Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine - Round VI (MOD WARNING: BEHAVE!)

[vaiski]

Laine hasn't been at his best in this tournament. Playing the wrong wing might have something to do with it. Jokinen seems to always enter the zone at the right side anyway, so I don't get why him and Jalonen choose to keep the wingers on the sides they are at. Playing offwings seemed to work for Kane and Panarin.

Laine and co. could have converted on even more chances and Laine has made some bad plays at times. Taking all that into account makes his production very impressive.

If I'm Lamoriello I take Matthews at #1. Laine has a reasonable chance at becoming the better player of the two, but everything Matthews has showed makes too much sense for the Leafs.

 

[Beukeboom]

A little disappointed in Matthews so far. I thought this was the place where he would put the hammer down and show that he's the best player in this draft but Laine is outplaying him so far in a second tournament in a row where they both have played. Well the tournament is still young though. Maybe i have too big expectations of Matthews because of the hype.

Hard to stay away from this thread..

Because is he thou? When they faced eachother Matthews was better. Matthews has been pretty good in all his games. Obviously having Schroeder and Vatrano and being second PP might give you a few points less than having Barkov and first PP time.

To be honest I don't put too much empahazis in who can take easy points against Hungary, France and Belarus since that is not what they will face in NHL anyway. As long as they look dominant on the ice which Matthews has done in 3 zones I am content.

 

[JA]

Well that links dead, copyright infringement.

Apparently, the IIHF doesn't allow videos over a minute long from this tournament. The one below works.

Didn't see Matthews' turnover but the issue with Laine's is that it was a careless play. He tried to deke through three US players at the offensive blueline, taking the risk of an odd man rush for the opposition in case his he couldn't pull it off (which he didn't). Totally unnecessary.

Matthews had it alone on the blueline in PP. He passed it straight to a Finn and caused a 2 on 1 for finland on PK. It didn't end up a goal but against Canada it did. Young players make mistakes, they learn from those.

This was Matthews' turnover against Canada. It led to Brad Marchand's shorthanded goal for Team Canada.

 

[Mahonkinen]

For years?

Well please do correct me if im wrong.

 

[ps241]

Odd.

Edit: Apparently, the IIHF doesn't allow videos over a minute long from this tournament.

No I think its that Big Brother in Toronto was watching and is eliminating any evidence of Matthews errors. slowly tightens the chin strap on his tinfoil hat!

 

[BusQuets]

Hard to stay away from this thread..

Because is he thou? When they faced eachother Matthews was better. Matthews has been pretty good in all his games. Obviously having Schroeder and Vatrano and being second PP might give you a few points less than having Barkov and first PP time.

To be honest I don't put too much empahazis in who can take easy points against Hungary, France and Belarus since that is not what they will face in NHL anyway. As long as they look dominant on the ice which Matthews has done in 3 zones I am content.

Those teams are very comparable to the teams Matthews have played against in Swiss league, maybe even better. So the games in Swiss leagues doesn't matter because he won't play against them in the NHL? Not very sound logic imo.

 

[IamherefortheFinn]

I find it funny that some NA posters downplay Laine's production in the worlds because he has played against weak opposition. Don't the NA prospects traditionally play against juniors and rack huge amount of points? But now that an European prospect has almost 2ppg it's all of the sudden nothing special since the opposition is weak.

And then there is the argument that Laine is producing so well mainly because he plays in a very good team. Well he has been involved in almost half of the goals in that great team and has most points so doesn't that mean that he himself is a great player too?

And there are a lot of really good players in this tournament in other teams too. For example Canada has Marchand, McDavid and Perry to name few. They also play against weaker opposition but Laine is still outscoring them (Canada has played one game less though).

I think some posters here should give Laine the credit that he deserves from his performance so far in the worlds.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Laine hasn't been at his best in this tournament. Playing the wrong wing might have something to do with it. Jokinen seems to always enter the zone at the right side anyway, so I don't get why him and Jalonen choose to keep the wingers on the sides they are at. Playing offwings seemed to work for Kane and Panarin.

Laine and co. could have converted on even more chances and Laine has made some bad plays at times. Taking all that into account makes his production very impressive.

If I'm Lamoriello I take Matthews at #1. Laine has a reasonable chance at becoming the better player of the two, but everything Matthews has showed makes too much sense for the Leafs.

