GDT: Austria vs. Great Britain

[ozo]

I stick with my prediction that the competition will be expanded to 24 teams just to make sure that the rich countries are always there. Italy, GB, France, Austria etc.

I think I have missed your post where you lay this prediction out, but without thinking too much, I have to laugh it off as unrealistic. Not only #24 team in the world will pretty much be full amateur side, but the big countries really bring no extra attention to the tournament. Who really is excited as GB playing in elite tournament except couple of hardcore fans and international hockey enthusiasts on this board? I challenge you to open up bbc.com/sports and try to find article about GB's escapades in this tournament. Hockey is too niche of a sport to think about it too much on global scale.

Wow. That was. Wow. I'm still in shock.

I think all of my criticisms were entirely valid. That first PK was a disaster. That second PK was a 5v3. Heinrich was also responsible for the third goal where one of the British players somehow created a penalty shot out of a 1v2. And Raffl for 5 games and 2 periods was just coasting around like he didn't really want it, late to every puck, giving every puck he did get away immediately.

And I asked if Bader was going to double down and he did and the players rewarded him for it because something lit a fire under their asses.

Peter Schneider was the best player of the tournament. Wow. I've been following him since he was a mediocre mid-6 winger in the NCAA. Through his years in the ECHL. He won the race to every loose puck, he was the machine that drove the team. Gorgeous pass on the PP to Wukovits an what a shot.

Second goal, beautiful reset and pass by Marco Kasper and on to Haudum who drew everyone to him with a zone entry like only he can, and then the pass to Dominique Heinrich, who paid for his mistakes with a goal.

Third goal. Vintage Thomas Raffl. That's the Raffl we knew from like, 2014, 2015. Have not seen that guy in a very very long time. That forecheck. Honestly, probably a penalty of some sort. But that's the Raffl we knew. He blew people up off the puck, and once he got on the puck he was impossible to take the puck from, and he had a laser shot. And he just didn't seem to want it as much recently but that last period he wanted it bad. And great follow-up by Nissner, he was fantastic as well.

Fourth goal. Just great effort by Schneider to even get to the puck and get that first shot off and then what a rebound by Raffl with the shot that hearkens to the days when he was a 26 goal scorer in the EBEL. The newspaper referred to Paul Huber as the next Raffl in Salzburg. And I really hope they're right. But that period showed that, when Raffl is motivated, there's still a difference in what they're capable of.

And then the last goal, great effort by Nissner and Schneider. The Salzburg leaders, Nissner, Schneider, Wukovits, they really drove the team this year along with Lukas Haudum. They're the future of this team.

This is not the best we can do. We've got a lot of young talent waiting in the wings. Beware!

In short - congrats! No way Austria deserved to go down when we evaluate the tournament as a whole. you have more talent in reserves than GB too, so imo there can be no real complaints about the today's outcome.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Yeah, Latvia is de facto "richer" country, as in has a bigger hockey market than GB, Italy or France.

I saw you complaining about scheduling in a few other threads and that's the best indication this tournament isn't getting any bigger any time soon. The schedule is the way it is because simply put, the longer this tournament lasts, the more money IIHF losses. It's basically on life support even as a 16-team competition.

 

[filip85]

Yeah, Latvia is de facto "richer" country, as in has a bigger hockey market than GB, Italy or France.

I saw you complaining about scheduling in a few other threads and that's the best indication this tournament isn't getting any bigger any time soon. The schedule is the way it is because simply put, the longer this tournament lasts, the more money IIHF losses. It's basically on life support even as a 16-team competition.

This is first time I have ever read/heard that IIHF is losing money with Elite division ?!

I challenge you to open up bbc.com/sports and try to find article about GB's escapades in this tournament.

Winter Sports

Latest news, videos & results - BBC Sport

www.bbc.com

Back in 2010. before IIHF YT streams I listened GBR-CRO game from Ljubljana on BBC radio

 

[SoundAndFury]

This is first time I have ever read/heard that IIHF is losing money with Elite division ?!

That's not what I said. The tournament as a whole still makes money, no doubt, but teams which games you can't sell and stretch the tournament out take the bite out of what would otherwise be the profit.

 

[Urbanskog]

This is first time I have ever read/heard that IIHF is losing money with Elite division ?!

It doesn't. The elite division along with the WJC are the IIHF's moneymakers and also the tournaments which allow financially less viable competitions to be held.

