Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine - Round V (MOD WARNING: BEHAVE!)

[Spade]

Other than the bolded this is an excellent post

To be fair, and I touched on this in the post itself, Laine takes a while to get up to top speed. When he's on it's on, but because he takes so long we rarely see him at that top speed. Matthews on the other hand gets up to speed in about 2 or 3 steps, so it looks like he's faster when really he just has better footwork allowing him to build speed quicker. Thus, I'd say they're pretty equal all things considered in terms of actual ability, but one guy's strength is pretty effective in the NA game while the other might be more effective with more wide space on the bigger ice. For the purposes of evaluating, they're not too far apart, but for the purposes of drafting and playing in the NHL it's a completely different situation.

It's my biggest issue with Laine. Laine's acceleration is a question mark compared to Matthews. If you're taking more than 3 strides in a straight line to hit top speed you're in trouble at the NHL level because defenders will close the gaps on you in an instant. It's a powerful stride and still theoretically good, but in the NHL quick elusive skaters are more effective than straight ahead speedsters because 80% of the game players are turning within a relatively small area rather than skating through the neutral zone in transition.

 

[Jabba11]

Ilya Kovalchuk vs Jason Spezza
Patrick Laine vs Auston Matthews

 

[kujo31]

I dont see Spezza and Matthews as very similar players

 

[NarcoPolo]

As a Jets fan, I'd be thrilled with either of them skill wise. Either player is a win for the Jets and both bring something slightly different to the table. The Leafs and Jets are in a great position to move forward.

That being said, I desperately Want Patrik Laine as our 2nd overall pick and it has absolutely nothing to do with skill or talent.
7 + years of Laine post game interviews might be pure gold. I have my fingers crossed for some hilarious post game comments when he reaches the NHL.

Now if only both fan bases (and some finnish posters) could see that Matthews is a perfect fit for the leafs, likewise Laine to the jets and that both are quite close talent wise. How has this gone on for 5 threads already

 

[dubey]

I dont see Spezza and Matthews as very similar players

Horrible comparisons

 

[stavs*]

To be fair, and I touched on this in the post itself, Laine takes a while to get up to top speed. When he's on it's on, but because he takes so long we rarely see him at that top speed. Matthews on the other hand gets up to speed in about 2 or 3 steps, so it looks like he's faster when really he just has better footwork allowing him to build speed quicker. Thus, I'd say they're pretty equal all things considered in terms of actual ability, but one guy's strength is pretty effective in the NA game while the other might be more effective with more wide space on the bigger ice. For the purposes of evaluating, they're not too far apart, but for the purposes of drafting and playing in the NHL it's a completely different situation.

It's my biggest issue with Laine. Laine's acceleration is a question mark compared to Matthews. If you're taking more than 3 strides in a straight line to hit top speed you're in trouble at the NHL level because defenders will close the gaps on you in an instant. It's a powerful stride and still theoretically good, but in the NHL quick elusive skaters are more effective than straight ahead speedsters because 80% of the game players are turning within a relatively small area rather than skating through the neutral zone in transition.

Matthews has another gear which I don't think most people know about because he doesn't use it that much. He has a special gear that he uses sometimes when he's skating through the neutral zone and/or is evading a defensive player. If he senses there is a quick player closing the gap on him, he really opens up which is when you see his true skating potential. I remember watching him play against Canada, and he tore right through the neutral zone with a Canadian player chasing him and evaded him to then blow around the defender as well and get a scoring opportunity. I'm not sure if he picked up another gear in Zurich, but a lot of us on the Leafs board were surprised at how quick he was against a pretty deep Canadian team

 

[NarcoPolo]

Ilya Kovalchuk vs Jason Spezza
Patrick Laine vs Auston Matthews

Matthews plays nothing like Spezza does or has in the past.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Ilya Kovalchuk vs Jason Spezza
Patrick Laine vs Auston Matthews

A poor skating (at time of draft, and specifically compared to Matthews) poor defensive center is a good comp for Matthews? Just diverging totally styles.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Ilya Kovalchuk vs Jason Spezza
Patrick Laine vs Auston Matthews

Kovy is a much better skater than Laine.

Matthews is a much better skater than Spezza.

Pretty rough comparison then you can get into several different points of their game where you're likely elevating Laine to Kovalchuk a little. Whereas you're downgrading Matthews to Spezza. Especially at this stage in their developments.

 

[Backhandshelf81]

Ilya Kovalchuk vs Jason Spezza
Patrick Laine vs Auston Matthews

That's a poor stylistic comparison, but aside from that, I hope Spezza isn't meant to be presented as a negative comparable here. He's nearly PPG in what has been an 843 game career.

 

[mydnyte]

I see Matthews more like a Messier ...he is really strong and loves the middle of the ice, but can score fom anyplace, and wants to be the main guy
Laine ...lets get even more old school, and say Bossy ...doesnt do as much but puts the puck in the net better than most

High expectations for both ...yea!

 

[Auston Matthews]

Matthews looks so smart out there. He definitely fits the "cerebral centre" tag.

 

[EscapeGoat]

Ilya Kovalchuk vs Jason Spezza
Patrick Laine vs Auston Matthews

Nah, Matthews is like Sakic.

