Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine - Round VI (MOD WARNING: BEHAVE!)

[JA]

Matthews frame and style is similar to Stefan, I've watched extensive highlights of each prospect and I'm sceptical of Matthews translation to the NHL. How "big" will be really be at the NHL level?

6'2 194 LBS is not overly big in the NHL compared to some of the real big boy NHLers. Then he has good stick speed and quick feet, how good will that be at NHL speed? Lots of players have good hands, reach, smarts and a good shot like him.
This is just my opinion and I'm not writing him off, I've seen other people question him too and even had a fellow CDCer message me saying he also feels Matthews is like Stefan.

1999 draft- hyped big center in Stefan goes No.1 and before that he went to play in the then IHL to gain experience against men. Two near identical Swedish forwards went No.2 & No.3 after and they were the real stars; Sedins and Stefan was a bust.

2016 draft- hyped big center in Matthews is supposed to go No.1 and before this he decided to play in the NLA to gain experience against men. Two near identical Finnish forwards are supposed to go No.2 & No.3.

See the resemblance?

Laine is the real No.1 IMO.

Stefan was concussed three times in his draft year. It's never a fair comparison to compare someone to Patrik Stefan. He was damaged before he was even drafted. That year, Pavel "hot dogs and wieners is the best food for me" Brendl was the consensus second-overall choice.

Matthews hasn't been concussed three times, and Laine isn't inhaling hot dogs. It's totally different.

Brendl dogged by critics: Knocked for his diet and defence, Czech could still be top draft pick.: [Final Edition]
MacIntyre, Iain. The Vancouver Sun [Vancouver, B.C] 06 May 1999: D3.

...

"There is a European component to his game," Vancouver Canuck general manager Brian Burke said diplomatically, "in that he does not compete on every shift. But you don't score 73 goals by not competing on enough shifts that the rest don't matter. There were a lot of questions posed about another guy named Jaromir Jagr. You don't draft guys like this to backcheck."

...

Of his training and diet, in which a green vegetable is as rare as his backcheck - he recently said, seriously: "Hot dogs and wieners is the best food for me" - Brendl concedes he must do better, but explains his early-season injury hurt his conditioning and he has been trying to adjust to a new culture. On his defensive play, he said: "I've got to play better defensively. I was really bad, but now I'm getting better. I never played defence in Czech Republic; I was there for scoring goals and other guys played defence."

Concussions make Stefan draft wild card; Around the NHL: [Final Edition]
Pap, Elliott. Edmonton Journal [Edmonton, Alta] 10 Apr 1999: D2.

...

The ill wind is the recurring health problems of centre Patrik Stefan, a six-foot-three Czech native on the roster of the International League's Long Beach Ice Dogs. Stefan has been rated at or near the top on many scouting lists but the red flags emerged when the 205-pounder suffered a season-ending concussion on March 31. Earlier this season, he missed three months with another concussion and a spinal contusion.

If the Canucks win the draft lottery, they may have a shot at Stefan. Or if they pick fourth, they still may find him sitting there because other teams have deemed him too risky. Indeed, reports out of Tampa have the Lightning already backing off Stefan after his most recent concussion.

"I think it's too early to say if his injury will change things," Canuck general manager Brian Burke noted. "I assume, at some point, we will be provided with test results after Stefan recovers and I'd say the other teams drafting high will also wait and see what the test results will be."

The question, of course, is whether a bottom-feeding club can risk its high pick on Stefan given his medical history.

The Sedins twins from Sweden and Western League scoring champion Pavel Brendl -- 73 goals and 134 points in 68 games -- may look more attractive now.

"There are players in the NHL who were drafted after having ACL knee reconstructions and concussions," Burke said.

"It's the same as any other medical risk a player has. If you draft a player who has asthma or a bad knee, you have to look at the results, get some professional help and a recommendation on how likely it is it will affect his ability to play. I still think Patrik Stefan will be a top-five pick."

Burke was planning to see Stefan play last weekend but the injury put an end to that. Nonetheless, Burke claims he wasn't disappointed.

"I've seen him on tape six times and, as a staff, we've seen him 20-plus times already," Burke added. "We're not worried about our read on him."

 

[IronHalen]

Matthews frame and style is similar to Stefan, I've watched extensive highlights of each prospect and I'm sceptical of Matthews translation to the NHL. How "big" will be really be at the NHL level?

6'2 194 LBS is not overly big in the NHL compared to some of the real big boy NHLers. Then he has good stick speed and quick feet, how good will that be at NHL speed? Lots of players have good hands, reach, smarts and a good shot like him.

1999 draft- hyped big center in Stefan goes No.1 and before that he went to play in the then IHL to gain experience against men. Two near identical Swedish forwards went No.2 & No.3 after and they were the real stars; Sedins and Stefan was a bust.

2016 draft- hyped big center in Matthews is supposed to go No.1 and before this he decided to play in the NLA to gain experience against men. Two near identical Finnish forwards are supposed to go No.2 & No.3.

See the resemblance?