That's the million dollar question. Do Leafs do the predictable thing or are their scouts one of the 2/10 that had Laine as #1. I am not as sure as some think 1-2 this draft is a foregone conclusion. Mark Hunter only has one draft behind him with the Leafs. If I can see anyone that is impressed with Laine it would be him. I recall him saying in an interview he values players that create scoring chances per average/mins. He took Marner over Hanifin. Laine and Matthews share that similarity this draft. Matthews is safer and he would be a great pick for any team. But Hunter may deem Laine as the higher ceiling player. His only NHL draft he seemed to have focused on skill and scoring. Given the choice of the 2, Laine would seem to be the more gifted scorer. It's an interesting discussion. Either way, I would not be surprised if the Leafs indeed pick Laine or the more popular notion Matthews. I think it's close either way.

 

[NiL8r87]

Apparently, the IIHF doesn't allow videos over a minute long from this tournament. The one below works.


This was Matthews' turnover against Canada. It led to Brad Marchand's shorthanded goal for Team Canada.

In that situation most of the time I wouldn't expect a turnover during an offensive zone entry on a powerplay to turn into a shortie, usually they happen when everyone's feet are set in the offensive zone and the defender intercepts a pass and he's able to gain speed while everyone else is flat footed and a step behind. In this case, I'd blame Hanifin for that goal much moreso than I'd blame Matthews. He looked like a pylon on that goal.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Why are some posters acting like it is some sort of talent downgrade to draft Matthews ahead of Laine? It's not like that at all and I don't know where that narrative is coming from.

 

[IronHalen]

I find it funny that some NA posters downplay Laine's production in the worlds because he has played against weak opposition. Don't the NA prospects traditionally play against juniors and rack huge amount of points? But now that an European prospect has almost 2ppg it's all of the sudden nothing special since the opposition is weak.

And then there is the argument that Laine is producing so well mainly because he plays in a very good team. Well he has been involved in almost half of the goals in that great team and has most points so doesn't that mean that he himself is a great player too?

And there are a lot of really good players in this tournament in other teams too. For example Canada has Marchand, McDavid and Perry to name few. They also play against weaker opposition but Laine is still outscoring them (Canada has played one game less though).

I think some posters here should give Laine the credit that he deserves from his performance so far in the worlds.

I don't think anyone is trying to downplay what he's doing at the Worlds.. It's one tournament that will likely have no effect on the draft. It's just the blind tire pumping of Laine by certain Finnish posters who don't want to accept the fact that Laine is not the best player in this years draft that's rubbing people the wrong way.

 

[Stream*]

That argument just goes against you. Is Laine better than McDavid? 9 points vs. 5 points. All everyone here is doing is talking about points. No real scouting going on here. If that were the case, nearly everyone would acknowledge that Matthews has a lot more in his toolkit than Laine.

While we're at it, who was better head to head? Matthews.

He was talking about the excuse that anyone having NHL wingers would be lighting it up like Laine...but nice deflection?

 

[kelsier]

One thing that couldn't help to think of when watching the game today. Barkov's skating. He was flatout flying there on occasions. Just a couple of years back when Barkov was still in Tappara, his skating looked almost atrocious compared to what it is today and his top end speed was nowhere as close to what Laine has now. After a year or two when Laine has added more gears and improved his overall agility and acceleration, this guy is going to be really hard to stop. Even without top end skating, Laine has managed to be best offensive forward in the team. Speaks volumes about his IQ and skill level. A few more years and we'll see a beast.

 

[NarcoPolo]

6'4", silky hands, amazing vision, best shot we've seen in years, skates like the wind, but the toolbox doesn't compare.

Laine skates like the wind?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Why are some posters acting like it is some sort of talent downgrade to draft Matthews ahead of Laine? It's not like that at all and I don't know where that narrative is coming from.

I have always said both are great prospects. Any team drafting either will be getting a terrific prospect.

The discussion unfortunately has turned into a narrative of knocking one to make the other look better after the lottery results. We had less of this when this discussion was going on before the lottery.

Regardless, I have always said it was close for the 2. There are factors such as age, Points, Big game ability, that I have touched on. But this is more a comparison of the 2 players, and not a knock on one. As this is what we have to look at to separate 2 closely rated prospects.

Again, I do not see 1-2 as a foregone conclusion here as the narrative seems to be Matthews-Laine and nothing this year will change this.

We still have some great drama coming up in this WHC to add another layer of information.

I will say this, The Leafs since Shanahan came on have prided themselves on being one step of other NHL organizations. It would be predictable if they chose Matthews. But they have surprised us before. And if they did deem Laine as the BPA. It would not surprise me either for a team that does not do things in a conventional manner.

 

[William Hylander]

Another thing to point out with Laine, he has had attitude issues in the past.