So Sakic vs. a much slower Kovalchuk. Easy choice.

 

[moropanov]

Laine is better than same age Kovalchuk or Ovechkin AINEC

 

[So Truculent]

Matthews and Spezza LOL

Crawford even said Matthews is a shooter first, the Sens tried to get Spezza to shoot more his entire time there lol

terrible comparison and that Matthews is all around a more complete player

 

[dubey]

Laine is better than same age Kovalchuk or Ovechkin AINEC

Kool

His game will be exposed with pro level skaters and smaller ice

 

[Mestaruus]

Tonight is FIN-USA game and I hope Laine and Matthews drop the gloves and fight. Winner of the fight goes to Toronto.

 

[rehf]

Kool

His game will be exposed with pro level skaters and smaller ice

Just like Kovalchuk and Ovechkin?

Both prospects are good.

 

[lomiller1]

So apparently 40 goals and 80+ points with Selke defence is the best player in the league now eh?

Between them Kopitar and Toews have 1 Selke, 1 80 point season (that was still less than ppg) 0 40 goal seasons and 4 30 goal seasons.

You are suggesting Matthews with be MUCH better than either of these two, and yes, to be that much better than these two elite centers he'd pretty much need to be considered the best player in the game.

Kopitar if he scored 10 more goals last season wouldn't be the best player in the league.

At the very least he'd be considered for it, and he scored 10 more goals last year he still wouldn't have scored 40 goals let alone 50 some Leaf fans are suggesting Matthews will be putting up while winning his Selke's.

 

[JA]

Neither of the players' names are spelled correctly in the thread title.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Laine is better than same age Kovalchuk or Ovechkin AINEC

No, hes absolutely not. Qualtiy of skating being a huge differentiator (More so Ovy and Kova being great skaters while laine more average, but slow specically to accelerate).

 

[Sane]

No, hes absolutely not.

Actually if we look at the games played in different national teams with quick look Laine seems best goal scorer after great eight. Yes, better than Mcdavid and Matthews. Sometimes it feels like people here have no idea how good Laine has been for a long time.

 

[Plural]

To be fair, and I touched on this in the post itself, Laine takes a while to get up to top speed. When he's on it's on, but because he takes so long we rarely see him at that top speed. Matthews on the other hand gets up to speed in about 2 or 3 steps, so it looks like he's faster when really he just has better footwork allowing him to build speed quicker. Thus, I'd say they're pretty equal all things considered in terms of actual ability, but one guy's strength is pretty effective in the NA game while the other might be more effective with more wide space on the bigger ice. For the purposes of evaluating, they're not too far apart, but for the purposes of drafting and playing in the NHL it's a completely different situation.

It's my biggest issue with Laine. Laine's acceleration is a question mark compared to Matthews. If you're taking more than 3 strides in a straight line to hit top speed you're in trouble at the NHL level because defenders will close the gaps on you in an instant. It's a powerful stride and still theoretically good, but in the NHL quick elusive skaters are more effective than straight ahead speedsters because 80% of the game players are turning within a relatively small area rather than skating through the neutral zone in transition.

Excellent analysis. I agree to a tee. Laine is fast(ish), but he takes his time to hit that speed. I'd say that this summer he probably will have the biggest improvement on that area. I hope he can work on his acceleration since it's really important in todays NHL.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Actually if we look at the games played in different national teams with quick look Laine seems best goal scorer after great eight. Yes, better than Mcdavid and Matthews. Sometimes it feels like people here have no idea how good Laine has been for a long time.

More to playing hockey than just scoring goals. He didnt specify goalscoring anyway, said they were better players at the same age. Compounding the problem is that Ovechkin was a comparison and it was followed by AINEC. This on the heels of one poster suggesting that Laine is already one of the best offensive players in the world. In tandem it was just too much...

 

[93LEAFS]

Between them Kopitar and Toews have 1 Selke, 1 80 point season (that was still less than ppg) 0 40 goal seasons and 4 30 goal seasons.

You are suggesting Matthews with be MUCH better than either of these two, and yes, to be that much better than these two elite centers he'd pretty much need to be considered the best player in the game.




At the very least he'd be considered for it, and he scored 10 more goals last year he still wouldn't have scored 40 goals let alone 50 some Leaf fans are suggesting Matthews will be putting up while winning his Selke's.

I don't think 50 something Leafs fans are suggesting this, but if he somehow turned into a 40 goal, 50 assist, 90 point guy with Selke level defence we are talking peak Fedorov. Who in the early 90's when old age was starting to hit Gretz, and Lemieux was battling cancer and a bad back was probably the best player in the game for a short period of time.

I'd say Matthews ceiling is probably similar to Tavares offensive ceiling with Toews level defensive game. Whether he gets anywhere close to that is another question. Those appear to be two guys that Matthews has heavily modelled his game after as he works with Daryl Belfry who works with Tavares, and has repeatedly stated he tries to model his all around game after Toews. He has a lot in common with Tavares at the same age, in that he is more known as a scorer with an elite shot than a playmaker (but is still high-end to elite in that regard), and has similar size (is a bit bigger), but is a much stronger skater, although I'd probably give Tavares a slight edge in passing/vision.