ATD #11 Draft Summary

[EagleBelfour]

Teams are finishing up their lineup, mostly selecting spare parts. It's time to get some discussion going, get our mind rolling and slowly starting to rank the competition. Along with the assassination thread, this thread is always good fun!

--------------------------------

Biggest Steal of the draft:
Biggest Reach of the draft:
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft:
Biggest blunder selection of the draft:
A Player finally getting respect in the draft:
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft:
A player you've discovered in this draft:
Most underrated player taken:
Most overrated player taken:
Favourite line of the draft:
Best assembled line of the draft:
Worst assembled line of the draft:
Favourite pairing of defensemen:
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen:
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals:
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals:
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft:
Best/Worst selection by round:
1st round;
2nd round;
3rd round;
4th round;
5th round;
6th round;
7th round;
8th round;
9th round;
10th round;
11th round;
12th round;
13rd round;
14th round;
15th round;
16th round;
17th round;
18th round;
19th round;
20th round;
21st round;
22nd round;
23rd round;
24th round;

Click to read more...

 

[VanIslander]

20 teams have done trades. Only these eight teams stuck to drafting as per draft position:

shawnmullin & pappyline - Trail Smoke Eaters
Vanislander & Hockey Outsider - Thunder Bay Twins
Jungosi - Wacken Warriors
Zamboni Mania - Colorado Avalanche
Transplanted Caper - Glace Bay Miners
GodBlessCanada & raleh - New Westminster Bruins
Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs
Wisent - Anyang Halla

 

[EagleBelfour]

20 teams have done trades. Only these eight teams stuck to drafting as per draft position:

shawnmullin & pappyline - Trail Smoke Eaters
Vanislander & Hockey Outsider - Thunder Bay Twins
Jungosi - Wacken Warriors
Zamboni Mania - Colorado Avalanche
Transplanted Caper - Glace Bay Miners
GodBlessCanada & raleh - New Westminster Bruins
Leaf Lander - Toronto Maple Leafs
Wisent - Anyang Halla

So, how was your experience VanI? Known for trading numerous time in previous draft, were you itchy pulling the trigger on some trades?

 

[VanIslander]

Biggest Steal of the draft: Bruce Stuart (538th overall)
Biggest Reach of the draft: Eric Lindros (98th overall)
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft: Viktor Kuzkin
Biggest blunder selection of the draft: Doug Barkley
A Player finally getting respect in the draft: Harry Hyland (397th overall)
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft: Chris Drury (478th)
A player you've discovered in this draft: Percy Galbraith
Most underrated player taken: Dick Irvin Sr (556th overall)
Most overrated player taken: Martin Brodeur (24th overall)
Favourite line of the draft: Alexandrov - Steen - Gustafsson
Best assembled line of the draft:S. Smith - Sakic - Bathgate
Worst assembled line of the draft: Wendal Clark - Dale Hunter - Ace Bailey (and 2nd line?!)
Favourite pairing of defensemen: B. Park-E. Bouchard
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen: Scott Stevens-Cyclone Taylor
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals:Regina Pats
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals: Hampton Roads Admirals
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft: none really this time - Dickie Moore's childhood idol was Drillon was interesting
Best/Worst selection by round:
1st round; Hasek 26th/Brodeur 24th
2nd round; Kharlamov 35th/Horton 48th
3rd round; Bathgate 77th/Forsberg 63rd
4th round; Stastny 108th/Tremblay 112th
5th round; Jackson 120th/Flaman 131st
6th round; Larionov 145th/Kerr 154th
7th round; Dye 189th/Ross 175th
8th round; Pitre 201st/Kovalchuk 219th
9th round; Talbot 251st/Malkin 225th
10th round; Nieuwendyk 272nd/Sanderson 280th
11th round; McGee 296th/Westfall 281st
12th round; Starshinov 333rd/O'Reilly 327th
13rd round; H. Pulford 344th/Sather 352nd
14th round; Burch 382nd/Korab 389th
15th round; Dunderdale 415th/Morrow 419th
16th round; Curry 438th/Kurtenbach 436th
17th round; Tarasov 452nd/Berenson 462nd
18th round; Drinkwater 500th/Peirson 499th
19th round; Oliver 513th/Patrick 516th
20th round; B.Stuart 538th/Walter 540th
21st round; Ross 562nd/Osgood 567th
22nd round; Roberts 596th/Barkley 600th
23rd round;
24th round;

note: best/worst picks of round does NOT mean favorites or disliked players, just VALUE relative to other guys who were drafted earlier/later

 

[VanIslander]

Known for trading numerous time in previous draft

I was the most prolific ATD trader!

