ATD #11, Jim Robson Semifinals. Detroit Red Wings (2) vs. Wacken Warriors (3)

[seventieslord]

Please post your rosters. If I have made any mistake in the titling of this thread, please let me know and I will edit it. Good luck to both.

Click to read more...

 

[Jungosi]

Coach : Cecil Hart

Sid Smith - Joe Sakic - Andy Bathgate
Rick Martin - Reg Noble - Babe Dye
Hec Kilrea - Walt Tkaczuk - Eric Nesterenko
Ryan Walter - Metro Prystai - Gary Dornhoefer
Alexander Almetov

Bill Quackenbush - Ken Reardon
Moose Johnson - Jim Schoenfeld
Frantisek Tikal - Mark Tinordi
Jimmy Roberts , Battleship Leduc

Jacques Plante
Gerry McNeil

Powerplay :

Sid Smith - Joe Sakic - Andy Bathgate
Bill Quackenbush - Jim Schoenfeld

Rick Martin - Reg Noble - Cecil Dye
Ken Reardon - Moose Johnson

Penalty Kill :

Kilrea - Tkaczuk
Quackenbush - Reardon

Walter - Prystai
Johnson - Schoenfeld

 

[Spitfire11]

Detroit Red Wings
Coach: Tommy Ivan
spares: Paul Henderson, Marty Walsh

Sweeney Schriner - Ted Kennedy - Jarome Iginla
Paul Thompson - Marty Barry - Frank Foyston
Jack Walker - Phil Watson - Ron Ellis
Craig Simpson - Edgar Laprade - Ken Wharram

Red Kelly - Fern Flaman
Bob Goldham - Edward Ivanov
Barry Beck - Tommy Anderson
Tomas Jonsson

Dominik Hasek
Percy LeSueur


PP1: Sweeney Schriner - Ted Kennedy - Jarome Iginla - Tommy Anderson - Red Kelly
PP2: Paul Thompson - Marty Barry - Frank Foyston - Barry Beck - Edward Ivanov

PK1: Edgar Laprade - Jack Walker - Fern Flaman - Bob Goldham
PK2: Ted Kennedy - Ron Ellis - Red Kelly - Edward Ivanov
PK3: Phil Watson - Paul Thompson


Thanks

 

[Jungosi]

Busy times for me so I can't comment on this series as much as I want to but here is some head-to-head comparision :

Goaltending

By far the easiest match-up. Eeeeeeeeeeeeven

Defense

This is really the key to the series. Your first pairing outmatches mine by a solid margin but the gap isn't too huge. While Kelly of course blow Quackenbush out of the water, I think that Reardon's strong peak surpasses Flaman.

In my eyes Johnson is what elevates my second pairing above Goldham - Ivanov. You can say about the PCHA competition level what you want but that amount of all-star selections shoul count for something.

Third pairing are relatively even. Again. Tikal is a bit of a wild card depending on how voters value European defenseman. But note that he was named best defenseman of the IIHF World Championships in '64 and '65.

So I'd say that the defensive corps are relatively even with a slight edge for Detroit due to having a top-10 defenseman with gamebreaking qualities.

Offense

Again the Sakic-Bathgate duo is the biggest offensive threat in the series. Neither Kennedy nor Iginla while being great offensive players can reach them the water. Schriner of course is better than Smith but he does not provide enough to even out the advantage I have with Sakic-Bathgate.

Both second lines have a lot of firepower. MXD made me aware of how good a player Barry actually was and has the edge on Noble. Frank Foyston was also a fine pick but I think Dye provides more offense then him neither was renowed for his defensive play as far as I know. Martin is the better goal scorer and Thompson the better playmaker so they even out each other. So the lines are really equal in strenght but Dye's offense gives me the nod here.

I must admit that I am a huuuuuge fan of your third line. The Watson - Ellis duo is awesome. I can't deny that they really give you much more offense then my third line does. Defensively however I think it is even.

Your forth line also follows a more offene-oriented approach. Laprade gives them a defensive conscience but I am not so sure about Simpson and Wharram. My line however gives me exactly what I want from them. Defense, Energy and (limited) offensive ability.

Concluding I think that Wacken has a small advantage when it comes to offense.

more tomorrow or so.

 

[seventieslord]

A couple of additions to Jungosi's comments:

- Don't downplay the significance of all those PCHA All-Star selections. The competition level was always anywhere from 80%-110% that of the NHA/NHL, and most of his selections were first team. Johnson is a stud, make no mistake about it.

