ATD Chat Thread XI

[TheDevilMadeMe]

continue talking about whatever

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[Hawkey Town 18]

Who wrote that Stamkos would be better next time?

It was implied by jarek. His last post on the issue is below, which was a continuation of his previous posts in which he said he thought Tampa would destroy Chicago next year because they came close this year with Johnson injured and Stamkos not scoring. The assumption there is that next year Johnson is not injured and Stamkos is scoring.

It was more of a tip of the cap to just how good I think Tampa will be next year than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised to see Tampa win the cup next year.



Sorry, to clarify I meant Tampa came pretty close to beating them. They were all 1 goal games (except the last game), and they did this pretty much without Stamkos or Johnson, their two best forwards.

 

[Hobnobs]

It was implied by jarek. His last post on the issue is below, which was a continuation of his previous posts in which he said he thought Tampa would destroy Chicago next year because they came close this year with Johnson injured and Stamkos not scoring. The assumption there is that next year Johnson is not injured and Stamkos is scoring.

All i get from that post is that tampa pushed Chicago this year without stamkos. It doesnt imply that stamkos will turn into a playoff beast.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

All i get from that post is that tampa pushed Chicago this year without stamkos. It doesnt imply that stamkos will turn into a playoff beast.

It's certainly open to interpretation, but if you look at the entire conversation I think it's a reasonable assumption. I only posted the last part and paraphrased the rest. Here's the below response to BB challenging jarek's claim that Tampa will destroy Chicago next year...

I doubt it if Chicago can play 6 defensemen.

Tampa came pretty close this year, and with an injured Tyler Johnson and a Stamkos who just couldn't score..

The way I read that is "they were close this year and they had these 2 things keeping them from being their best, which I expect to be better next year"

Like I said open to interpretation, but I think the above is certainly one of the reasonable ways of to interpret jarek's comments

 

[jarek]

Yes, I do think Stamkos will be better next year. He had a great hot streak going in the earlier rounds this year and I imagine the experience of coming so close to the cup will do wonders for him.

That being said, I don't think it's fair to say Stamkos cost Tampa a cup, as Hobnobs stated. Many things cost Tampa the cup.. including the magnificent play of Chicago, more than anything else.

 

[Theokritos]

I don't know how often you guys visit the main boards (usually I don't pay attention to them at all), but I've got a voting running there at the moment to determine the best players of the 2014-15 season. Some of you have already voted there in fact, but for those who haven't: it would be nice if you gave it a look! See Link.

 

[Hobnobs]

Yes, I do think Stamkos will be better next year. He had a great hot streak going in the earlier rounds this year and I imagine the experience of coming so close to the cup will do wonders for him.

That being said, I don't think it's fair to say Stamkos cost Tampa a cup, as Hobnobs stated. Many things cost Tampa the cup.. including the magnificent play of Chicago, more than anything else.

Well, when your goal scorer dont score at all. It basically costs you the cup. Now is he the olny reason? Ofc not. That would be silly.

 

[Elvis P]

Stamkos has 35 points in 48 career playoff games. He's not a great playoff scorer.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Anyone who still frequently posts here and isn't in the MLD we need at least one more.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Karlsson wins his 2nd Norris per ESPN.

Makes me feel even better about my pick this year

 

[ImporterExporter]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=100725839&postcount=507

Looks like I got them all right back on 4/12

But seriously, they were the right choices all the way around IMO.

 

[seventieslord]

they got all the awards right, IMO.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

they got all the awards right, IMO.

I agree, as well.

Seems like making the playoffs has suddenly become mostly unimportant to the writers. 2nd season in a row the Norris runner up missed the playoffs, and we actually have a Selke winner who missed it too.

Personally, I think Doughty's Norris votes this year are kind of reminiscent of Langway's - writers wanting to prove that defense matters when high scorers have been getting too much praise recently.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I agree, as well.

Seems like making the playoffs has suddenly become mostly unimportant to the writers. 2nd season in a row the Norris runner up missed the playoffs, and we actually have a Selke winner who missed it too.

Personally, I think Doughty's Norris votes this year are kind of reminiscent of Langway's - writers wanting to prove that defense matters when high scorers have been getting too much praise recently.

Chara was runner-up last year and Boston made the playoffs. Weber was a close 3rd and Nashville missed the playoffs.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Chara was runner-up last year and Boston made the playoffs. Weber was a close 3rd and Nashville missed the playoffs.

Oops, I obviously meant weber, but even being a norris finalist on a non-playoff team has almost never happened

 

[Elvis P]

I won our bracket challenge by 45 points. http://bracketchallenge.nhl.com/?locale=en#/league/72049 No draft talk!?! There's so much McDavid and Eichel hype, some consider them the 2 best post-Crosby players. Better than Kane, Stamkos, Tavares, Toews!?! idk. I think Hanifin should have gone 3rd. I don't like Lucic going to the Kings as a possible playoff matchup for the Hawks. The Bruins want to get younger so they trade the solid 22 year old Hamilton and their 3rd pick in the first round was a 2nd rounder. Those 2 moves are incomprehensible.

 

[jarek]

Everything Boston has done lately has been incomprehensible. For some reason they just don't want to pay people what they're worth.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Everything Boston has done lately has been incomprehensible. For some reason they just don't want to pay people what they're worth.

I don't know why they traded Hamilton, he's 22 years old.Chara was 29 years old when he signed with Boston.That's 7 years from now before Hamilton is Chara's age when he signed with the Bruins, plenty of time to keep Hamilton and rebuild with him as part of the team and still benefit from his presence once the rebuild is done.

Trading Seguin was also weird, and if it's really about off-ice issues perhaps they could have been more patient given his age.