So, how was your experience VanI? Known for trading numerous time in previous draft, were you itchy pulling the trigger on some trades?

early on, when a couple of guys dropped, but actually it was pretty easy given how disgusting some trades were this draft (sorry, but it's true - it got me thinking NOBODY should trade one of these atds, we should see how teams look when everyone drafts as per draft position)

i'm cured of trade fever

 

[hfboardsuser]

How is a 22nd round pick the 'blunder of the draft'? I mean, I guess if he's that bad, I could use another pick on another #6- there are lots of them. I just don't see how Barkley will have that much of an impact on a team from the bottom pairing.

 

[chaosrevolver]

Nice to see my 4th line as your favourite line. It will be dangerous..if used well.

Wondering about Berenson being the worst pick of the 17th round? A very good defensive player who had 7 20+ goal seasons. He played 35-40 minutes a game under Scotty Bowman and was counted on to shutdown the top players on the other teams and also was counted to provide offense. He truly played in every situation. Want more? He was a great leader who provided lot's of experience. He was a captain for 2 different teams for 6 years in total.

 

[VanIslander]

How is a 22nd round pick the 'blunder of the draft'? I mean, I guess if he's that bad, I could use another pick on another #6- there are lots of them. I just don't see how Barkley will have that much of an impact on a team from the bottom pairing.

a blunder/mistake given several other available undrafted guys, but yeah, you have a point: in terms of the team line-up, not a blunder, as 6/7 dmen are marginal

...

the biggest blunder from a team building perspective in an ATD context would have to be drafting Crosby then on a team that already has Ovechkin on a scoring line - i know it's hard to watch this postseason and think so but after watching playoffs for a quarter century - and especially considering all careers in an all-time context - having TWO relatively very inexperienced (4-yr career, no cups) short career guys among the top two lines in the ATD is a very unwise move

perhaps if the team drafted another offensive center and played Crosby on the 4th line in the ATD, but the team didn't, except for roenick much later, sitting as 4th line rw at the moment

 

[EagleBelfour]

I was the most prolific ATD trader!


early on, when a couple of guys dropped, but actually it was pretty easy given how disgusting some trades were this draft (sorry, but it's true - it got me thinking NOBODY should trade one of these atds, we should see how teams look when everyone drafts as per draft position)

i'm cured of trade fever

One of the trade you're referring of probably is the infamous Papershoes-EagleBelfour trade. However, looking at Papershoes team, I'll say either the trade was not as bad as people thought, or that Papershoes is a great GM, because he manage to put together a strong team. Probably a little bit of both

I'm ready for an ATD#12 no trade draft.

 

[hfboardsuser]

a blunder/mistake given several other available undrafted guys, but yeah, you have a point: in terms of the team line-up, not a blunder, as 6/7 dmen are marginal

My scope for that pick was admittedly very small- I was looking for a right-handed shot who a) had had 100+ PIM frequently and b) been among the league-leaders at D for goals. I do agree that the other two most obvious options had better/longer careers. But personality played a huge part; mainly because he didn't play long enough, we don't know if Barkley would have been an inconsistent malcontent like X and Y. But I'd prefer to have the guy who never gained that reputation.

I do have another pick in mind for my #7 D that I think would do very well as a regular, even though he's been a press boxer every year. I think it's his time, and I hope I get him.

Edit: I should mention the thing that really sold me on Barkley was that even though he only played four years in the show, he was remarkably consistent:

1956-57- Co-lead Calgary Stampeders D in goals
1957-58- 2nd among Calgary Stampeders D in goals (one goal off)
1958-59- 3rd among Calgary Stampeders D in goals (two off)
1959-60- Co-lead Calgary Stampeders D in goals
1960-61- Lead Buffalo Bisons D in goals
1961-62- Lead Calgary Stampeders D in goals
1962-63- Finished one goal behind Bill Gadsby
1963-64- Lead Wings in goals from D; league in goals from D
1964-65- Lead Wings in goals from D
1965-66- Lead Wings in goals from D (despite only 43 GP)

Yes, he had a short career, but the signs were there even in the minors that he was among the best in whatever league he played in at scoring from the blueline.

 

[papershoes]

One of the trade you're referring of probably is the infamous Papershoes-EagleBelfour trade. However, looking at Papershoes team, I'll say either the trade was not as bad as people thought, or that Papershoes is a great GM, because he manage to put together a strong team. Probably a little bit of both

I'm ready for an ATD#12 no trade draft.

...maybe add in some luck.

thanks for the compliment eb - especially coming from one of the atd's finest gm's.

even though i was the architect of some of the crazier trades this atd, i'd definitely be in favour of a "no-trading" atd next time.

