Around the NHL part 5: I think Rocky comes back from retirement in this one

[DaveG]

continue from here:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1146235&page=41

Click to read more...

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I'll post my original O'Reilly trade proposal here for discussion:

To Avs:

D Jamie McBain
LW Jussi Jokinen
C Jeremy Welsh (prospect)
2nd Round Pick 2013 (1st if bidding war)

To Canes:

D Ryan Wilson
C Ryan O'Reilly

If you haven't heard already, contract negotiations have broken down between O'Reilly and the Avs, and they're now exploring trade options. Basically the prime example of an asset-for-asset trade. Does two things for both teams:

1. Canes upgrade defense and third line center for the next three years, at least.
2. Gives the Avs players that can play and help now, as well as strong future assets.

A second extension of this trade could also help us get one of their excess defensemen, perhaps Shane O'Brien and his 2 years/$2M per left, for a decently cheap price. Perhaps LaRose for O'Brien would benefit both teams.

 

[dammit100]

I don't hate that deal, but I don't love it. Primarily b/c we don't know how much $$ O'Reilly truly wants. If salary were a wash in that deal, I'd be alright with it.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I'd rather save our assets till the trade deadline, see who becomes available then.

 

[Beardy*]

I'll post my original O'Reilly trade proposal here for discussion:

To Avs:

D Jamie McBain
LW Jussi Jokinen
C Jeremy Welsh (prospect)
2nd Round Pick 2013 (1st if bidding war)

To Canes:

D Ryan Wilson
C Ryan O'Reilly

If you haven't heard already, contract negotiations have broken down between O'Reilly and the Avs, and they're now exploring trade options. Basically the prime example of an asset-for-asset trade. Does two things for both teams:

1. Canes upgrade defense and third line center for the next three years, at least.
2. Gives the Avs players that can play and help now, as well as strong future assets.

A second extension of this trade could also help us get one of their excess defensemen, perhaps Shane O'Brien and his 2 years/$2M per left, for a decently cheap price. Perhaps LaRose for O'Brien would benefit both teams.

I'm leery about trading McBain right now, unless we can get a top pairing D-man back.

As much crap as he takes on here, he's actually playing on the pairing thats keeping the puck out of the net the most while playing the most minutes a night. I'm really not sure trading him will better us at all right now, especially if we don't get a very good d-man in return.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I don't hate that deal, but I don't love it. Primarily b/c we don't know how much $$ O'Reilly truly wants. If salary were a wash in that deal, I'd be alright with it.

Well, if the reports are correct, the Av's are offering about $3.5M / year and he is asking $5M per year. I think it's safe to assume he wants somewhere between 4-5M / year.

 

[tomdundo]

I highly doubt ROR would want to come here and play third line center. If he were to come here, I figure that he would take over at 2C, and one of the Staals would become a wing. Most likely, as of now with how the first line is playing, we'd get Skinner-O'Reilly-Jordan.

If that happens, though...we're out a 3C unless we play Dwyer there.

Tlusty-Eric-Semin
Skinner-ROR-Jordan
Bowman-Dwyer/?-LaRose/Dwyer
Nodl-Brent-Wallace

But that completely ruins the depth of the bottom six while Ruutu's out. At that time, shift the lines for balance.

The other option in this hypothetical situation is to spread the talent around so that ROR has capable wingers to suit his more offensively-skilled role that he developed into last year.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

According to Pens fans, Jordan has been tried on wing a number of times and it hasn't worked. Maybe ROR can play wing? Serious question for the board. If trading for O'Reilly meant not signing Semin to an extension, would you still be for it?

The Canes have about $9M in additional Salary next year just in raises to Staals, Skinner, Ruutu, Gleason, etc... Just can't see Karmanos spending that much to allow them to sign O'Reilly, Semin and upgrade on defense.

