GDT: Avalanche vs Stars, Round 2, Game 6, 5/17/24 @8:00PM MNT: I don't wanna golf yet!

[BigCKU]

I believe it’s time to start getting back to developing the prospects depth of the franchise. Get back to keeping draft picks to develop that depth.

 

[AvStock]

And who exactly do you hire?

DeBoer

 

[AvStock]

Second time Girard’s been on the ice in OT to end our season against Dallas.

Girard f***ing sucks and isn’t a playoff performer. Killed all of our offense he needs to go to

 

[Perratrooper]

Girard f***ing sucks and isn’t a playoff performer. Killed all of our offense he needs to go to

I’m glad we’ve all taken a night to sleep on the loss and are thinking rationally.

 

[StLAvsFan]

Its been over 6 years by now....Get over it.

That trade helped is win the cup in the end.

Yeah, Matty got a little personal revenge..Who cares?

He hasnt won shit so far. Still 2 rounds to go. I still think the cup goes back east this year.

I am way more embarrased with the way we played this series. Especially our "leaders"....All 3 home-games a loss......

We didnt deserve to win this series. As much as it hurts to say.

And in last year's playoffs, the Avs lost 3 out of 4 home games to the Kraken as well, playing the EXACT same discombobulated, rattled style of hockey every time Seattle laid the body on them and clogged up the neutral zone. Remember giving up the first goal 7 games in a row to them? And 5 times out of 6 with Dallas. The Avs looked like the Keystone Cops for long stretches in the Kraken series, just like they did against the Stars in most of this series. Let's face it, if an opponent takes away their ability to run & gun (and play "fun" pond hockey), Bednar & the Avs don't have a frickin' clue what to do; especially their "big stars." Instead of #29 & #96 adjusting, and playing with a physical edge to their game in response (including while DEFENDING); they start pouting instead, and floating around passively for long stretches, on a team that looks to them to be LEADERS. That's not a recipe for success, especially when the Avs sorely lack any secondary scoring punch. That's also why Landeskog is dearly missed, coz at least he isn't afraid to get his nose dirty while leading by example. True leaders do whatever it takes to win, NOT just look to score a random goal here or there, and then think they've done their share. That's not how playoff hockey works.

 

[Perratrooper]

At the end of the day MacK and Mikko didn’t look like themselves until this game and Ottenger had almost every answer. Dallas was undoubtedly the better team for the entire series and deserved to win the round. It’s unfortunate that we came out with two terrible effort in games 3&4, but realistically we we weren’t much better in games 1&2.

There’s a lot of questions to be asked headed into the off-season, but I’m hopeful the team takes this opportunity to realize what we did this deadline was not going all in.

Thank you all for a fun season, but let’s hope for a much better one next year.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

At the end of the day MacK and Mikko didn’t look like themselves until this game and Ottenger had almost every answer. Dallas was undoubtedly the better team for the entire series and deserved to win the round. It’s unfortunate that we came out with two terrible effort in games 3&4, but realistically we we weren’t much better in games 1&2.

There’s a lot of questions to be asked headed into the off-season, but I’m hopeful the team takes this opportunity to realize what we did this deadline was not going all in.

Thank you all for a fun season, but let’s hope for a much better one next year.

Totally agree. I think I’d be mad if the Avs had consistently outplayed the Stars except for a handful of mistakes, but the Avs too often looked disinterested or as if they just played 5 games before the one they were currently in. The team is going to need to revamp a lot of things if they are going to remain a cup contender

 

[22FUTON9]

Honestly after the overturned goal (which should have counted) it just felt like it was a matter of when not if, until Dallas scored. I think Bednar’s a great coach, one of the best but he just doesn’t know how to adjust/play against Deboer, which is gonna suck because he’s probably gonna be coaching in the central for a long time.

In terms of roster construction, I really don’t know what to think. I honestly still think we had an incredible roster, but when Mack and Rantanen aren’t even PPG players during the second round and val just decides to f*** you over, I really don’t know what much else you can do. Just disappointed in Mack and Rants. Thought they’d win us atleast one game. Really proud of Georgiev, thought he redeemed himself big time.