 

[EagleBelfour]

(I didn't included any of my selection, although they should be all over the place in the ''best'' section )

Biggest Steal of the draft:
Glenn Hall (38)
Cy Denneny (140)
Toe Blake (109)
Biggest Reach of the draft:
Bobby Baun (160)
Fred Stanfield (311)
Teppo Numminen (367)
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft:- CanadiensFan selecting Frank Mahovlich and Henri Richard in back-to-back picks. I think Richard is the perfect center for Mahovlich, who with his talent his a marvelous pick after #50.
- Another marvelous back-to-back picks: Nick Metz and Joe Klukay. What's not to like about them?
Biggest blunder selection of the draft: - Alexander Ovechkin and Sidney Crosby on the same line on a NHL team would be too good to be true. Ovechkin and Crosby together on a All-Time Draft scoring line team isn't something to write home about.
- Alex Kovalev on a 2nd line in a All-Time Draft
A Player finally getting respect in the draft:Mickey Mackay at 181 his still too low, but he keep climbing up. Bernie Morris (454), Harry Hyland (397), Blair Russell (437)
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft: Babe Pratt (195) is definitely the first players I think of. Everytime he was taken in the 120's-130's it make me cringe. Just inside the top-200 is about where he should be taken. Grant Fuhr (164) would be second on that list
A player you've discovered in this draft:I can't name only one, and for that section only, I will have to name some of my own:
Mickey Mackay: Tremendous all-around talent, the more I read and analysed him, the more shocked I was at his overall career. How much I underrated him was unbelievable.
Lloyd Cook: I knew his name, but never went into his career details. Cook was a phenomenal offensive talent. One of the best offensive defenseman from the first 40 years of hockey. He was rough and tough also. He probably never was a Raymond Bourque defensively, but receiving many PCHA 1st All-Star berth and numerous retro Norris tells me he was not Phil Housley defensively. I'm very happy to have him as my 5th D and wouldn't be out of place on a top-4.
Tommy Dunderdale: Another one of my own. He could do it all. Was a great scorer, good passer, was tough. Skated well. 6-Time PCHA first all-star team on a league with tremendous center like Mackay, Foyston, Fredrickson.
Most underrated player taken: Alf Smith. His all-around abilities are incredible. You can put him on any line, either on the left or right side, and he will be effective.
Most overrated player taken: I know I took him once in a previous draft (even sooner!), but Art Ross (175) his no better than Lester Patrick (275), Si Griffis (267) or even Frank Patrick (381)
Favourite line of the draft: I have a few:
Toe Blake - Mario Lemieux - Jari Kurri
Jack Walker - Phil Watson - Ron Ellis
Yvon Lambert - Doug Risebrough - Mario Tremblay (Always wanted to reunite them since my first ATD)
Best assembled line of the draft:
Brendan Shanahan - Max Bentley - Didier Pitre
Cy Denneny - Joe Malone - Hooley Smith
Sid Smith - Joe Sakic - Andy Bathgate
Worst assembled line of the draft:
- Pavel Datsyuk - Howie Morenz - Larry Aurie. Actually I don't mind the Morenz-Aurie duo, but Datsyuk is very much out of place on this line
- Gainey - MacKay - Darragh. Move up Mackay with Bentley and Jagr on that first line, and you might have one of my favourite line of the draft.
Favourite pairing of defensemen:
Denis Potvin-Marcel Pronovost
Serge Savard - Harry Cameron
Red Kelly - Fern Flaman
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen:
Ebbie Goodfellow - Art Ross
Pierre Pilote - Georges Boucher
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals:
Spitfire Detroit Red Wings. Other than a Detroit matchup, I think the Detroit Red Wings are the best assemble team in the draft. It's not that they don't any weak areas, they only have strong points.
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals:
Spitfire Detroit Red Wings, because they are the best team of his conference
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft: I cannot tell, it's about my next selection!
Best/Worst selection by round:
1st round; Dominik Hasek/Bobby Clarke
2nd round; Terry Sawchuk/Bernard Parent
3rd round; Joe Malone/Mark Howe
4th round; Toe Blake/Doug Gilmour
5th round; Cy Denneny/Alexander Ovechkin
6th round; Jean Ratelle / Bobby Baun
7th round; Harry Cameron/ Zdeno Chara
8th round; Didier Pitre / Vsevolod Bobrov
9th round; Ed Litzenberger / Evgeni Malkin
10th round; Paul Thompson / Barclay Plager
11th round; Gordie Drillon / Dale Hunter
12th round; Jack Walker / Fred Stanfield
13rd round; Alf Smith / Bill Barilko
14th round; Georges Vezina/Teppo Numminen
15th round; Frank Fredrickson/Jim Peters
16th round; Cooney Weiland/Alexei Kovalev
17th round; Bernie Morris/ Curtis Joseph
18th round; Hugh Lehman / Kris Draper
19th round; Marian Hossa / Tiger Williams
20th round; Dick Irvin Sr. / Weldy Young
21st round; Georges Hay / Stu Barnes
22nd round; Tommy Smith / Doug Barkley
23rd round;
24th round;

 

[God Bless Canada]

The more I'm involved in these things, the more I realize that the idea of picking a guy too soon is overrated. Yes, there are obvious ones (Bobby Baun is not a sixth round-calibre player in the ATD). But with up to 55 selections between picks, sometimes you have to pick a guy earlier than you would have liked to get a player who you feel best-suits a specific role. I'm more concerned with putting a guy in a role that is a reach. Two examples in this draft are Dale Hunter and Alex Kovalev.

