down 2-1 (if we lose) is a bit crazy. Brossoit is a good backup, that's it. Betting on the high end of Hellebuyck is a much smarter bet.

Go ask the Avs if they would rather see Brossoit or Helle in net.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

When ever I want to feel smart I just read this thread