Mack really needs to work on his faceoff. It was kind of funny how bad he was at it for a while, but when he keeps losing them cleanly as he does, enough is enough. I think he lost like 6 in a row to Duchene at one point, and I’m pretty sure the overturned goal was a direct result of that (don’t remember the series clincher, but if I had to guess, he lost that one as well) He’s also probably one of the worst star players at break up plays/causing turn overs, which is so strange considering his quickness and strength.

Not sure what’s up with Rantanen. Looked terrible all season long. Not on the trade his ass train just yet, but I’m starting to get closer and closer.

Mack and Mikko probably have the worst attitude among superstars when things aren’t going their way, since Malkin and maybe Kuch. Like Malkin, they occasionally dominate games when they’re pissed, but more often than not, they start sulking and start making dumb decisions. Really hope they get their shit straight, or else we’re not going anywhere, no matter who we bring in.
In terms of roster construction, we really need to get an answer from Landy. I wanted us to draft him back in 2011 and love him as a captain but unless they’re 100% sure that he’s able to play, I really want him to just call it a career and maybe go into a player development kind of role.

Re-sign Drouin. Loved Mittelstatd as well. One thing I will say is we probably need better shooters. I love Lehky but his shot is just not good enough.

Done with JJ and Walker. JJ sounds like he wants to still play but hope it’s not with us.

Regarding this year’s playoffs, I really don’t care who wins, as long as Dallas just crushes whoever comes out from the Pacific. After that I couldn’t care less. Maybe not NY.

 

[landstuhltaylor]

I thought JJ had a solid game aside from that absolutely brain dead play on the goal. Honestly I think it might be best to keep him at league minimum as the 6/7 D with the cap crunch we are faced with.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I really hope Beds can learn from the way Dallas played us. They played smart and cohesive, and this seemed to help them maintain good energy levels. The Avs system sometimes seems too overcomplicated just for the sake of it. The constant switches, non-committed coverage plans and “high energy” style also means you miss a lot of assignments and you drain your batteries quicker.

 

[Balthazar]

I really hope Beds can learn from the way Dallas played us.

Stars played exactly like Vegas played us in 2021. Same coach with the same game plan against the Avs.

Same results, too. Deboer knows how to play the Avs so they become completely unable to create offense. And that’s our bread and butter.

Bednar learned nothing. He had no answer back then and still had no answer this year.

 

[tucker3434]

I don't think there's an inherent issue with this team (beyond Nichushkin). That was always gong to be a tight series and come down to who converts on their chances at a higher rate. Dallas did better than we did there. Georgiev wasn't even the problem. Gotta score more than 1 goal.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Stars played exactly like Vegas played us in 2021. Same coach with the same game plan against the Avs.

Same results, too. Deboer knows how to play the Avs so they become completely unable to create offense. And that’s our bread and butter.

Bednar learned nothing. He had no answer back then and still had no answer this year.

I’m just being hopeful. I do think that the team would do really well with a blend of their current style and the DeBoer style. I just don’t think the roster as constructed can execute the Bednar-plan either due to effort or hockey IQ

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I don't think there's an inherent issue with this team (beyond Nichushkin). That was always gong to be a tight series and come down to who converts on their chances at a higher rate. Dallas did better than we did there. Georgiev wasn't even the problem. Gotta score more than 1 goal.

The problem is that the teams 3 best players weren’t difference makers often enough. I don’t really have a problem with Makar, he was still creating chances and you didn’t really see him being a grump out there. MacK and Rants on the other hand…wooof, Rantanen looked like he had a stride count limiter set to three, and MacK just pouted the whole time

 

[dahrougem2]

Man, people give DeBoer WAY too much credit for being some sort of Bednar kryptonite.

Swap rosters and tell me what happens. Colorado got beat by a deeper roster with a goaltender who rediscovered his elite play these playoffs.

Jared Bednar's undoing was his own fault for playing MacKinnon and Rantanen WAY too much during the regular season. It was never more evident that MacKinnon was out of gas than these playoffs. He never once looked like himself.

They lowered Makar's minutes a bit this season and he looked energized in the playoffs. Outside of games 3/4 where every Avalanche player sucked I thought he was the team's best player.