I love Dale Hunter. If you're looking for a gritty fourth line with skill, Hunter's the centre best-suited to that role in the draft. (Okay, Bobby Clarke would be the guy best-suited to that role, but Clarke on the fourth line is an utter waste). Hunter has one season with more than a point-per-game. That's fine for a guy who played in the 30s, but for a guy who played post-expansion, you need more than one point-per-game season if you're going to play second line, let alone centre the second line.

As for Kovalev, he lacks the intensity, the consistency and the work ethic of an ATD player. He's a virtual non-factor when the puck isn't on his stick. And he doesn't produce enough on a consistent basis to be an ATD player.

 

[VanIslander]

As for Kovalev, he lacks the intensity, the consistency and the work ethic of an ATD player. He's a virtual non-factor when the puck isn't on his stick. And he doesn't produce enough on a consistent basis to be an ATD player.

I disagree. He is a 12th/13th forward in an all-time context, as 95 NHL playoff points in 112 postseason games is impact enough when it matters most to show he can produce as a substitute.

He'd be ideal as a sub on a team that has an injury-prone right winger, like 5-year-only excellent Kerr. Or as a sub on some fourth line when secondary scoring is needed in a series and the coach looks to the press box to provide.

 

[Nalyd Psycho]

Worst assembled line of the draft:
- Gainey - MacKay - Darragh. Move up Mackay with Bentley and Jagr on that first line, and you might have one of my favourite line of the draft.

Most puzzling pairing of defensemen: Scott Stevens-Cyclone Taylor

Huh. My favourite part of my team is that five man unit. Those five players will match up against every top line except the Edmonton Oilers. (I'd rather have Sloan and Foote vs Lindsay.)

 

[pappyline]

How is a 22nd round pick the 'blunder of the draft'? I mean, I guess if he's that bad, I could use another pick on another #6- there are lots of them. I just don't see how Barkley will have that much of an impact on a team from the bottom pairing.

Barkley was an excellent pick for the 22nd round. He would go much higher if it wasn't for his injury shortened career. A original 6 Dman who was very physical & a goal scorer.

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

(I didn't included any of my selection, although they should be all over the place in the ''best'' section )

