Around the NHL 2023-24 season thread - part II

[Guttersniped]

Quenneville should be coaching in the nhl. if the players didn't face any penalties and probably end up in the HOF then the coach shouldn't be left holding the bag

You’re impossibly, completely wrong here and are only showing your ignorance about the Beach case.

And Quenneville should never coach in the NHL again.

Not only was Quenneville at the meeting where upper management decided to not act after learning about the assault, he personally pushed for it. He didn’t want to lose his video coach before the playoffs.

 

[JrFischer54]

You’re impossibly, completely wrong here and are only showing your ignorance about the Beach case.

And Quenneville should never coach in the NHL again.

Not only was Quenneville at the meeting where upper management decided to not act after learning about the assault, he personally pushed for it. He didn’t want to lose his video coach before the playoffs.

i get what happened i read all about it and the players knew and taunted the player openly about it yet there is no punishment for them. if you are stupid enough to believe the "i didn't know" good for you. so until there is punishment for them then the coach should be free to coach.

 

[MadDevil]

I think Lindy may have unlocked troll Novo lol

 

[MadDevil]

 

[NJDfan86]

Quenneville should be coaching in the nhl. if the players didn't face any penalties and probably end up in the HOF then the coach shouldn't be left holding the bag

Like it or not, the players are protected by a powerful union that makes punishment more difficult.

I don’t know many people who don’t think that players should also bear consequences, but just because they can’t administer equal justice doesn’t mean there should be no justice.

Quenville deserves his punishment.

 

[NJDevs26]

It was the same shit with the Astros and their garbage cans, the players got zero punishment - just the GM and coach got suspended. And really when you’re an authority figure, the buck stops with you on team wide stuff anyway - especially with something as serious as the Beach coverup.

Plus it’s really too late to punish most of the players involved anyway, even if you wanted to and had specific evidence against them.

 

[MasterofGrond]

Even if the players deserve punishment (sure) ultimately the actual authority figures and management of the team certainly should bear more culpability than the other employees.

Because they're in a position to do something not just about their own behavior but the behavior of the other players and staff.

And I'm not quite sure how you could believe otherwise.

 

[Guttersniped]

i get what happened i read all about it and the players knew and taunted the player openly about it yet there is no punishment for them. if you are stupid enough to believe the "i didn't know" good for you. so until there is punishment for them then the coach should be free to coach.

You’re equating behavior that’s not remotely same.

For example, imagine if a company illegally pollutes a community. Imagine that their upper management knew about it and covered it up, and that made things way worse. Upper management should specifically be held responsible.

Someone who worked for them, even if they heard rumors about it, is not remotely responsible in the same way.

But you’re saying they are.

The worst parts of what happened were
1) the Blackhawks management initial cover-up right before, during and right after the incident happened in May 2010.
2) The gaslighting of Kyle Beach by the Blackhawks, particularly by their team psychologist
3) The team letting Brad Aldrich walk-off with a clean reputation, and the Hawks job on his résumé, to commit more sexual assaults.

Quenneville shares responsibility for all this, and the players don’t.

The bullying is whatever, if some players were assholes then that’s bad, but that can’t remotely compare to what management did to Beach.

Some NHL players heard some rumors, and different people heard different things, but they had nowhere to go with that information even if they wanted to.

Finally, saying Quenneville can’t be punished because something else didn’t happen to other people is a grotesquely broken view of justice.

Quenneville is personally responsible here, he got the Hawks upper management to cover up a sexual assault by his video coach of a young player who played under him.

I got nothing else to say here other than you can’t be more wrong about this even if you tried.

 

[JrFischer54]

Like it or not, the players are protected by a powerful union that makes punishment more difficult.

I don’t know many people who don’t think that players should also bear consequences, but just because they can’t administer equal justice doesn’t mean there should be no justice.

Quenville deserves his punishment.

The union isn’t the one protecting the players from punishment lol the nhl is the one protecting the players. Lol

 

[JrFischer54]

It was the same shit with the Astros and their garbage cans, the players got zero punishment - just the GM and coach got suspended. And really when you’re an authority figure, the buck stops with you on team wide stuff anyway - especially with something as serious as the Beach coverup.

Plus it’s really too late to punish most of the players involved anyway, even if you wanted to and had specific evidence against them.

Totally agree with the Astros punishment comparison. For the record I don’t want q ball to coach but if the players aren’t facing discipline then he shouldn’t either. Everyone thinks what they want

Even if the players deserve punishment (sure) ultimately the actual authority figures and management of the team certainly should bear more culpability than the other employees.

Because they're in a position to do something not just about their own behavior but the behavior of the other players and staff.

And I'm not quite sure how you could believe otherwise.