This isn't a stylistic problem. DeBoer doesn't magically have all the answers just because his deeper roster (all three series, btw) has beaten Bednar's. That usually happens.

This is a problem created by Bednar himself, one that I hope Joe Sakic speaks to him about and demands he fix. This cannot continue. The regular season doesn't mean f*** all. Nathan MacKinnon and (if here) Mikko Rantanen should not play a single game above 20 minutes next season. Cale Makar should not see any game above 23 minutes.

Keep these guys fresh for the playoffs. Sakic has to make that explicitly clear to Bednar.

 

[Hornstar]

Man, people give DeBoer WAY too much credit for being some sort of Bednar kryptonite.

Swap rosters and tell me what happens. Colorado got beat by a deeper roster with a goaltender who rediscovered his elite play these playoffs.

Jared Bednar's undoing was his own fault for playing MacKinnon and Rantanen WAY too much during the regular season. It was never more evident that MacKinnon was out of gas than these playoffs. He never once looked like himself.

They lowered Makar's minutes a bit this season and he looked energized in the playoffs. Outside of games 3/4 where every Avalanche player sucked I thought he was the team's best player.

This isn't a stylistic problem. DeBoer doesn't magically have all the answers just because his deeper roster (all three series, btw) has beaten Bednar's. That usually happens.

This is a problem created by Bednar himself, one that I hope Joe Sakic speaks to him about and demands he fix. This cannot continue. The regular season doesn't mean f*** all. Nathan MacKinnon and (if here) Mikko Rantanen should not play a single game above 20 minutes next season. Cale Makar should not see any game above 23 minutes.

Keep these guys fresh for the playoffs. Sakic has to make that explicitly clear to Bednar.

Great post agree with you. There were alot of times Mack was almost sulking. Perhaps it was mostly fatigue. Crappy ending

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Absolutely f***ing not lol

Sullivan is cooked as a coach.

It seems bleak now, but the glass-half-full guy would say they're getting their captain back, have a chance to infuse the roster with some youth, speed, and skill next season in Behrens, Kovalenko, and potentially Ritchie, they're getting LOC back to help the bottom six tremendously, and Makar can hopefully have a full offseason to heal whatever was nagging him.

Obviously things look a bit bleak right now but the offseason could change things.

You make an interesting point about Makar...... last night, one of the last times he danced/threaded his way through the Dallas defense, he got partially checked on his hip. He played through it but he wasn't as active offensively (IMO) afterwards.

I was tracking the defensive rotation used during the second OT and I saw less of Makar and more of Girard, Manson and Walker than I liked. I don't know what might have accounted for Cale's more extended absence from the ice........ (could have need to replace his skates for all I know..)

But overall, I think Cale got deliberately abused by Marchment last night as an intimidation move. Just like Benn took out Toews in game 4. Deliberately.

Some bristle at that part of the game but its a historic part of hockey and it does tend to separate the men from the boys.

 

[twostroke2023]

Honestly, f*** nuke. I know he’s not the only reason, but from a human sense I get how deflating it must have been to Mack and all those guys. They are just as aware as we are how important his play is to this teams success. ESPECIALLY against a team like Dallas. Do we win if he is in the line up? I’m honestly not sure, but I guarantee there is a game seven with him in the lineup.

Mitts was great. I’m excited to see what happens when he has a fully off season/training camp with the Avs.

the Avs need to redesign their system. This is the second time in a row they got their lunch money stolen by a team that clogged up the middle of the ice. Pond hockey works in the regular season, but teams are figuring out how to shut them down when it matters. It worked the cup year but that was one of the best teams the nhl has seen post lockout. Bednar and the team need to realize it isn’t gonna work playing like that all the time anymore.

I’ve always been on the keep rants side of the bus, but if he’s not injured I’m seriously considering trading him. His level of give a f*** was low all season. I also didn’t like that interaction with Georgie where he supposedly said “I’ll f***ing kill you”. I feel like there are a couple teams who would kill for a big name player who need a shakeup. Get a good young player. Rants is our best opportunity to retool and keep the window open.

