ATD10 Draft Summary

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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How much of that is related to playing in the Bore-Us Norris his peak years is up for debate, but the guy was a dynamite playmaker.

...That's it. We sorta penalize WWII players, due to weak competition. Playing 24 games a year against AHL teams + sizeable part of the playoffs -- and for the Norris teams, it was really all the games, minus the beating against a Connie Smythe team -- will always raise some doubts, especially when talking about an offensive center which doesn't bring much as far as defense is concerned.
 

pappyline

Registered User
Jul 3, 2005
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i really like pappyline's suggested change of moving Modano to the third line and bumping Sundin and Keon up; i'd also suggest switching Mogilny and Kurri:

Hull-Sundin-Mogilny
Roberts-Keon-Kurri
Morrow-Modano-Ezinlki

:handclap:
I am in agreement.Mogilny will think he died & went to heaven with all that open ice and Roberts-Keon-Kurri is one of the best 2 way lines in the draft..
 
Jul 29, 2003
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Also, Federko's playoff record is very impressive. I believe he was the top scorer in the 86 playoffs, and he was well over a point-per-game for his career. How much of that is related to playing in the Bore-Us Norris his peak years is up for debate, but the guy was a dynamite playmaker.

Oh c'mon GBC, you know you just love him because he's from Foam Lake. ;)

Joking aside, I love Federko too(maybe for that reason), but I'm not sure he's a better fit than Modano. I think Modano works quite well enough on that line. Honestly, between Hull and Kurri you don't need that great of a centerman and they'll be fine. Didn't someone actually have those two last draft as well?

While we're on the subject of Federko, though, browsing his hockeydb page I noticed something funny. Not only did he go top 10 in both the NHL and WHA drafts(I always thought they took a CHL Import draft-line of thinking, and it looks like they did, although Federko went higher in the WHA one), but look who he went to. Maybe some of you know that, hell, probably most of you know that, but damn, can you imagine those teams if he went the WHA route over St.Louis? Hell, Bernie himself would probably be a very good first line center in this thing playing with Mess and Anderson.
 

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Good description of this line.

IMO Modano would do fine as the centre on this line. In the NHL Hull scored goals no matter who was his centre including some guys that will never be picked in this draft. However, in the NHL. he was most successful with Big centres who could get him the puck when he was at full speed. Modana fits the bill. Even better would be Sundin. Now Hull/Sundin/Kurri would be one helluva lins. Who would you key on. They would beat you both with finese & physical power. I would recommend the following:

Hull-Sundin-Kurri
Roberts-Keon-Molgilny
Morrow-Modano-Ezinlki
Davidson-Oliver-Nevin

LL really picked a nice group of forwards. Altho, they are a little hard to fit togeher. I think Keon on a 3rd line is a bit of a waste.
OK ill fall to peer pressure this one time

ty for the insights about my all time team

Hull-Sundin-Kurri
Roberts-Keon-Molgilny
Davidson-Modano-Ezinlki
Morrow-Oliver-Nevin

is my new look forwards
 

God Bless Canada

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Jul 11, 2004
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Oh c'mon GBC, you know you just love him because he's from Foam Lake. ;)

Joking aside, I love Federko too(maybe for that reason), but I'm not sure he's a better fit than Modano. I think Modano works quite well enough on that line. Honestly, between Hull and Kurri you don't need that great of a centerman and they'll be fine. Didn't someone actually have those two last draft as well?

While we're on the subject of Federko, though, browsing his hockeydb page I noticed something funny. Not only did he go top 10 in both the NHL and WHA drafts(I always thought they took a CHL Import draft-line of thinking, and it looks like they did, although Federko went higher in the WHA one), but look who he went to. Maybe some of you know that, hell, probably most of you know that, but damn, can you imagine those teams if he went the WHA route over St.Louis? Hell, Bernie himself would probably be a very good first line center in this thing playing with Mess and Anderson.
I was a Federko fan long before I moved to Saskatchewan and decided to start pimping every player from this province, or every player who played in the SJHL. (Note: of my five MLD teams, three have been SJHL squads - Notre Dame, Estevan and the Humboldt Indians, and another, the Estevan Strippers, is a fairly successful old-timers team).
 
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I was a Federko fan long before I moved to Saskatchewan and decided to start pimping every player from this province, or every player who played in the SJHL. (Note: of my five MLD teams, three have been SJHL squads - Notre Dame, Estevan and the Humboldt Indians, and another, the Estevan Strippers, is a fairly successful old-timers team).