 

[dammit100]

No way would I take ROR over Semin. I honestly would be in favor of buying out Ruutu's contract and use that $4.5MM for better 3rd line depth

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I highly doubt ROR would want to come here and play third line center. If he were to come here, I figure that he would take over at 2C, and one of the Staals would become a wing. Most likely, as of now with how the first line is playing, we'd get Skinner-O'Reilly-Jordan.

If that happens, though...we're out a 3C unless we play Dwyer there.

Tlusty-Eric-Semin
Skinner-ROR-Jordan
Bowman-Dwyer/?-LaRose/Dwyer
Nodl-Brent-Wallace

But that completely ruins the depth of the bottom six while Ruutu's out. At that time, shift the lines for balance.

The other option in this hypothetical situation is to spread the talent around so that ROR has capable wingers to suit his more offensively-skilled role that he developed into last year.

But the whole point in acquiring O'Reilly is to upgrade the third line, to have depth across all three lines. A healthy Ruutu would help us have a third line of Ruutu - O'Reilly - Bowman/LaRose, exactly the kind of third line that helps teams become Cup contenders.

 

[tomdundo]

But the whole point in acquiring O'Reilly is to upgrade the third line, to have depth across all three lines. A healthy Ruutu would help us have a third line of Ruutu - O'Reilly - Bowman/LaRose, exactly the kind of third line that helps teams become Cup contenders.

I'm not in any way saying that I would want to diminish the bottom-6. I would think he'd be opposed to being a 3rd line guy again behind the Staals after being on what was basically the top line for the Avalanche.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

But the whole point in acquiring O'Reilly is to upgrade the third line, to have depth across all three lines. A healthy Ruutu would help us have a third line of Ruutu - O'Reilly - Bowman/LaRose, exactly the kind of third line that helps teams become Cup contenders.

The problem I see is how to afford paying guys $4-5M to play on the 3rd line? Next year, the Canes projected cap is $50.5M (which is very close to the actual $$ as well) with only 15 players signed. If you lose Jokinen and McBain in the trade proposal above, it drops to about $46M with 13 players signed.

Add O'Reilly at $5M and Semin at $6M and you are now at $57M with only 15 players. Still need 3 defensemen MINIMUM to replace Corvo (UFA), Sanguinetti (RFA) and McBain (traded). Still need to sign 3 forwards (since you are losing Jokinen-trade, LaRose-UFA, Brent - UFA, Wallace-UFA, Nodl-RFA) and a back-up goalie.

Can't see Carolina spending like that.

 

[Lazyking]

Why can't we tell ROR that he'll get PP time and PK time if he's so good defensively.. Not only that but with 3 lines of depth... he can expect plenty of mins?

The only drawback of playing third line would be the talent around him.. if he wants 5 mil, he's not gonna have much first line talent around him because most teams have first line centers..

The problem I see is how to afford paying guys $4-5M to play on the 3rd line? Next year, the Canes projected cap is $50.5M (which is very close to the actual $$ as well) with only 15 players signed. If you lose Jokinen and McBain in the trade proposal above, it drops to about $46M with 13 players signed.

Add O'Reilly at $5M and Semin at $6M and you are now at $57M with only 15 players. Still need 3 defensemen MINIMUM to replace Corvo (UFA), Sanguinetti (RFA) and McBain (traded). Still need to sign 3 forwards (since you are losing Jokinen-trade, LaRose-UFA, Brent - UFA, Wallace-UFA, Nodl-RFA) and a back-up goalie.

Can't see Carolina spending like that.

I think that the money issue is dependent on how far we go in the playoffs/ make it. I mean if your the Canes and you make the playoffs, that equals more $$ and also shows you that you'll need a guy like Semin to stay on that level or spend more to even get further.

 

[w e l o s t b o y s]

Frattin out a week with knee injury. Flare-up of MCL issues requires procedure

 

[Lazyking]

Damn I was just gonna try to pick up Frattin.

 

[w e l o s t b o y s]

AWard's sweet dance moves

 

[Unsustainable]

Buy out Ruutu and sign a true 3c.

Find a legitimate top 4 Defensive D.

 

[tomdundo]

Buy out Ruutu and sign a true 3c.