Laine is the real No.1 IMO.

Wow the Leafs should hire you onto their scouting staff. Your historical comparison based on nothing at all is absolutely brilliant.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Wow the Leafs should hire you onto their scouting staff. Your historical comparison based on nothing at all is absolutely brilliant.

I don't understand this post? I gather you disagree. Do you want to reply to him or just throw out sarcastic insults. You have replied various times in this thread without mentioning any meaningful discussion for either player. Let's see your analysis then, so we can discuss it. I gather you have seen both players play have you not? If so, I want to read your analysis of both players. And maybe a good discussion can follow here.

 

[Gabranth]

Matthews frame and style is similar to Stefan, I've watched extensive highlights of each prospect and I'm sceptical of Matthews translation to the NHL. How "big" will be really be at the NHL level?

6'2 194 LBS is not overly big in the NHL compared to some of the real big boy NHLers. Then he has good stick speed and quick feet, how good will that be at NHL speed? Lots of players have good hands, reach, smarts and a good shot like him.

1999 draft- hyped big center in Stefan goes No.1 and before that he went to play in the then IHL to gain experience against men. Two near identical Swedish forwards went No.2 & No.3 after and they were the real stars; Sedins and Stefan was a bust.

2016 draft- hyped big center in Matthews is supposed to go No.1 and before this he decided to play in the NLA to gain experience against men. Two near identical Finnish forwards are supposed to go No.2 & No.3.

See the resemblance?

Laine is the real No.1 IMO.

Now you've done it.

 

[Pyromaniac]

Matthews frame and style is similar to Stefan, I've watched extensive highlights of each prospect and I'm sceptical of Matthews translation to the NHL. How "big" will be really be at the NHL level?

6'2 194 LBS is not overly big in the NHL compared to some of the real big boy NHLers. Then he has good stick speed and quick feet, how good will that be at NHL speed? Lots of players have good hands, reach, smarts and a good shot like him.

1999 draft- hyped big center in Stefan goes No.1 and before that he went to play in the then IHL to gain experience against men. Two near identical Swedish forwards went No.2 & No.3 after and they were the real stars; Sedins and Stefan was a bust.

2016 draft- hyped big center in Matthews is supposed to go No.1 and before this he decided to play in the NLA to gain experience against men. Two near identical Finnish forwards are supposed to go No.2 & No.3.

See the resemblance?

Laine is the real No.1 IMO.

You watched extensive highlights but failed to do any research on Stefan's injuries?

 

[Ippenator]

Even if Laine had a good skating his game lacks the drive Ovechkin has. Ovechkin plays an energy-filled power game while Laine's game is much slower paced. The only similarity to OV is the shot.

If Puljujärvi hit everything that moves his game would be much closer to OV's than Laine's.

Ovechkin lacks the drive and at the same time steadiness in the biggest games. Just by all means you all can praise him for using his talents in the meaningless games. But I as following his career very intensively from his junior times and first I was even admiring his skill. But after his several Richard awards and consistent choking in the big games and in top international tournaments my eyes were really open. He is the biggest waste of talent that I have seen in the NHL. The only one who could challenge Ovechkin with this is in fact his countryman Kovalchuk. Such a bunch of chokers that it is not even funny.

What is also not funny is to hear people comparing Laine to these guys. Sure Laine has some similar skills that both of the chokers, but he has some very important things that the little chokers never had. Laine is way bigger than neither was when they were 18 years old, and he has enormous will for winning and becoming even bigger at the most meaningful moments.

Of course Ovechkin and Kovalchuk are full grown and experienced men, so it is amazingly lame and short sighted that people compare Laine's skills and abilities to the ones that those full grown men have now.

Is it really so difficult for almost everyone to understand that when you compare an 18 year old top prospect, you should compare him to only how the legendary status players were were when they were only 18. I saw both Kovalchuk and Ovechkin play when they were only 18, and even though they were impressive for sure, they were in fact not the same class as offensive players as Laine is right now. Say whatever you like about Laine's weaknesses, because he sure has some of them, but I can also say that there has not been as skilled and big sized talent since Mario Lemieux. This doesn't mean that I claim that Laine can become new Lemieux. Lemieux was unique and his development during his first NHL years was just pure amazing.

But anyway when you compare Laine to some adult top players or even legendary players, you are supposed to compare them only at the same age as Laine is now, if you want to understand what kind of a talent Laine is already now. I am really getting fed up with how so many people here compare super talents like Laine, Matthews or Pulju to legendary players and say that hey are not even close to those legends. But the truth is that there really hasn't been many offensively as talented players as Laine in the past. And there for sure isn't at the moment.

Physically Laine is already such a beast and will develop in that still with huge amounts. Of course anything can happen, especially if nasty injuries happen. But if everything goes well we will most likely see with Laine something that is even useless to be compared to some players before his prime. Most probably it will be new super talents compared to him.

 

[IronHalen]

I don't understand this post? I gather you disagree. Do you want to reply to him or just throw out sarcastic insults. You have replied various times in this thread without mentioning pros and cons for either player. Let's see your analysis then, so we can discuss it. I gather you have seen both players play have you not? If so, I want to read your analysis of both players.