Biggest Steal of the draft:
Glenn Hall (38)
Cy Denneny (140)
Toe Blake (109)
Biggest Reach of the draft:
Bobby Baun (160)
Fred Stanfield (311)
Teppo Numminen (367)
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft:- CanadiensFan selecting Frank Mahovlich and Henri Richard in back-to-back picks. I think Richard is the perfect center for Mahovlich, who with his talent his a marvelous pick after #50.
- Another marvelous back-to-back picks: Nick Metz and Joe Klukay. What's not to like about them?
Biggest blunder selection of the draft: - Alexander Ovechkin and Sidney Crosby on the same line on a NHL team would be too good to be true. Ovechkin and Crosby together on a All-Time Draft scoring line team isn't something to write home about.
- Alex Kovalev on a 2nd line in a All-Time Draft
A Player finally getting respect in the draft:Mickey Mackay at 181 his still too low, but he keep climbing up. Bernie Morris (454), Harry Hyland (397), Blair Russell (437)
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft: Babe Pratt (195) is definitely the first players I think of. Everytime he was taken in the 120's-130's it make me cringe. Just inside the top-200 is about where he should be taken. Grant Fuhr (164) would be second on that list
A player you've discovered in this draft:I can't name only one, and for that section only, I will have to name some of my own:
Mickey Mackay: Tremendous all-around talent, the more I read and analysed him, the more shocked I was at his overall career. How much I underrated him was unbelievable.
Lloyd Cook: I knew his name, but never went into his career details. Cook was a phenomenal offensive talent. One of the best offensive defenseman from the first 40 years of hockey. He was rough and tough also. He probably never was a Raymond Bourque defensively, but receiving many PCHA 1st All-Star berth and numerous retro Norris tells me he was not Phil Housley defensively. I'm very happy to have him as my 5th D and wouldn't be out of place on a top-4.
Tommy Dunderdale: Another one of my own. He could do it all. Was a great scorer, good passer, was tough. Skated well. 6-Time PCHA first all-star team on a league with tremendous center like Mackay, Foyston, Fredrickson.
Most underrated player taken: Alf Smith. His all-around abilities are incredible. You can put him on any line, either on the left or right side, and he will be effective.
Most overrated player taken: I know I took him once in a previous draft (even sooner!), but Art Ross (175) his no better than Lester Patrick (275), Si Griffis (267) or even Frank Patrick (381)
Favourite line of the draft: I have a few:
Toe Blake - Mario Lemieux - Jari Kurri
Jack Walker - Phil Watson - Ron Ellis
Yvon Lambert - Doug Risebrough - Mario Tremblay (Always wanted to reunite them since my first ATD)
Best assembled line of the draft:
Brendan Shanahan - Max Bentley - Didier Pitre
Cy Denneny - Joe Malone - Hooley Smith
Sid Smith - Joe Sakic - Andy Bathgate
Worst assembled line of the draft:
- Pavel Datsyuk - Howie Morenz - Larry Aurie. Actually I don't mind the Morenz-Aurie duo, but Datsyuk is very much out of place on this line
- Gainey - MacKay - Darragh. Move up Mackay with Bentley and Jagr on that first line, and you might have one of my favourite line of the draft.
Favourite pairing of defensemen:
Denis Potvin-Marcel Pronovost
Serge Savard - Harry Cameron
Red Kelly - Fern Flaman
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen:
Ebbie Goodfellow - Art Ross
Pierre Pilote - Georges Boucher
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals:
Spitfire Detroit Red Wings. Other than a Detroit matchup, I think the Detroit Red Wings are the best assemble team in the draft. It's not that they don't any weak areas, they only have strong points.
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals:
Spitfire Detroit Red Wings, because they are the best team of his conference
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft: I cannot tell, it's about my next selection!
Best/Worst selection by round:
1st round; Dominik Hasek/Bobby Clarke
2nd round; Terry Sawchuk/Bernard Parent
3rd round; Joe Malone/Mark Howe
4th round; Toe Blake/Doug Gilmour
5th round; Cy Denneny/Alexander Ovechkin
6th round; Jean Ratelle / Bobby Baun
7th round; Harry Cameron/ Zdeno Chara
8th round; Didier Pitre / Vsevolod Bobrov
9th round; Ed Litzenberger / Evgeni Malkin
10th round; Paul Thompson / Barclay Plager
11th round; Gordie Drillon / Dale Hunter
12th round; Jack Walker / Fred Stanfield
13rd round; Alf Smith / Bill Barilko
14th round; Georges Vezina/Teppo Numminen
15th round; Frank Fredrickson/Jim Peters
16th round; Cooney Weiland/Alexei Kovalev
17th round; Bernie Morris/ Curtis Joseph
18th round; Hugh Lehman / Kris Draper
19th round; Marian Hossa / Tiger Williams
20th round; Dick Irvin Sr. / Weldy Young
21st round; Georges Hay / Stu Barnes
22nd round; Tommy Smith / Doug Barkley
23rd round;
24th round;

Not sure why you think Ovechkin is a reach at where he was picked. Look around at the other LWs picked around him and it's hard to argue that he doesn't belong there. It's tough to compare stats between the two eras, but even so, it's hard to say that Ovechkin has less impressive stats than, say, a Busher Jackson or Roy Conacher. Ovechkin has almost as many points as both of them(he'll pass both next season) and has fewer games played. I know, I know, the eras are different, but even so it's very difficult to say both of those guys were statistically more impressive than Ovechkin. And even if you do, Ovechkin's trophy case is quite a bit more impressive than their's is. Art Ross, Hart, Pearson, two Richards, possibly another Hart and Pearson, surely 4 1st All-Star team selections(tying Busher, and he did it in only four seasons). To say Ovechkin's anything but a very good second line LW is probably very incorrect.

As for Crosby and Ovechkin together being a blunder selection, I also strongly disagree. I've made the case for Ovechkin, and Crosby isn't much different. A first team selection, a Hart, an Art Ross, 3 100 point seasons(out of 4, and he almost certainly would've had 4 if healthy in 07-08), and already led his team to the cup finals as a 20-year old. Crosby might not be the first rounder he's sure to become yet, but his credentials already tell us that, at the very least, he's a decent second line centerman. So, a very good second line left wing and a decent second line centerman, who I believe you assume are on the same second line, is the biggest blunder selection in this draft? Why? Surely it's not because they're together and they're active, because come on, that doesn't matter at all. Their credentials say that they fit in those areas, and they do. I've definitely seen worse second lines, worse picks and worse role selections, and I can't help but think this dislike for them has everything to do with them being active, which is completely irrelevent.

 

[Jungosi]

Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft: I liked arrbez's Metz-Klukay double selection

Biggest blunder selection of the draft: Really difficult this time. No Spezza this time.

A Player finally getting respect in the draft: Vyacheslav Starshinov. I think he could still go a lot higher though.

A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft: Usual suspects : Gainey, Fuhr, ....

A player you've discovered in this draft: That guy drafted by Champagne Wishes. Never heard of him before.