 

[ozo]

Winter Sports

Latest news, videos & results - BBC Sport

www.bbc.com

Back in 2010. before IIHF YT streams I listened GBR-CRO game from Ljubljana on BBC radio

You are just strengthening my point. There is no bbc.com/hockey at all, but in country with 60+ million people there always will be some audience and that is what we are seeing every year. Group of loyal fans following their team everywhere, but your average Brit would not be able to name a single GB hockey player if we would put gun to their head. Or to bring it back to the original idea I responded to - GB in elite WC brings virtually no extra money/exposure to organizers.

 

[kabidjan18]

I can see why a longer tournament wouldn't necessarily be more profitable. You pay more for logistics but advertisers aren't necessarily willing to pay more for advertisements if many of these games will be between smaller hockey markets with smaller fanbases.

 

[Dofs]

Hopefully we'll see GB back some time in the future. It will be tough though.

I stick with my prediction that the competition will be expanded to 24 teams just to make sure that the rich countries are always there. Italy, GB, France, Austria etc.

I am actually thinking there would be 18 teams once Belarus and Russia comes back.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I can see why a longer tournament wouldn't necessarily be more profitable. You pay more for logistics but advertisers aren't necessarily willing to pay more for advertisements if many of these games will be between smaller hockey markets with smaller fanbases.

Yeah, same with TV rights. Average Finn might be willing to binge-watch a 6-0 blowout against Italy once per tournament, if half of the group stage games were like that it would just be ignored altogether.

 

[MrRuin]

Wow. That was. Wow. I'm still in shock.

I think all of my criticisms were entirely valid. That first PK was a disaster. That second PK was a 5v3. Heinrich was also responsible for the third goal where one of the British players somehow created a penalty shot out of a 1v2. And Raffl for 5 games and 2 periods was just coasting around like he didn't really want it, late to every puck, giving every puck he did get away immediately.

And I asked if Bader was going to double down and he did and the players rewarded him for it because something lit a fire under their asses.

Peter Schneider was the best player of the tournament. Wow. I've been following him since he was a mediocre mid-6 winger in the NCAA. Through his years in the ECHL. He won the race to every loose puck, he was the machine that drove the team. Gorgeous pass on the PP to Wukovits an what a shot.

Second goal, beautiful reset and pass by Marco Kasper and on to Haudum who drew everyone to him with a zone entry like only he can, and then the pass to Dominique Heinrich, who paid for his mistakes with a goal.

Third goal. Vintage Thomas Raffl. That's the Raffl we knew from like, 2014, 2015. Have not seen that guy in a very very long time. That forecheck. Honestly, probably a penalty of some sort. But that's the Raffl we knew. He blew people up off the puck, and once he got on the puck he was impossible to take the puck from, and he had a laser shot. And he just didn't seem to want it as much recently but that last period he wanted it bad. And great follow-up by Nissner, he was fantastic as well.

Fourth goal. Just great effort by Schneider to even get to the puck and get that first shot off and then what a rebound by Raffl with the shot that hearkens to the days when he was a 26 goal scorer in the EBEL. The newspaper referred to Paul Huber as the next Raffl in Salzburg. And I really hope they're right. But that period showed that, when Raffl is motivated, there's still a difference in what they're capable of.

And then the last goal, great effort by Nissner and Schneider. The Salzburg leaders, Nissner, Schneider, Wukovits, they really drove the team this year along with Lukas Haudum. They're the future of this team.

This is not the best we can do. We've got a lot of young talent waiting in the wings. Beware!

A whole book about Austrian difference makers yet not one mention of arguably the most important, namely Bernhard Starkbaum? We are not talking about a comeback win here if he wasn’t the only Austrian tonight showing up with the opening faceoff. He made some sensational stops to keep the game alive.

 

[kabidjan18]

A whole book about Austrian difference makers yet not one mention of arguably the most important, namely Bernhard Starkbaum? We are not talking about a comeback win here if he wasn’t the only Austrian tonight showing up with the opening faceoff. He made some sensational stops to keep the game alive.

True haha. I am notorious for not giving goaltenders their due, but he was great today, a lot of penalty shot type saves.

Also, unfortunate scorekeeper's error. Listed Dominic Hackl as being on the ice for GB's third goal...obviously the skater that was actually on the ice and directly responsible for the goal was Dominique Heinrich, but IIHF scorekeeping is usually about as reliable.

 

[kabidjan18]

Delete

 

[JimXVX]

You are just strengthening my point. There is no bbc.com/hockey at all, but in country with 60+ million people there always will be some audience and that is what we are seeing every year. Group of loyal fans following their team everywhere, but your average Brit would not be able to name a single GB hockey player if we would put gun to their head. Or to bring it back to the original idea I responded to - GB in elite WC brings virtually no extra money/exposure to organizers.