I've already given my opinions on both players. Repeating it over and over again doesn't accomplish anything. Posts like the one he posted which have no basis at all in this thread don't really deserve a quality response (but others have already mentioned why the Stefan comparison is completely inaccurate.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

Matthews frame and style is similar to Stefan, I've watched extensive highlights of each prospect and I'm sceptical of Matthews translation to the NHL. How "big" will be really be at the NHL level?

6'2 194 LBS is not overly big in the NHL compared to some of the real big boy NHLers. Then he has good stick speed and quick feet, how good will that be at NHL speed? Lots of players have good hands, reach, smarts and a good shot like him.

1999 draft- hyped big center in Stefan goes No.1 and before that he went to play in the then IHL to gain experience against men. Two near identical Swedish forwards went No.2 & No.3 after and they were the real stars; Sedins and Stefan was a bust.

2016 draft- hyped big center in Matthews is supposed to go No.1 and before this he decided to play in the NLA to gain experience against men. Two near identical Finnish forwards are supposed to go No.2 & No.3.

See the resemblance?

Laine is the real No.1 IMO.

Im sorry buddy, but that just doesn't make sense. You can't compare these drafts at all, it's like you want to make up similarities just so you could defend Laine being the #1.

The Finns aren't twins and don't have the same connection as Sedins.

Stefan had a lot of injuries to start his career. And i think he's a better prospect than Stefan was anyway.

The big question isn't who goes first Matthews or Laine, it's who goes second. I could so easily see a lot of scouts think Pulju's upside is higher.

 

[stavs*]

What about Matthews' turnover against Canada? He pretty clearly threw the puck to nobody, and Duchene deflected the puck over to Brad Marchand for the 5-1 breakaway goal.

Both were turnovers, but when you look at the context though, they tell a different story. One was caused by a chip pass that was made during an offensive rush, a generally safe play that ended with a bad consequence. The second was a dangle at the blue line against a very good player that can strip pucks with his active stick. A play that has a higher risk, but would look nicer during the game if he actually pulled it off.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I've already given my opinions on both players. Repeating it over and over again doesn't accomplish anything. Posts like the one he posted which have no basis at all in this thread don't really deserve a quality response (but others have already mentioned why the Stefan comparison is completely inaccurate.

BTW I agree with you and others that the Stefan comparison is not a good one. But I wanted to see some meat to the bones to back it up. This is all I am saying, you disagreed with my 49/51 opinion. But that is my opinion, and I atleast made a case on why I see this is a more likely situation than the AINEC narrative today.

 

[Pyromaniac]

I don't understand this post? I gather you disagree. Do you want to reply to him or just throw out sarcastic insults. You have replied various times in this thread without mentioning any meaningful discussion for either player. Let's see your analysis then, so we can discuss it. I gather you have seen both players play have you not? If so, I want to read your analysis of both players. And maybe a good discussion can follow here.

Other than the conclusion everything about that post is terrible. I am not even sure why the way the 1999 draft played out has any bearing on today. Has Matthews got an extensive history of concussions?

Laine is better though. I agree with him about that.

 

[IronHalen]

BTW I agree with you and others that the Stefan comparison is not a good one. But I wanted to see some meat to the bones to back it up. This is all I am saying, you disagreed with my 49/51 opinion. But that is my opinion, and I atleast made a case why I see it as closer than the AINEC narrative today.

There is nothing wrong with having your own opinion. I just happen to disagree with it.

 

[Liminality]

Matthews frame and style is similar to Stefan, I've watched extensive highlights of each prospect and I'm sceptical of Matthews translation to the NHL. How "big" will be really be at the NHL level?

6'2 194 LBS is not overly big in the NHL compared to some of the real big boy NHLers. Then he has good stick speed and quick feet, how good will that be at NHL speed? Lots of players have good hands, reach, smarts and a good shot like him.

1999 draft- hyped big center in Stefan goes No.1 and before that he went to play in the then IHL to gain experience against men. Two near identical Swedish forwards went No.2 & No.3 after and they were the real stars; Sedins and Stefan was a bust.

2016 draft- hyped big center in Matthews is supposed to go No.1 and before this he decided to play in the NLA to gain experience against men. Two near identical Finnish forwards are supposed to go No.2 & No.3.

See the resemblance?

Laine is the real No.1 IMO.

I see what you did there.

 

[JA]

Both were turnovers, but when you look at the context though, they tell a different story. One was caused by a chip pass that was made during an offensive rush, a generally safe play that ended with a bad consequence. The second was a dangle at the blue line against a very good player that can strip pucks with his active stick. A play that has a higher risk, but would look nicer during the game if he actually pulled it off.

He can take it as a learning opportunity.


I've seen this happen.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

I see what you did there.

To be honest the sarcasm detector was broken a long time ago in this thread.

Just have to assume he was being serious

 

[Mess]

This thread has reached its limit

/closed