The Strippers, you say? I think my dad may have played for them at one point. Or he had a hat with that name on it, at least.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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the Estevan Strippers, is a fairly successful old-timers team

I have some problems associating the words STRIPPER and OLD-TIMERS...
 

God Bless Canada

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I have some problems associating the words STRIPPER and OLD-TIMERS...
A lot of old-timer teams have "suggestive" names. I think a team from Brandon is named the Old Puckers.

Keep in mind that these leagues are a small step above rec hockey. There's some hitting, but when you're talking about old-times, it's over-35 and over-45 leagues, and the body just doesn't recover like it used to. (Right, Murphy?)

I have some friends who have played on the Strippers. They say the team is named after the strip coal mining that's prevalent down here, but I believe that Granny from Playboy is the team logo.

I'd never go with a team name like the Estevan Strippers for the ATD, but MLD is fun.

I think my MLD team will be the Melville Millionaires - the other team that's celebrating their 100th birthday this year.
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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A lot of old-timer teams have "suggestive" names. I think a team from Brandon is named the Old Puckers.

Keep in mind that these leagues are a small step above rec hockey. There's some hitting, but when you're talking about old-times, it's over-35 and over-45 leagues, and the body just doesn't recover like it used to. (Right, Murphy?)

I have some friends who have played on the Strippers. They say the team is named after the strip coal mining that's prevalent down here, but I believe that Granny from Playboy is the team logo.

I'd never go with a team name like the Estevan Strippers for the ATD, but MLD is fun.

I think my MLD team will be the Melville Millionaires - the other team that's celebrating their 100th birthday this year.

At least, you guys in Sask. are more original than us. Summum Chiefs de St-Jean was pretty awful. We did have some former NHL'ers however : Sasha Lakovic, Link Gaetz, Troy Crowder, Patrick Coté, Brandon Sugden (did Sugden play in the NHL?), Garnett Burnett (he was banned for throwing a net at he opposite goalie about 6 days before being shot on the west coast), and even a guy that was picked in other ATD's so I won't name him. Oh, and some MMA/UFC fighter. But I'm really talking about Semi-Pro here, not really old-timers.

Millionaires? Anything to do with the former West Coast team?
 
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God Bless Canada

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Jul 11, 2004
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At least, you guys in Sask. are more original than us. Summum Chiefs de St-Jean was pretty awful. We did have some former NHL'ers however : Sasha Lakovic, Link Gaetz, Troy Crowder, Patrick Coté, Brandon Sugden (did Sugden play in the NHL?), Garnett Burnett (he was banned for throwing a net at he opposite goalie about 6 days before being shot on the west coast), and even a guy that was picked in other ATD's so I won't name him. Oh, and some MMA/UFC fighter.

Millionaires? Anything to do with the former West Coast team?
I don't know if they were affiliated with the Vancouver Millionaires. I know they were a Saskatchewan affiliate during the O6 days. I can't remember if it was Toronto, Chicago or the Rangers. (Estevan was Boston's affiliate, Weyburn was Detroit's affiliate [both squads still carry the Bruin and Red Wing names], and Regina was Montreal's affiliate. I think Moose Jaw was Chicago's affiliate, but I'm not entirely sure).

Four former Millionaires were picked in the ATD: Eddie Shore, Sid Abel, Brian Propp and John Ferguson. My guess is another four former Mills will be chosen in the MLD.
 

Murphy

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Apr 2, 2005
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A lot of old-timer teams have "suggestive" names. I think a team from Brandon is named the Old Puckers.

Keep in mind that these leagues are a small step above rec hockey. There's some hitting, but when you're talking about old-times, it's over-35 and over-45 leagues, and the body just doesn't recover like it used to. (Right, Murphy?)

You got that right, its because of the beer.

I played a few games in a league like this for Coronation/Castor. People actually paid to watch this, lol
 

MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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I don't know if they were affiliated with the Vancouver Millionaires. I know they were a Saskatchewan affiliate during the O6 days. I can't remember if it was Toronto, Chicago or the Rangers. (Estevan was Boston's affiliate, Weyburn was Detroit's affiliate [both squads still carry the Bruin and Red Wing names], and Regina was Montreal's affiliate. I think Moose Jaw was Chicago's affiliate, but I'm not entirely sure).