After trading Hamilton there's no reason to keep Bergeron.They should trade him and get the maximum return if his contract permits it.

 

[jarek]

I don't know why they traded Hamilton, he's 22 years old.Chara was 29 years old when he signed with Boston.That's 7 years from now before Hamilton is Chara's age when he signed with the Bruins, plenty of time to keep Hamilton and rebuild with him as part of the team and still benefit from his presence once the rebuild is done.

Trading Seguin was also weird, and if it's really about off-ice issues perhaps they could have been more patient given his age.

After trading Hamilton there's no reason to keep Bergeron.They should trade him and get the maximum return if his contract permits it.

They traded him because they didn't like his asking price. They traded Seguin because they didn't like his attitude.

Now they're trading any hope of contention for a rebuild.

 

[seventieslord]

There's so much McDavid and Eichel hype, some consider them the 2 best post-Crosby players. Better than Kane, Stamkos, Tavares, Toews!?! idk.

Yeah. I'd say. None of those guys are "special" players in the sense that they have a chance of making the top-10 on our HOH lists. Crosby could. Not saying he will, but he's at least good enough that he can.

McDavid at this point projects to be a Crosby+, IMO. Eichel probably more of a Malkin-level talent. (Tavares seemed like a Crosby/Crosby+ but hasn't lived up to that. )

Anyway, yes I'm sure McDavid is the best post-Crosby prospect, though I'm not 100% sure Eichel will end up #2 on that list.

 

[jarek]

All of those guys are under 30 years of age (I think). Why do they have no chance of making the HOH top-10? Any of them in their prime could go on a 10 year tear. Though obviously for some of them it'll have to happen very, very soon.

Excited for Marner. The way I see it, he's basically Kessel but much better because they say he's a more complete player and doesn't shy away from physical contact. Which.. I guess makes him not really "basically Kessel". Still though, hopefully he turns out good. Could be the next Giroux if he settles nicely at center.

 

[BenchBrawl]

(Tavares seemed like a Crosby/Crosby+ but hasn't lived up to that. )Eichel probably more of a Malkin-level talent.

I don't recall Tavares looking like a Crosby/Crosby+ when he was drafted.IIRC he had a very strong season as a 16 years old but "slowed down" after that.

Eichel probably more of a Malkin-level talent.

I remember Malkin as a prospect as I was particularly interested in him.He was exactly my favorite style of player, tall center with a complete offensive arsenal.Fluid skating, agility, stickhandling, IQ, playmaking, good shots, crazy 1-on-1 moves, the available highlights videos at the time left me deeply impressed.I doubt Eichel is as good as Malkin was but we shall see.

 

[Johnny Engine]

I don't know why they traded Hamilton, he's 22 years old.Chara was 29 years old when he signed with Boston.That's 7 years from now before Hamilton is Chara's age when he signed with the Bruins, plenty of time to keep Hamilton and rebuild with him as part of the team and still benefit from his presence once the rebuild is done.

Trading Seguin was also weird, and if it's really about off-ice issues perhaps they could have been more patient given his age.

After trading Hamilton there's no reason to keep Bergeron.They should trade him and get the maximum return if his contract permits it.

I have to think that the idea is to bring a core of ~96 births into an environment led by winners like Bergeron and Chara, while letting go of everyone entering their prime. Weird idea, given that Seguin/Hamilton/Rask is a great core for the next 5-7 years, and mid 1st rounders are probably good NHLers, but basically magic beans when it comes to finding core franchise talent.

They traded him because they didn't like his asking price. They traded Seguin because they didn't like his attitude.

Now they're trading any hope of contention for a rebuild.

Forest, trees.

I wonder what Hamilton would have gotten in arbitration? If the Bruins thought he'd just end up getting 5.5 there, perhaps that's just the right price.
cap management =/= going to any length to avoid paying for players.

 

[BraveCanadian]

cap management =/= going to any length to avoid paying for players.

It is interesting how in one way the cap is doing what it is supposed to. Partly because of dumb moves/contracts and partly because they all sacrificed some future for some now.

The recent strong teams (LA, Boston, Chicago) are all in a horrendous cap situation and have to make some big moves to hold on to pieces that they want to keep.

Was still surprised by Hamilton getting traded but if his ask is really in the 7 million neighbourhood then they were better off picking a destination than losing him to an offer sheet.


That all being said I am really not a fan at all of the cap circumvention the Leafs have pulled and Philly/Arizona pulled. They need to fix these loopholes so that, after being held accountable a couple of times and submarining their team for half a decade, managers stop giving out stupid contracts.

 

[jarek]

Forest, trees.

I wonder what Hamilton would have gotten in arbitration? If the Bruins thought he'd just end up getting 5.5 there, perhaps that's just the right price.
cap management =/= going to any length to avoid paying for players.

Even if that is the right price, it sounds like that's a price the Bruins do not want to pay regardless. My guess is they wanted him for no more than 4-4.5.

That all being said I am really not a fan at all of the cap circumvention the Leafs have pulled and Philly/Arizona pulled. They need to fix these loopholes so that, after being held accountable a couple of times and submarining their team for half a decade, managers stop giving out stupid contracts.

I don't think either case is an example of circumvention because the league neither rejected either deal, nor complained about them after the fact. If YOU think it's circumvention, that's another thing entirely.

If we truly want to get rid of these scenarios though, then we also have to get rid of guaranteed contracts. I don't think it is fair to teams to sign a guy who they think will do X, but then goes on to perform at X-5 level. They get stuck with the cap hit and have to continue paying the guy to underperform. Alex Semin, Ville Leino, Scott Gomez all come to mind.