Most underrated player taken: Vyacheslav Starshinov

Most overrated player taken: Cheevers (I admit, dislike "money goalies" in general)

Favourite line of the draft: Blake - Lemieux - Kurri
Olmstead - Stewart - Howe (ELBOWS!)
Cook - Boucher - Richard
Walker - Watson - Ellis

Best assembled line of the draft: Walker - Watson - Ellis

Worst assembled line of the draft: Not the worst but Stanfield - Jarvis - Gartner confuses me.

Favourite pairing of defensemen: Gadsby - McInnis
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen: See above
Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals: Detroit Falcons
Team in the other conference you wouldn't want to meet in the finals: No team really sticks out. Bring 'em on mother****er , just bring 'em on
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft: No idea.

 

[DoMakc]

Biggest Steal of the draft: Andy Bathgate
Biggest Reach of the draft: Bobby Baun
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft: reuniting Metz-Klukay, Mortson-Thompson
Biggest blunder selection of the draft:trying to pick Bucyk in the 300ies there wasn't many and no really bad picks
A Player finally getting respect in the draft: being a noob it's tough to compare for me, but as DRW fan I was glad to see Datsyuk picked in the 11th. It's good to see some europeans like Maltsev and Martinec were picked higher than usually.
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft: Bob Gainey
A player you've discovered in this draft: As first time participant, i'd say there are many, mostly O6 players that didn't play for Montreal, Toronto, Detroit.
Most underrated player taken:
Most overrated player taken:
Favourite line of the draft:Bert Olmstead - Nels Stewart - Gordie Howe
Busher Jackson - Jacques Lemaire - Lanny McDonald
Sid Smith - Joe Sakic - Andy Bathgate
Brian Propp - Stan Mikita - Charlie Conacher
Aurel Joliat - Darryl Sittler - Guy Lafleur
Best assembled line of the draft:Brian Propp - Stan Mikita - Charlie Conacher
Worst assembled line of the draft:Wendal Clark - Dale Hunter - Ace Bailey
Favourite pairing of defensemen:Red Kelly - Fern Flaman
Chris Pronger - Nicklas Lidstrom
King Clancy - Jack Stewart

Team in the other conference it'd be interesting to meet in the finals Lada Togliatti

 

[seventieslord]

Very few mentions of Regina so far... good or bad. One mention of our first line as a favourite line, and another note from VI saying it would be an interesting matchup. Care to share why? (I agree)

Not sure why you think Ovechkin is a reach at where he was picked. Look around at the other LWs picked around him and it's hard to argue that he doesn't belong there. It's tough to compare stats between the two eras, but even so, it's hard to say that Ovechkin has less impressive stats than, say, a Busher Jackson or Roy Conacher. Ovechkin has almost as many points as both of them(he'll pass both next season) and has fewer games played. I know, I know, the eras are different, but even so it's very difficult to say both of those guys were statistically more impressive than Ovechkin. And even if you do, Ovechkin's trophy case is quite a bit more impressive than their's is. Art Ross, Hart, Pearson, two Richards, possibly another Hart and Pearson, surely 4 1st All-Star team selections(tying Busher, and he did it in only four seasons). To say Ovechkin's anything but a very good second line LW is probably very incorrect.

As for Crosby and Ovechkin together being a blunder selection, I also strongly disagree. I've made the case for Ovechkin, and Crosby isn't much different. A first team selection, a Hart, an Art Ross, 3 100 point seasons(out of 4, and he almost certainly would've had 4 if healthy in 07-08), and already led his team to the cup finals as a 20-year old. Crosby might not be the first rounder he's sure to become yet, but his credentials already tell us that, at the very least, he's a decent second line centerman. So, a very good second line left wing and a decent second line centerman, who I believe you assume are on the same second line, is the biggest blunder selection in this draft? Why? Surely it's not because they're together and they're active, because come on, that doesn't matter at all. Their credentials say that they fit in those areas, and they do. I've definitely seen worse second lines, worse picks and worse role selections, and I can't help but think this dislike for them has everything to do with them being active, which is completely irrelevent.

Crosby and Ovechkin have each put together three seasons better than anything Roy Conacher and Busher Jackson have ever put together. But, 4th-best seasons are about even. And how good are Crosby and Ovechkin's 5th-best seasons? 6th-best? 10th-best?

I'm on the fence here. I can see the arguments for both sides. I'm willing to be convinced either way. I do agree with those who said that putting the two of them together is a major risk.