Find a legitimate top 4 Defensive D.

You posted that right after a video with Gritty Veteran AWardo in it. Top 4 defenseman found.

 

[My Special Purpose]

I just don't think we need to be trading for another forward right now. If we're flipping any of our assets, it's simply got to be for a 20-minute-a-night d-man. I love Ryan O'Reilly's game, but we simply have bigger needs.

Of course, I think I made this same post in 2006 and we added two forwards (Recchi, Weight) and look how that turned out.

 

[MD]

I'm on my phone right now so I won't be able to get the link but I'm pretty sure I remember PK saying recently that he is willing to spend to the cap if he feels it will make the difference.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/01/19/2618287/owner-peter-karmanos-canes-a-stanley.html

 

[DaveG]

I just don't think we need to be trading for another forward right now. If we're flipping any of our assets, it's simply got to be for a 20-minute-a-night d-man. I love Ryan O'Reilly's game, but we simply have bigger needs.

Of course, I think I made this same post in 2006 and we added two forwards (Recchi, Weight) and look how that turned out.

I'm onboard with this right now, or at least not spending our major assets to make a move for a forward at this point. I'm OK with making a move for a #3 center to be sure, I'd just prefer our top young assets (#1 pick, #2 pick, Dalpe, Rask, Murphy, Bowman, Pither ) not be involved in a trade for one.

Another top 4 dman that can help short and long term is another matter entirely. I'd be fine with giving up one of those players and a pick for a good one, which pick depends on which of those players it is.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I'm on my phone right now so I won't be able to get the link but I'm pretty sure I remember PK saying recently that he is willing to spend to the cap if he feels it will make the difference.

Knowing the history of this team, it's not that PK or JR won't spend, it's that they won't spend it if the makeup of the team doesn't appear to be as competitive as they want it to be. In that view, I think a core of the two Staals, Skinner, Semin, Pitkanen and Faulk is solid enough that you can build on it with the right trades. A very "Weight/Recchi" kind of asset for this team may be Mike Ribeiro. Expiring contract, toiling on a ****** team, a little expensive for a rental (minimum cost would be a late 1st), but great if you want more short-term top-6 depth. O'Reilly, on the other hand, is a little riskier, more of a long-term investment.

 

[La Huracanista]

I'll post my original O'Reilly trade proposal here for discussion:

To Avs:

D Jamie McBain
LW Jussi Jokinen
C Jeremy Welsh (prospect)
2nd Round Pick 2013 (1st if bidding war)

To Canes:

D Ryan Wilson
C Ryan O'Reilly

If you haven't heard already, contract negotiations have broken down between O'Reilly and the Avs, and they're now exploring trade options. Basically the prime example of an asset-for-asset trade. Does two things for both teams:

1. Canes upgrade defense and third line center for the next three years, at least.
2. Gives the Avs players that can play and help now, as well as strong future assets.

A second extension of this trade could also help us get one of their excess defensemen, perhaps Shane O'Brien and his 2 years/$2M per left, for a decently cheap price. Perhaps LaRose for O'Brien would benefit both teams.

I don't think the Avs are going to want all these thrown together pieces for a first line center. Kind of an NHL 12 deal, imho. Ultimately we're getting a first line center for not that much.

Imho, if we're in on O'Reilly the only pieces we have are Murphy, Rask, and our first and second. Not sure we have the depth to give up the quality roster player that Colorado wants.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I don't think the Avs are going to want all these thrown together pieces for a first line center. Kind of an NHL 12 deal, imho. Ultimately we're getting a first line center for not that much.

Except I don't feel that the league thinks of O'Reilly as a #1 center. #2 on a decent team, maybe; but more so an amazing #3 center for a contending team. I think the Canes have more than enough pieces to acquire a player like that, especially in terms of players that can help the Avs now, which they clearly need. Also, Avs have very little leverage, and are most likely in a "sell-low" position due to the uncertain contract status here.

 

[dammit100]

not sure in which league ROR is a 1st line center