ATD2018 - Trading or No Trading?

[BenchBrawl]

Trading or no trading for ATD2018?

If trading wins, we'll work out the details afterward.

Click to read more...

 

[BenchBrawl]

It seems I can't vote if I created the poll in this new format.Maybe I just haven't seen how.In any case, I vote for "Trading".

 

[rmartin65]

The poll doesnt work for me either.

I hesitantly vote for trading. I think that there does need to be more oversight, though, especially when it comes to trades with rookie GMs.

 

[BenchBrawl]

The poll doesnt work for me either.

I hesitantly vote for trading. I think that there does need to be more oversight, though, especially when it comes to trades with rookie GMs.

I'm not sure what is wrong, I am trying to fix it.

Edit: Well I have no idea what the problem is.I created a poll in the poll section and it worked fine.Are polls supposed to be restricted to the poll section? I Pm'ed a Global Moderator for help.

 

[BenchBrawl]

The poll doesnt work for me either.

I hesitantly vote for trading. I think that there does need to be more oversight, though, especially when it comes to trades with rookie GMs.

You can vote now.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Voted. I think this should pass easily given the early results...

 

[ResilientBeast]

Trading of only picks is my preference

 

[Iceman]

Trading of only picks is my preference

Hmm... I'm not sure about that. I thought the trades like the Messier one from last year was a pretty interesting moment of last year's ATD.

 

[tinyzombies]

I stand by the Messier trade. If we are evaluating based on a whole career, you might have a point, but his peak was unquestionable. I just drafted poorly on the back end and didn't understand how source material on pre-NHL players was evaluation or valued. I will be better this time around. I think the rules should be clarified though. Are we evaluating players based on peak or career? Does a player's playoff performance count more over a player that had better regular season numbers? Is the team being built for the playoffs or is it a regular season team? The draft has a playoff format, so it's confusing, it feels like the players on the team need to be playoff performers, or that they WOULD have been better playoff performers if they had a better cast around them. Etc. These are all controversial debates that rage when comparing players and eras anyway, but maybe the draft should be clear about what you are looking for. One draft could approach the debate from one angle, another draft from the other side of the argument: Career vs. Peak, etc. I mean who do you want? Mike Gartner or Mark Messier?

 

[BenchBrawl]

I think the rules should be clarified though. Are we evaluating players based on peak or career? Does a player's playoff performance count more over a player that had better regular season numbers? Is the team being built for the playoffs or is it a regular season team?

There are no such rules.Everyone has their opinions and value things differently, and the group as a whole is just the collection of those opinions.It can change with time too.

About regular season vs. playoffs, here's how I approach it, and this is just my opinion:

Take the following line:

Tkachuk - Thornton - Selanne

At first glance, it has a bit of everything (OK, it's weak defensively, but that's irrelevant).It seems like a pretty good line.But all of them are questionable as playoff performers, and together it's really ugly.

Now look at:

Tkachuk - Gilmour - Iginla

Now Tkachuk's weak playoff performances are "covered for" or "hidden" behind the other players' greatness, so his physical and goalscoring abilities can shine without his weakness standing out.

Same with:

Blake - Thornton - Geoffrion

or

Elias - Trottier - Selanne

To conclude, there might be a way to have Tkachuk-Thornton-Selanne as a line on your line-up without their playoff weakness hurting you too much.This is if the line as a whole is "covered for" or "hidden" by the other lines.

Example:

Moore - Messier - Kane
Tkachuk - Thornton - Selanne
Marleau - Bergeron - Lemieux

Here you see that even Marleau is questionable, but the first line, along with Bergeron-C.Lemieux, are compensating for them enough so that the team still looks like a winner.

OTOH, it would be much harder to pull if the weak playoff line would be the 1st line.

As a last example, to use my own defensive squad from last year, I had:

Harvey-Weber
Hatcher-Boucher

Weber is a weak playoff performer (though he did decent in international tournaments).But he's squeezed between three strong playoff performers, so his weakness can't be focussed on.

 

[tinyzombies]

Got it.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Yes to trading, and I propose a time limit where people can challenge the validity of a trade, after which it passes.

 

[BenchBrawl]

This is pretty much settled.We have 14 votes in favor of trading vs. 1 against and we have 21 teams as of today.

I'll give it another day or two then start new polls to clarify what kind of trading we want (mainly picks only vs. picks and players, I don't think we need to go over whether we want a limit of trades, this topic wasn't in contention as far as I know, 8 trades max worked fine (and 4 assets max per trade too), but if anyone feels otherwise say it).As for the trade committee, maybe we can discuss that without a poll (I wouldn't know what to put as options).

If anyone have anything to suggest do it here.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Yes to trading, and I propose a time limit where people can challenge the validity of a trade, after which it passes.

I'm not sure I understand how that would work in practice.Can you elaborate?

 

[BenchBrawl]

Trade Committee

In the events of last year, we should try to clarify what we want from the trade committee as much as possible before starting the draft.

1) Do we need a trade committee or we go Wild Wild West?
2) Who will be part of the trade committee?
3) When does a trade gets officially vetoed?
4) How to handle a controversial and polarizing trade?
5) How to handle trades with first-timers?
6) Do we want a time limit on when someone can veto a trade?
7) When is a trade officially confirmed?
8) Do we want trading on the clock?
9) What to do when a trade occurs when no one is on the forum and the clock is upcoming?

 

[ImporterExporter]

Are we trading picks and players?

Or picks only during draft with a week period after the draft to make player trades?

Or no players at all?

Trades capped or unlimited?

Big questions IMO

 

[Dreakmur]

Hard no.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I still say only pick trading should be allowed the minute you add players into it the business of deciding evenness becomes complicated and subjective

 

[rmartin65]

I still say only pick trading should be allowed the minute you add players into it the business of deciding evenness becomes complicated and subjective

I definitely like the pick-only trading. At least until after the draft.

 

[BenchBrawl]

I'm also fine with picks-only.

 

[Namba 17]

Trade Committee

In the events of last year, we should try to clarify what we want from the trade committee as much as possible before starting the draft.

1) Do we need a trade committee or we go Wild Wild West?
2) Who will be part of the trade committee?
3) When does a trade gets officially vetoed?
4) How to handle a controversial and polarizing trade?
5) How to handle trades with first-timers?
6) Do we want a time limit on when someone can veto a trade?
7) When is a trade officially confirmed?
8) Do we want trading on the clock?
9) What to do when a trade occurs when no one is on the forum and the clock is upcoming?

Freedom. Wild West. No limits for picks, or players, or new managers trades.
Otherwise lets have a committee for picking and decide if some GM had an advantage over others because they picked better

 

[VanIslander]

Freedom. Wild West. No limits for picks, or players, or new managers trades...

A Wild Western conference of open trading.
A no-trade Eastern conference.

GMs choose which conference to go in (for those who have a strong preference between trading or no trading).

That way GMs like Dreakmur, Leaf Lander, Voight, Darth Yoda and I don't have to deal with trades as a factor (in the regular season rankings, divisional final or conference final) until the final series.

Win-win.

 

[Johnny Engine]

I kind of like this! Very MLB.

 

[BenchBrawl]

If the poll turns out equal or near equal we can consider this, but not if more people want trading or no-trading.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Different trade rules for different conferences would be by far the worst option.