 

[seventieslord]

Graduating Picks:

RW Jimmy Peters (403) - was 891 in MLD10
LW Slava Kozlov (508) - was 724 in MLD10
RW Willi Plett (556) - was 780 in MLD10
D Weldy Young (557) - was 988 in AAA10
RW Ziggy Palffy (560) - was 687 in MLD10
C Doug Weight (563) - was 675 in MLD10
C/LW Stu Barnes (568) - was 812 in MLD10
C Harry Trihey (569) - was 697 in MLD10
G Mike Liut (575) - was 684 in MLD10
C/LW Ray Getliffe (584) - was 741 in MLD10
D Kimmo Timonen (590) - was 706 in MLD10
LW Perk Galbraith (593) - was 826 in MLD10
C Kent Nilsson (594) - was 676 in MLD10
RW Milan Hejduk (601) - was 714 in MLD10
D/LW Jack Laviolette (602) - was 702 in MLD10
C/RW/D Ken Randall (606) - was 699 in MLD10
LW Ed Sandford (608) - was 708 in MLD10
RW Andy Hebenton (611) - was 796 in MLD10
Coach Mike Babcock (612) - was 792 in MLD10
Coach Bun Cook (613) - was not selected in MLD10, AAA10, AA10, or mentioned in top-1000
C Paul Ronty (614) - was 700 in MLD10
D/C/LW Goldie Prodger (615) - was 719 in MLD10
C Charlie Burns (616) - was 718 in MLD10
G John Ross Roach (617) - was 679 in MLD10
C Vladamir Zabrodsky (619) - was 777 in MLD10
D George Owen (620) - was 682 in MLD10
C/LW Camille Henry (622) - was 677 in MLD10

My ten favourite promotions - not counting those I selected in MLD10 or ATD11 (Peters, Kozlov, Weight, Nilsson, Prodger)

1. Andy Hebenton
2. Charlie Burns
3. John Ross Roach
4. Camille Henry
5. Paul Ronty
6. Vladamir Zabrodsky
7. Mike Liut
8. Ken Randall
9. Jack Laviolette
10. Bun Cook

favourites so far, that is. Camille Henry already knocked everyone from 4th-10th down a spot since I posted this in the draft thread.

 

[seventieslord]

If this looks familiar, it's because I have posted it in three threads: The Draft thread, the Chat Room, and the Draft Review.

I just wanted to take a moment to remind everyone that there will be a Minor League Draft shortly after the conclusion of this one, probably even while the finals or semis are going on.

The MLD is a wonderful idea that adds some more variety to the "same old" ATD experience. It is run exactly like the ATD except players selected in the ATD are not eligible. It is a lot "looser", with six hour time limits the whole way, and double picks after halfway through the draft so that it goes quickly with less "dead time".

I guarantee that in your MLD research you will make some "discoveries" and begin to wonder why certain players don't get selected in the main draft. (this is what it's all about!) In the ATD you tend to hear the same things about the same players, but in the MLD it feels all new, and such a wide variety of players can and do get selected.

VI and myself, are hardcore MLD GMs. We were delighted to get 12 teams together for the last one, and then 9 more for a subsequent AAA draft (the MLD of the MLD) - I speak for all of us when I say that I learned an awful lot this last time. Not only about my own players but about many of the players selected by other teams. Our hope is to see the MLD approach 30 teams this time. If the same 12 come back, only 6 more new ATD GMs join, and two co-GMs break off to make two new teams (I'm looking at my co-GM too when I say this) then we'd have 20 right there. In 50% of cases, the AAA players were as good as many MLD players and to see them all selected in one larger MLD would make for a much more diverse and interesting draft.

Just ask Hedberg, ES, and chaosrevolver, who stuck with us to the bitter end - the AA draft.

Rookie GMs - this is a great opportunity to do more research, learn what to look for in players for different roles, and to have some playoff debates. I'll also be calling on a few HOH section regulars who have expressed an interest in the draft before.

It's not signup time, but it will be in about a month. This is just a pre-invitation to plant the seed. We want to see every one of you in the MLD.

 

[Kyle McMahon]

8th round; Pitre 201st/Kovalchuk 219th

note: best/worst picks of round does NOT mean favorites or disliked players, just VALUE relative to other guys who were drafted earlier/later

When I took Kovalchuk I was looking for the best offensive player available to go on my second line. If you scan through the picks at LW made after Kovalchuk, Paul Kariya (your selection in fact) is the only one who's even in Kovalchuk's league as far as offense goes. If I hadn't taken Kovalchuk, I'd be sacraficing a lot of offense by going with a Tikkanen or Lehtinen on the second line instead. Not saying Kovalchuk is any better than those two for career value, but he's the type of player I was looking for, and as you can see my options were pretty limited by that point.

 

[MXD]

I always like this part of the draft... And being out of process made me take a more... objective view.

