Auston Matthews or David Pastrnak: Who has the better chance at winning the Rocket Richard Trophy?

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

I didn't expect you to believe us, however we would know if Matthews has improved that part of his game a lot more than you since you have a bias against them.

...and you don’t have a bias for them? You’re the same guy who posted three average Leaf goals in the “Best first goals” thread

 

[LeafsNation75]

...and you don’t have a bias for them? You’re the same guy who posted three average Leaf goals in the “Best first goals” thread

My point is we actually watch the Leafs and Matthews play and I have seen him improve his neutral zone defense. However if you don't want to believe that I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

My point is we actually watch the Leafs and Matthews play and I have seen him improve his neutral zone defense. However if you don't want to believe that I don't know what else to tell you.

I live in the Leafs viewing range, I watch a fair amount of their games. His defensive play in any zone in poor at best.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I live in the Leafs viewing range, I watch a fair amount of their games. His defensive play in any zone in poor at best.

You have your opinion and actual Leafs fans like myself and @Martin Skoula have our opinion, so I agree with him that Matthews has improved that part his game.

 

[YakDavid]

Pastrnak doesn't play a complete game at all, I don't know what people are talking about. His strengths are his shot and his ability to carry the puck up the ice on his own where he can beat the opposition one-on-one with his speed and skill. It's a bit hit and miss because he has that whole drunken master quality where he's in control when he doesn't quite look like he is, but by no means does this work all the time. Regardless, he's among the very best in the league at these two things.

He'll have some nice dishes that show up on highlight reels but he's by no means a great passer. He tries to force A LOT through. He's in a situation where he's given the freedom to be creative and risky with the defensive net of Bergeron in place. I think the redeeming quality for him is that he definitely tries and hustles when he doesn't have the puck.

If you're comparing that to Matthews, I think Matthews has arguably the best defensive stick in the league, it's just that his effort level is very questionable. I still think Matthews is more effective overall though.

Are you serious? I get you don't want to hurt your stars penalty killing but he has 1:35 on it all year! So the best defensive stick doesn't kill penalties because he is a star?

 

[Martin Skoula]

Matthews is absolutely not elite at neutral zone defense...No idea who you’re watching.

I guess being top-5 in takeaways is just a fluke then?

 

[LeafsNation75]

I guess being top-5 in takeaways is just a fluke then?

He's actually top 3 in that category. I just can't remember if he's 2nd or 3rd, because Marner is also on the top 3 and I know #1 is Mark Stone.

 

[Dekes For Days]

His defensive play in any zone in poor at best.

This is blatantly untrue.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Matthews is absolutely not elite at neutral zone defense...No idea who you’re watching.

Agreed. He’s average at best defensively. Some of the more enthusiastic fans were touting him as a future Selke winner in his first year but he’s nowhere close to that.

 

[ottawa]

This is pretty lopsided considering around a quarter of the "neutral" fans voting for JT are actually Leafs fans lol

Pasta all day here...no bias here as a habs fan, I hate both teams.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Agreed. He’s average at best defensively. Some of the more enthusiastic fans were touting him as a future Selke winner in his first year but he’s nowhere close to that.

So than how else do you explain Matthews being top 3 in takeaways this season?

 

[Golden_Jet]

Takeaway /60 Matthews is 27.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

So than how else do explain Matthews being top 3 in takeaways this season?

My post got deleted about this for some reason even though it was directly related to addressing the takeaway argument, so I'll rephrase it as more "ON TOPIC". Do you believe takeaways is a strong indicator of defensive ability? I listed two guys in my previous post that got deleted who are also top 5 in takeaways, but I doubt most would argue they're elite at defense.

IMO, takeaways as a defensive stat is highly overrated. That's not to say that someone who is good at takeaways isn't also good defensively. But I just don't think it's a good stat in isolation to point to to determine a player's defensive ability.

 

[LeafsNation75]

My post got deleted about this for some reason even though it was directly related to addressing the takeaway argument, so I'll rephrase it as more "ON TOPIC". Do you believe takeaways is a strong indicator of defensive ability? I listed two guys in my previous post that got deleted who are also top 5 in takeaways, but I doubt most would argue they're elite at defense.

IMO, takeaways as a defensive stat is highly overrated. That's not to say that someone who is good at takeaways isn't also good defensively. But I just don't think it's a good stat in isolation to point to to determine a player's defensive ability.

I have to check the stats but I believe takeaways is something Mark Stone lead last season and so far he's #1 in that category this season. Also when his name is mentioned the first thing I hear is he's #1 in takeaways. So Matthews being top 3 in takeaways is obviously a positive that his defensive game has been improving.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I have to check the stats but I believe takeaways is something Mark Stone lead last season and so far he's #1 in that category this season. Also when his name is mentioned the first thing I hear is he's #1 in takeaways. So Matthews being top 3 in takeaways is obviously a positive that his defensive game has been improving.

Or he excels at that one aspect of hockey. I think when you start talking about a player being "good defensively", you have to factor in a bunch of things they do that prevents the other team from getting chances, not just one particular thing. It's like saying a defenseman is great defensively because he's top 5 in blocked shots.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Or he excels at that one aspect of hockey. I think when you start talking about a player being "good defensively", you have to factor in a bunch of things they do that prevents the other team from getting chances, not just one particular thing. It's like saying a defenseman is great defensively because he's top 5 in blocked shots.

I realize that, however Matthews has been doing something right in his game to improve his defensive zone play and the fact he's top 3 in takeaways didn't happen by accident.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I realize that, however Matthews has been doing something right in his game to improve his defensive zone play and the fact he's top 3 in takeaways didn't happen by accident.

He’s actually 4th which is good, but 27th in takeaways per 60 mins