In regards to nuke, the best scenario would be him not wanting to take six months of no pay and getting a big contract with the KHL and both parties mutually terminating his current contract. It’s a long shot but it’s what I’m hoping is going to happen so everyone can just turn the page.

 

[Alienblood]

Stars played exactly like Vegas played us in 2021. Same coach with the same game plan against the Avs.

Same results, too. Deboer knows how to play the Avs so they become completely unable to create offense. And that’s our bread and butter.

Bednar learned nothing. He had no answer back then and still had no answer this year.

yeah needs to get bigger and tougher for the playoffs. Crouse would be a nice start and a healthy Landy is built for playoffs. Another blueliner besides Manson as well

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

And in last year's playoffs, the Avs lost 3 out of 4 home games to the Kraken as well, playing the EXACT same discombobulated, rattled style of hockey every time Seattle laid the body on them and clogged up the neutral zone. Remember giving up the first goal 7 games in a row to them? And 5 times out of 6 with Dallas. The Avs looked like the Keystone Cops for long stretches in the Kraken series, just like they did against the Stars in most of this series. Let's face it, if an opponent takes away their ability to run & gun (and play "fun" pond hockey), Bednar & the Avs don't have a frickin' clue what to do; especially their "big stars." Instead of #29 & #96 adjusting, and playing with a physical edge to their game in response (including while DEFENDING); they start pouting instead, and floating around passively for long stretches, on a team that looks to them to be LEADERS. That's not a recipe for success, especially when the Avs sorely lack any secondary scoring punch. That's also why Landeskog is dearly missed, coz at least he isn't afraid to get his nose dirty while leading by example. True leaders do whatever it takes to win, NOT just look to score a random goal here or there, and then think they've done their share. That's not how playoff hockey works.

MacK floated A LOT during this series..... seemingly waiting for others to get him the puck. Losing control of the puck frequently or being stripped of it (True, he always had at least 2 guys covering him.)

Rants was a complete stumble bum and displayed cement hands.

I expected more of them both but as you have described, their failure to be difference makers was clearly demonstrated in past series and during the season against team that play a structured, deep, tight checking system.

It finally caught up with them and bit them in ass.

 

[Avs_19]

Oettinger leads the NHL with a 6.66 GSAA in the playoffs. Just last night alone he had the save on Drouin from his belly, the other one by Drouin point blank that was tipped by Johnston and then hit him, two on Lehkonen wide open in the slot, one by Lehkonen in the first that he flubbed with the open net, and the one that just barely went wide by Parise. Those are just off the top of my head that stand out.

Avs had stretches throughout the series where they were bad and couldn't create much. As did Dallas. They also had plenty of scoring chances. The Bednar "can't and won't adjust" and "can't play against Deboer" is a cop out and BS. The Avs made it to game six double OT against a better and deeper team with the coach making zero adjustments and not knowing what he's doing? Just standing there in his stylish suits telling them to bang their head against a wall?

 

[S E P H]

Two Main Things.
1. Dallas 100% deserved that game, Avs barely got it to OT when the Stars took over the second half of that game and truly, we never once looked threatened to score. Brutal stuff because the effort was there, but none of the skill was and I don't think it was because of Parise being high or whatever else, not even Lehkonen looked passable.

2. I told you lot 2-3 years ago that Avs can't beat these grindy teams and here is another example of it. Losing to another DeBoer team isn't necessarily because of DeBoer and more of an Avs and Bednar kryptonite. I 100% have not changed my mind about this even with our 2022 Cup.

There is some other stuff on my mind as well.
- Bednar won't change, but he needs to stop with this accurate postgame stuff of what went wrong and conduct more in-game adjustments. I do think they perform adjustments in the game, but the effect of them is barebones at maximum. It seems that he tends to fix problems between games and that's just too late at times as this series proves. No excuse for losing 3 games in a row and looking absolutely terrible on top of that in those three games. That's a team problem for sure, but a bigger coaching problem underneath the iceberg IMHO.

- What happened to Walker? Like I don't blame McFarland whatsoever, they went after the best defenceman on the market as I do not want to play these hindsight games since Tanev was loads better. But damn, he was such a dud and it sucks because his time here started off so well and eventually got worse as it went on. Hopefully, we move on because this season shows you simply cannot have an entire back 6 of solid puck movers that can't handle a forecheque. It makes sense why Manson looked so good and why others like him and Jones struggled (I liked Jones though, he was a good warrior and had a successful season; solid #7-8).