Biggest Steal of the draft:, Pater Stastny past 100, Claude Provost at 192, Buddy O’Connor in the 19th round (!)
Biggest Reach of the draft: Bill Barber at 127, Bobby Baun in the Top-200, Craig Hartsburg at 250.
Smartest/best strategic pick in the draft: Roy Worters. Actually, the team that would pick Cheevers around 215 and Worters right where Kyle McMahon picked him would have great goaltending for both the regular season and the playoffs. Worters is a Top-20 goalie for sure.
Biggest blunder selection of the draft: George Armstrong at 16x. There are worst picks than Armstrong as far as relative value vs. the pick (see, Rick Tocchet in the same round), but picking Armstrong some 25 picks before Claude Provost is just wrong, considering both guys will likely have the same role and Provost is better than Armstrong at everything except team capitaincy. And it’s even worst when you look with who Armstrong will be playing – Ralph Backstrom. Oooooppps. Selecting Kimmo Timmonen is also blunderesque.
A Player finally getting respect in the draft: Roy Worters (at least, it’s getting there). Odie Cleghorn. Glen Harmon.
A player always taken too high, finally getting picked where he should in the draft: Grant Fuhr. At least, he’s much closer to where he belongs.
A player you've discovered in this draft: Weldy Young, sortof.
Most underrated player taken: Taffy Abel (He has some weaknesses, but he really shouldn’t go 300 picks after Craig Ludwig).
Most overrated player taken: Dale Hunter, most overrated player since ATD 1, especially since I've noticed that he'll be used as a 2nd center. I'll name a player I would use at 2nd line C instead of Hunter : Cooney Weiland, picked some 150 picks later. Bernie Federko being used as something else than an offensive 3rd line C makes me cringe as well – for the record, I view Federko as the 2nd worst HHOF induction modern-day induction. Don Cherry shouldn't be an ATD coach, simple as that. There are also, at the very least, two contemporaries I would have picked ahead of Percy Galbraith (mainly because Galbraith’s offensive game is pretty much inexistent), even though Galbraith definitely deserves to be in the main draft. Actually, only one contemporary, as I thought Mantha was picked after Galbraith. Both are Wingers/D. I don’t think Galbraith is overrated, I just really wanted to say a word about what seems to me be the UFOesque pick of the draft. Either way, both of them would make nice winger/D “defensive†spare.
Favourite line of the draft: The Elbows Line
Best assembled line of the draft:
Worst assembled line of the draft:
Favourite pairing of defensemen: I really, really like the Taylor-Stevens pair. Hitchman-Shore and Thomson-Mortson are gold, as well.
Most puzzling pairing of defensemen: Boucher/Pilote. It’s a great first pairing, no doubt about it, it’s just that their sum seems lower than the total of their parts.
A funny/dramatic story (related to the ATD) you've learned about since the start of the draft: EB asked me something, and I had to do so research before giving an opinion – I think it was about Marty Pavelich. That’s when I learned there was a line in Detroit named the Reproduction Line (which, by the way, was made of Metro Prystai, Gaye Stewart, and somebody I cannot name yet).
Best/Worst selection by round:
1st round; : Hasek, Trottier/Brodeur, Messier
2nd round; : Schmidt, Esposito/Clapper
3rd round : Malone and Bathgate/Lach
4th round; : N.Stewart, C.Gardiner, Stastny / Gilmour
5th round; : D.Bentley, Busher Jackson/Barber, Rob Blake, B. Seibert. (Depends on how he's used. As a D-Men, he's no better than Herb Gardiner, that gets picked much, much later. Shouldn't be picked before Hooley Smith under any, any circumstances)
6th round; : K. Reardon/ Baun
7th round; : Provost/Tocchet. HM to aforementioned George Armstrong pick.
8th round; : Pitre / Federko
9th round; : Hainsworth / Malkin
10th round; P. Thompson, Martinec/Plager
11th round; T. Thompson/ Dale Hunter
12th round; Too many of them/None (really)
13rd round; Irvin Sr./Cherry
14th round; Vézina/Burrows
15th round; Vachon/Schneider
16th round; Bullet Joe Simpson/Duane Sutter. HM to Alex Kovalev (it’s really about use)
17th round; Alex Connell/???
18th round; ?????/Meagher
19th round; O’Connor/Magnussen
20th round; Viktor Kuzkin, Bernie Nicholls/Ian Turnbull
21st round; Dave Kerr/Ray Getliffe
22nd round; Tommie Smith, Jacques Demers/Kimmo Timmonen
23rd round; The guy with the funny name that ranks t-4 in all-time playoffs SHG(and the best non-oiler), Kunnhackl/Paul MacLean
24th round; Taffy Abel, Wilf Paiement/Claude Ruel as a coach (at least, when picking a coach, I would pick a coach that actually likes to… well, coach?). No qualms with Ruel pick as an ASS coach, may jut be the best “pure†associate coach of the draft.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Let me get this straight, MXD: you're telling me that the only guy, Clapper, who can play in any role in the draft (any forward line, any defence pairing) is a bad second round pick? Yikes.

Clapper can be a scoring line winger. He can be a two-way line winger. He can be a physical line winger. He can be an offensive defenceman, a defensive defenceman, a physical defenceman. He can log mbig minutes on top special teams units. He's one of the best leaders in the draft.

He's far from the worst pick in the second round.