Four former Millionaires were picked in the ATD: Eddie Shore, Sid Abel, Brian Propp and John Ferguson. My guess is another four former Mills will be chosen in the MLD.

Humm.... local junior team? Gerard Gallant and Sid the Kid. But the junior team moved, and changed names, so Sid never played around here. Have a shot at one MLD'er and some EXTREME longshots. We also had a guy who probably was on the last four olympic teams of his country.

As for locals players? JDD.
 

God Bless Canada

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Jul 11, 2004
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Estevan is the junior team that I've covered for over eight years. Three junior Bruins were picked in this draft - Joe Watson, Dallas Smith and Ross Lonsberry. A member of our bantam program, Brenden Morrow was also picked.

At least one more Bruin will be picked in the MLD, and raleh and I were looking at another one to be our assistant coach.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
36,202
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Regina, SK
Good description of this line.

IMO Modano would do fine as the centre on this line. In the NHL Hull scored goals no matter who was his centre including some guys that will never be picked in this draft.

He was also playing against many players who would never be picked in this thing. Did he ever have the 28th best 1st line center in the league feeding him pucks?
 

ck26

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Jan 31, 2007
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He was also playing against many players who would never be picked in this thing. Did he ever have the 28th best 1st line center in the league feeding him pucks?
The problem is that neither Sundin nor Keon are really first-rate 1st line centers in this thing either. LL has 3 guys who are all #2's in my mind. If he had wingers like mine (Lanny McDonald, Dave Andreychuk, Brian Bellows), this would be a problem for his offense, but he has a truly generational talent in Hull and one of the best complimentary wingers of all time in Kurri. I think it's a badass first line, and I like it regardless of which of those three is in the middle of it.
 

pappyline

Registered User
Jul 3, 2005
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Mass/formerly Ont
He was also playing against many players who would never be picked in this thing. Did he ever have the 28th best 1st line center in the league feeding him pucks?
The answer is yes but I would get in trouble naming them because they haven't been picked & probably won't be even in the minor league draft.
 

Sturminator

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Feb 27, 2002
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...That's it. We sorta penalize WWII players, due to weak competition. Playing 24 games a year against AHL teams + sizeable part of the playoffs -- and for the Norris teams, it was really all the games, minus the beating against a Connie Smythe team -- will always raise some doubts, especially when talking about an offensive center which doesn't bring much as far as defense is concerned.

I must be missing the point of this...you're not actually comparing the 80's Norris Division to the war years, are you? I dunno, but it seems like you're trying to discount the scoring acievements of the forwards who are picked from this set, which would be most specifically (off the top of my head...I'm sure there are others) Steve Yzerman, Bernie Federko, the Chicago Party Line, Rick Vaive, and Bellows/Broten/Ciccarelli in Minnesota. A few points should be made here:

1) It was called the Bore Us Norris because it was generally weak, and specifically weak in terms of scoring, not because the Norris division teams of this era were giving away goals.

2) It was the offenses that were particularly bad, hence the boring label. If you look over the league scoring tables from this period, you'll find that the Norris was consistently the worst division in the NHL in terms of total goals for. For a Norris Division team to crack 300 goals in a season in this period was a real achievement. If any players from the 80's Norris should be discounted, it certainly isn't the forwards.

3) Teams in this era played their division rivals 8 times each per season. In the Norris, this meant that 32 out of the 80 games were interdivisional matchups. Calling that "really all the games" is very misleading.

4) The forwards in the Norris still had to compete with the rest of the league forwards for trophies, all-star nods, places in the top-10 scoring tables, etc. - and this was arguably the highest competitive era in NHL history. We discount achievements in the war years because they came against a grossly weakened field. That's not the case for the stars of the Norris, who had to fight for their meat against a full-strength league in an era of tremendous scoring competition. If the entire NHL had consisted of just the Norris Division during this era, then we could compare it to the war years. The reality is something rather different.

I realize the statement you made was probably hyperbole and not meant to be taken literally, but I still think a good deal of clarification was needed. Sorry if I have misinterpreted the point you were trying to make.

edit: full season was 80 rather than 82 games in this era
 
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Jul 29, 2003
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Estevan is the junior team that I've covered for over eight years. Three junior Bruins were picked in this draft - Joe Watson, Dallas Smith and Ross Lonsberry. A member of our bantam program, Brenden Morrow was also picked.