- You're right that Foyston wasn't really a renowned defensive player. But Dye was actually renowned for being the opposite. He was a poor skater and lazy backchecker.

- I can't agree that the third lines are equal defensively. Wacken's has three good defensive players, while Detroit's has, from right to left, one good one, one great one, and an elite one.

- I do agree that Simpson and Wharram are right near the bottom of my list as far as fourth line players go. I don't know what this line is going to do. For that reason I would give the 4th line edge to Wacken.

- The other remaining GMs around the league must be delighted to know that a top-3 goalie will be eliminated this round.

 

[Sturminator]

- Don't downplay the significance of all those PCHA All-Star selections. The competition level was always anywhere from 80%-110% that of the NHA/NHL, and most of his selections were first team. Johnson is a stud, make no mistake about it.

Agree. Johnson's body of work is quite impressive. I've got him solidly in my top-50 all-time defensemen list, which makes him more like an average #2D in a 28 team draft. As a #3, he is simply outstanding. It is hard to pick a winner between the 2nd units. Detroit has the better 2nd line (mostly because of the imbalance at center, though we should also not discount Paul Thompson's excellent 2-way game), but Wacken the better 2nd pairing.

Sort of the opposite of the 1st unit comparison, where what I just said is flip-flopped vis-a-vis lines and pairings. I will add that I think Flaman is better than Reardon - not by a huge amount and not because of peak value, but the large difference in longevity has to count for something.

- I can't agree that the third lines are equal defensively. Wacken's has three good defensive players, while Detroit's has, from right to left, one good one, one great one, and an elite one.

While I agree with you about the strength of Detroit's 3rd line (it is truly outstanding), I think you aren't giving Walt Tkaczuk enough credit here. He is an elite checking center (who can also contribute a bit offensively) in no uncertain terms.

- I do agree that Simpson and Wharram are right near the bottom of my list as far as fourth line players go. I don't know what this line is going to do. For that reason I would give the 4th line edge to Wacken.

Yes, although Detroit's 3rd line wins the comparison easily, the 4th line is a bit of a mess. This series looks to be very close.

 

[Spitfire11]

Why do you believe my 4th line wouldn't work well? It's basically a poor(obviously) version of the scooter line, with Wharram as Wharram bringing tremendous speed and top goal scoring ability, Laprade brings the defense/playmaking/faceoff skills that Mikita did, and Simpson brings the size, grunt work, and adds some more scoring (especially in the playoffs) ala McDonald/Mohns.

I believe they would outscore a Walter-Prystai-Dorhoefer unit if matched up against them, and if they get stuck against another of Wacken's lines on the road, they can play defense well enough to hold their own. I actually think they'd do well against Wacken's 3rd line as well. My 4th line will also stay out of the penalty box which is pretty important. Dorhoefer and Walter will probably give my powerplay a couple chances over this series.

I do like Jungosi's team a lot as well, but I think my team can pull through this tough series with our scoring depth. I'll try to respond to the rest later.

 

[Jungosi]

Hmm I thought this had the potential to go over the full distance but anyway. Congratulations to Spitfire and good luck in the next round!







(damn I love this third line)

 

[Spitfire11]

Thanks Jungosi, you built one of my favourite teams in the draft. I believe I ranked it as the best in our tough division. Definitely an ATD champion quality team, and I feel fortunate to make it through this one.

 

[seventieslord]

The Detroit Red Wings (2) vs. The Wacken Warriors (3)

Game Results:

Detroit Red Wings: 1 - Wacken Warriors: 2
Detroit Red Wings: 2 - Wacken Warriors: 1
Wacken Warriors: 3 - Detroit Red Wings: 2
Wacken Warriors: 0 - Detroit Red Wings: 1 OT
Detroit Red Wings: 3 - Wacken Warriors: 1
Wacken Warriors: 0 - Detroit Red Wings: 2


The Detroit Red Wings (2) defeats The Wacken Warriors (3) in 6 games.

Series Three Stars

1: Dominik Hasek - Detroit Red Wings
2: Andy Bathgate - Wacken Warriors
3: Red Kelly - Detroit Red Wings


Series Recap:

- Dominik Hasek and Jacques Plante were both phenomenal for their respective team. Together, they only allowed 18 goals in 6 games. However, ''The Dominator'' was just a little better, making some huge, if not impossible'' saves, especailly during the 6th and final game of the series.

- The Ted Kennedy / Joe Sakic showndown was phenomenal to watch. Both players displayed their best skillset while being extremely intense. Both players recorded 3 goals each, but ''Teeder'' was able to score 2 games winner goals, including the first goal of the 6th game in Warrior.