- We need to get younger, I appreciate all the amazing things that Parise, Cogliango, JMFJ, and Duhaime did, but all of them were slower than anyone else and suffered to keep up with the pace, especially Cogs.

- I would bring Kiviranta and Trenin back, but I suspect that Duhaime will get a spot as the Avs are turning more into the "grinder" teams as Bednar has wanted.

- If Avs still want to recoup some of the talent through the draft, we might want to trade down from our 1st this year for a 2nd this year and a 2nd next year. We do not have our first three picks in 2025, which is looking to be a bloody good draft class.

- Seeing our team in CapFriendly, hard to see how this team will have the depth next year as well. I think we're going to find ourselves in a similar spot where we will be in the top 3 of the division, make a splash to fill the depth at the TDL, and get beat by a deeper team in the long run. Nuke, Landeskog, and LOC all potentially coming back helps, but hard to see if we'll have the cap space for all of them along with trying to sign other blokes in the UFA market to fix the depth issues.

- And there are major "ifs" on those three players, where Avs might want to cut ties with Nuke and Landeskog might never play again. That's a lot of talent potentially lost, especially considering that another team will absolutely give Valeri another chance, no questions asked, which could be a direct rival. Hard to see how Avs could replace Nuke or Landeskog in the free-agent market, which tends to be a shitshow both in terms of price and underwhelming results.

- Avs might look to trade Nuke if a team is willing to bite and if they want to give him a fresh start. I doubt he would bring back a top 6 player, but perhaps a 1st rounder or 2nd rounder?

- Rantanen, holy smokes man, I totally buy the comments by Ismo's dad. This guy needs a reality cheque, arguing with teammates, calling out people in the media, and looking like rubbish for 90% of the season. I agree with the people that he "plays" lazy, but this was the worst season of him I've seen because there were other years where he posted fewer points, but was more actively involved in the play compared to this year. I fully understand that he will ALWAYS force the play on the PP which will lead him to be a turnover machine as he has always been, but he was lost this season. This could be a great learning lesson to never take anything for granted because he was a shell of himself this year and somebody I have no problem moving on from him in the future if he continues to perform like this and then demands 14 million. Avs could get quite the haul that could fix a lot of the depth issues and holes we currently have.

- Here's how I see the team so far...
Drouin - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Nuke - Mittelstadt - Lehkonen
Kovalenko - Colton - O'Connor
Wood - Trenin - Kiviranta

Toews - Makar
Girard - Manson
XXXXX - Malinski

- Nuke is an obvious question mark on what happens in the future.
- I think it is safe to say that Colton needs to be moved to wing, not enough IQ for centre.
- I want to get a higher calibre two-way centre for that 3rd line, one that can kill PKs.
- I would want better PKers in that bottom 6, get a young version of Cogliano.
- I want a left-handed Manson for that bottom pair role, does not need to be amazing, but someone with IQ that can handle a heavy forecheque. JMFJ can, but doesn't have the IQ required

Now I'm just ready to resolve the Val situation, get our Captain back, and find out just how big of an impact his presence will have on this group next year.

Yeah, this Landeskog needs to be dealt with as well, either try to play the damn game or retire. Enough of this "I will skate around for 30 minutes for the next 7 years nonsense" that we've been getting in the IR thread.

Also, did you change your mind about Manson by any means? Not that I want to get in an argument, but I thought he had a brilliant postseason overall. I think I wanted his contract gone in the offseason, but I don't think you can trade him after this run IMHO. Him and Girard.

 

[UncleRisto]

I love how every year when we get eliminated I go "Oh, well the rest of the playoffs can eat dicks."

Sports!

 

[Perratrooper]

I’m glad we’ve all taken a night to sleep on the loss and are thinking rationally.

As I go start a fire sale on the main board. Some things never change

 

[AvStock]

How many times has Bednar lost in the yoffs to DeBoer? Bednar is DeBoers BITCH through and through