I think it can be hard for folks in countries where hockey enjoys a reasonably high profile to comprehend just how little the average sports fan here in the UK knows or cares about our sport. For a start, for 99.999999% of the population, over here 'hockey' is the thing you play on astroturf with a ball; no ice involved! Never mind asking them to identify a member of our current national team, even Brits who consider themselves big sports nerds wouldn't have heard of Sid/Ovi/McDavid; even the Great One would be a stretch. Yes we have a pro league here, but it's dominated by imports & the British players are just there to fill out the rosters with few exceptions. By far & away our best player (Kirk) is a fringe AHLer at best; our supposedly decent goalie looks like a beer leaguer if you compare his movement to other guys in this tournament from leagues like SHL/NLA, let alone the NHL. It's a miracle we lasted 3 years in the elite division & hopefully the gap until we return will be less than a quarter of a century like last time, but if you look where our U18 & U20 teams are then the future doesn't look too bright.

 

[kabidjan18]

I think it can be hard for folks in countries where hockey enjoys a reasonably high profile to comprehend just how little the average sports fan here in the UK knows or cares about our sport. For a start, for 99.999999% of the population, over here 'hockey' is the thing you play on astroturf with a ball; no ice involved! Never mind asking them to identify a member of our current national team, even Brits who consider themselves big sports nerds wouldn't have heard of Sid/Ovi/McDavid; even the Great One would be a stretch. Yes we have a pro league here, but it's dominated by imports & the British players are just there to fill out the rosters with few exceptions. By far & away our best player (Kirk) is a fringe AHLer at best; our supposedly decent goalie looks like a beer leaguer if you compare his movement to other guys in this tournament from leagues like SHL/NLA, let alone the NHL. It's a miracle we lasted 3 years in the elite division & hopefully the gap until we return will be less than a quarter of a century like last time, but if you look where our U18 & U20 teams are then the future doesn't look too bright.

GB does have 11k registered players though, which is a lot more than a lot of these other countries that have smaller populations to begin with, and as a result smaller player-bases (Austria - 7.6k, Norway - 10.2k, Latvia - 7.4k). There are also more rinks in GB with 68 (Austria - 42, Latvia - 19, Norway - 49). So while it is an unpopular sport to be sure, I feel like even working with what you have, you all should be able to keep up with the pack and even maybe pull ahead.

 

[ChaiTiefling]

GB does have 11k registered players though, which is a lot more than a lot of these other countries that have smaller populations to begin with, and as a result smaller player-bases (Austria - 7.6k, Norway - 10.2k, Latvia - 7.4k). There are also more rinks in GB with 68 (Austria - 42, Latvia - 19, Norway - 49). So while it is an unpopular sport to be sure, I feel like even working with what you have, you all should be able to keep up with the pack and even maybe pull ahead.

We have a LOT of beer league players which I suspect make up the vast majority of those numbers. Quantity's not the problem, it's quality and so therefore depth.

 

[Munakandas]

GB does have 11k registered players though, which is a lot more than a lot of these other countries that have smaller populations to begin with, and as a result smaller player-bases (Austria - 7.6k, Norway - 10.2k, Latvia - 7.4k). There are also more rinks in GB with 68 (Austria - 42, Latvia - 19, Norway - 49). So while it is an unpopular sport to be sure, I feel like even working with what you have, you all should be able to keep up with the pack and even maybe pull ahead.

1) Similarly to what has been previously mentioned. It is generally thought that the 11k figure includes pretty much everyone who plays hockey in GB. Mainly for insurance reasons, even guys who don't play that much. Unlike some European countries.

2) GB coaching isn't great.
2.1) A lot of European players due to language/ cultural/ geographical reasons have access to better coaching and opportunities in nearby countries at a young age. Admittedly no GB players that aren't in NA already really scream out that they deserve a chance in say Sweden or Switzerland. But it's definitely more difficult for Brits. Liam Kirk was linked only in rumour to SC Bern. SC Bern essentially said signing a Brit would be embarrassing. It would be interesting to know how much better GB could be if players had easy access to European countries with good coaching and hockey.

2.2) GB players have started to get some changes abroad. Mostly in lesser leagues partly to Covid and possibly partly to increased visibility playing in the world champs. Hopefully this can continue. Definitely can't hurt GB's development if it does.