In 2014 he was sent home from the Ivan Hlinka tournament because he flipped of the coach, and started making off handed remarks about wanting to kill the coach. All because the coach would not put him on the ice in the last minute.

He apologized and since seems to have grown up, he was 15-16 at the time. Consider how he interviews though, he seems to have a idgaf attitude.

 

[BayStreetBully]

I don't think anyone is trying to downplay what he's doing at the Worlds.. It's one tournament that will likely have no effect on the draft. It's just the blind tire pumping of Laine by certain Finnish posters who don't want to accept the fact that Laine is not the best player in this years draft that's rubbing people the wrong way.

That pretty much sums it up. This tournament shows that Laine is a great player. But a few more points doesn't make him better than Matthews. Laine is not the best player, and that's why he's not going #1.

 

[eppe]

One thing that couldn't help to think of when watching the game today. Barkov's skating. He was flatout flying there on occasions. Just a couple of years back when Barkov was still in Tappara, his skating looked almost atrocious compared to what it is today and his top end speed was nowhere as close to what Laine has now. After a year or two when Laine has added more gears and improved his overall agility and acceleration, this guy is going to be really hard to stop. Even without top end skating, Laine has managed to be best offensive forward in the team. Speaks volumes about his IQ and skill level. A few more years and we'll see a beast.

Just hoping he can skate with the puck Sometimes he's having hard time trying to protect and go forward with the puck, while there is no-one to pass to. Yes, he has some good foot playing and can truly play with opposite team members (like we saw today), but quite often his efforts has been defenced. This lead to the Matthew's assist in the FIN-USA game. So this is something to develope, too.

But yeah, can't argue the fact that he is a beast and will be even greater one.

 

[Lempo]

Laine skates like the wind?

Not much predicting which way he's going to go and he keeps dropping stuff to everyone's annoyance while at it.

 

[Lempo]

Another thing to point out with Laine, he has had attitude issues in the past.

In 2014 he was sent home from the Ivan Hlinka tournament because he flipped of the coach, and started making off handed remarks about wanting to kill the coach. All because the coach would not put him on the ice in the last minute.

He apologized and since seems to have grown up, he was 15-16 at the time. Consider how he interviews though, he seems to have a idgaf attitude.

There's yet no reports of him doing that to KJ after the last minutes of the Belarus game though.

 

[NarcoPolo]

This tourney won't change the draft order but it's a bit difficult to understand how some claim Matthews has been clearly better in this tourney.

Because racking up points against ****** teams isn't how anyone evaluates talent.. The debate I don't think is who is "having the better tournament". It's who is the better player.

When you watch Mcdavid you see right away what makes him such a special player. You don't need to analyze his stat line to see that. He also has 4 points..

 

[SanDogBrewin]

A little disappointed in Matthews so far. I thought this was the place where he would put the hammer down and show that he's the best player in this draft but Laine is outplaying him so far in a second tournament in a row where they both have played. Well the tournament is still young though. Maybe i have too big expectations of Matthews because of the hype.

Matthews linemates have something to do with his point production, as in, he doesn't have any. Vatrano, Schroeder, Hinostroza and Maroon just can't keep up.

 

[goblin3]

Because racking up points against ****** teams isn't how anyone evaluates talent..

Like the NLA?

 

[SampoHoitaa]

That's the million dollar question. Do Leafs do the predictable thing or are their scouts one of the 2/10 that had Laine as #1. I am not as sure as some think 1-2 this draft is a foregone conclusion. Mark Hunter only has one draft behind him with the Leafs. If I can see anyone that is impressed with Laine it would be him. I recall him saying in an interview he values players that create scoring chances per average/mins. He took Marner over Hanifin. Laine and Matthews share that similarity this draft. Matthews is safer and he would be a great pick for any team. But Hunter may deem Laine as the higher ceiling player. His only NHL draft he seemed to have focused on skill and scoring. Given the choice of the 2, Laine would seem to be the more gifted scorer. It's an interesting discussion. Either way, I would not be surprised if the Leafs indeed pick Laine or the more popular notion Matthews. I think it's close either way.

I think they have pretty much made up their mind about Matthews. Matthews said on TSN interview that there has been some communication between the leafs organisation and him. He also said that it's "getting to know you" kind of thing. If this is accurate why would they they do it unless they are sure about their pick. I mean there will be interviews anyway + I think he also said he even spoke to Babcock. So that's that.

 

[NarcoPolo]

Like the NLA?

I don't think I need to post past NHL stars production in the Swiss league. Matthews is right in the mix with them