At least one more Bruin will be picked in the MLD, and raleh and I were looking at another one to be our assistant coach.

Figured you covered the Bruins. I imagine there's a good amount of names I could drop that you know/have covered. Despite Melville's fascination with putting local boys on the team and me knowing many of them, the Bruins might be the team with the most guys I know. Well, not right now, but over the past 3 seasons or so.
 

AlanHoff

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Sep 26, 2008
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Sorry for the lack of reviews and I appreciate everyone who has looked at my team...I broke my wrist so typing with just my left hand and 2 right fingers has been tough :)
 

God Bless Canada

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The Norris was a joke in the 80s, up until 89-90. There was one season in which the best team was under .500 (86-87), one season in which it had the two worst teams in the league (87-88) and a couple years in which .500 was good enough to win the division. I would also say that there were years in which the last place team in the Smythe would have beat the best in the Norris in a seven-game series.

The Smythe champion beat the Norris champ every year from 82-90. Usually those series were not close.

And this was when teams played division rivals eight times a year.

Do I think that Federko and Savard's stats benefitted from playing those dreadful teams eight times a year? Yes. Do I think it's a WWII-esque spike? No. Not even close. I think Federko becomes a 90 point guy, with a ceiling of maybe 100 points, if he's in another division (say, the parity-filled Adams) instead of a consistent 100-point guy.

I said when Rick Middleton was picked that if he played in the Norris, that he would have been a consistent 100-point player with a ceiling of about 120 points. (He hit 100 points twice, and scored at a 100-point clip one other time).
 
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MXD

Original #4
Oct 27, 2005
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The Norris was a joke in the 80s, up until 89-90. There was one season in which the best team was under .500 (86-87), one season in which it had the two worst teams in the league (87-88) and a couple years in which .500 was good enough to win the division. I would also say that there were years in which the last place team in the Smythe would have beat the best in the Norris in a seven-game series.

The Smythe champion beat the Norris champ every year from 82-90. Usually those series were not close.

And this was when teams played division rivals eight times a year.

Do I think that Federko and Savard's stats benefitted from playing those dreadful teams eight times a year? Yes. Do I think it's a WWII-esque spike? No. Not even close. I think Federko becomes a 90 point guy, with a ceiling of maybe 100 points, if he's in another division (say, the parity-filled Adams) instead of a consistent 100-point guy.

I said when Rick Middleton was picked that if he played in the Norris, that he would have been a consistent 100-point player with a ceiling of about 120 points. (He hit 100 points twice, and scored at a 100-point clip one other time).

Call me biased, but a 49 pts performance during the 43-44 season while playing on a 2nd line (with the best hockey line ever as the 1st line, at least, until then) with linemates who aren't ATD'ers is more impressive than obtaining 103 pts while playing with an HHOF and an ATD'er (for a lack of a better qualificative...) against such luminaries like Tim Bernhardt, Corrado Micalef and Murray Bannerman (okay, Bannerman wasn't THAT bad).

Federko wouldn't have notched 100 points in the Adams, unless he took Peter Stastny's job in Quebec (which he obviously wouldn't, and even then, I'm not really sure he would've hit 100).
 
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Leaf Lander

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:leafs
Coach:Ron Wilson
Ast Coach: Pat Quinn
Captain:Bobby Hull
Ast:Mike Modano Ast:Bob Nevin
Ast:Barclay Plager Ast:Mats Sundin

#9 Bobby Hull -#13 Mats Sundin -#89 Alexander Mogilny
#7 Gary Roberts-#14 Dave Keon- #17 Jari Kurri
#18 Bob Davidson-#9 Mike Modano-#11 Bob Nevin
#12 Brenden Morrow:-#11 Murray Oliver-#12 Bill Ezinicki
#71 Evgeni Malkin LW/C

#2 Babe Pratt-#26 Allan Stanley
# 8 Barclay Plager-#7 Stefan Perrson
#72 Mathieu Schneider-#10 Ted Harris
#15 Tomas Kaberle

#1 Turk Broda,G
#31 Curtis Joseph,G


PP Unit 1:
Hull-Modano-Kurri
Pratt-Stanley

PP Unit 2:
Roberts-Sundin-Mogilny
Schneider-Kaberle

PK Unit 1:
Morrow-Keon-Nevin
Pratt-Stanley

PK Unit 2:
Davidson-Oliver-Ezinicki
Plager-Perrson
 

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