Your telling me Kane towes keith don’t have positions of power in that franchise at that time? They couldn’t put an end to any of that stuff once they found out? Gone to the press? Nah they just mocked the victim and didn’t say shit until the story broke and the “I didn’t know” bs. We aren’t talking about a bunch of 13 year olds these guys are hall of fame players. They had more power in that locker room then q had

 

[JrFischer54]

You’re equating behavior that’s not remotely same.

For example, imagine if a company illegally pollutes a community. Imagine that their upper management knew about it and covered it up, and that made things way worse. Upper management should specifically be held responsible.

Someone who worked for them, even if they heard rumors about it, is not remotely responsible in the same way.

But you’re saying they are.

The worst parts of what happened were
1) the Blackhawks management initial cover-up right before, during and right after the incident happened in May 2010.
2) The gaslighting of Kyle Beach by the Blackhawks, particularly by their team psychologist
3) The team letting Brad Aldrich walk-off with a clean reputation, and the Hawks job on his résumé, to commit more sexual assaults.

Quenneville shares responsibility for all this, and the players don’t.

The bullying is whatever, if some players were assholes then that’s bad, but that can’t remotely compare to what management did to Beach.

Some NHL players heard some rumors, and different people heard different things, but they had nowhere to go with that information even if they wanted to.

Finally, saying Quenneville can’t be punished because something else didn’t happen to other people is a grotesquely broken view of justice.

Quenneville is personally responsible here, he got the Hawks upper management to cover up a sexual assault by his video coach of a young player who played under him.

I got nothing else to say here other than you can’t be more wrong about this even if you tried.

Uh ok go right on bud

 

[Guttersniped]

Your telling me Kane towes keith don’t have positions of power in that franchise at that time? They couldn’t put an end to any of that stuff once they found out? Gone to the press? Nah they just mocked the victim and didn’t say shit until the story broke and the “I didn’t know” bs. We aren’t talking about a bunch of 13 year olds these guys are hall of fame players. They had more power in that locker room then q had

Kevin Cheveldayoff was the Assistant GM and at the key meeting when management decided not to tell HR.

So Chevy had knowledge, but he wasn’t punished. Why? link

Bettman:
"I do not believe he bore any responsibility for the club's failure to act appropriately. There seems to be some confusion, and if I was not previously clear on that, I apologize, but there seems to be some confusion on the point of whether despite his lack of power, position or seniority, he should have felt free to speak up," Bettman said. "But because of his limited authority and circumstance, he left the meeting believing that this matter was going to be investigated by his bosses, and when Aldrich parted ways with the team, he thought that was what had happened."

If an Assistant GM doesn’t have enough power than players certainly don’t.


“Your telling me Kane towes keith don’t have positions of power in that franchise at that time?”

Yes, they didn’t have positions of power over people like coaches do. They weren’t in management, they were employees.

And no, players don’t have more power in the locker room than the head coach. For example Toews doesn’t decide if a player gets to play, how much ice time they get, or who they play with.

And you’re ignoring how Quenneville had enough power to get management to not report his video coach’s assault of a player to HR and instead cover it up.

That’s serious abuse of power which for some reason you don’t even care about.

“They couldn’t put an end to any of that stuff once they found out?”

“Stuff” is a little vague, you don’t seem to understand that the players only heard incomplete rumors.

“Gone to the press”
Again, you’re saying a player who heard a rumor, but wasn’t a whistleblower to the press, is the moral equivalent of someone in upper management with power who actively participated in the cover-up.

And in your fantasy scenario players are going to the press for on Beach’s behalf on their own, based on a rumor? Sorry, that’s a very unlikely thing to happen. There’s not really any real life examples of that sort of thing.

People can dislike players being shitty to Beach over the rumors, and dislike Toews mealy-mouth answers about Beach when the story broke, but your moral equivalency makes no sense.

 

[Guttersniped]

 

[Guttersniped]

lol

 

[MasterofGrond]

Caps are awful

Rooting for them to go to the natty

 

[NJDfan86]

The union isn’t the one protecting the players from punishment lol the nhl is the one protecting the players. Lol

Yes they are - why do you think the Blackhawks settled with Corey Perry after they unilaterally terminated his contract? He was fired but still got paid. The NHL can attempt to enforce standards set forth in the CBA, but those can be appealed and create precedents which is why they are cautious with player punishment.

They can negotiate clearer language and penalties around off ice incidents in the future, but that will need to be collectively bargained.

 

[NJDevs26]

And we thought our PP was bad

 

[HBK27]

What a shit take from Frank there. Should be a privilege to play professional sports for a living. Let this guy go do something else for a living instead.

You really think what Mailloux did, while certainly despicable, is worthy of a lifetime ban from the NHL?

 

[Satans Hockey]

You really think what Mailloux did, while certainly despicable, is worthy of a lifetime ban from the NHL?

Yes, but I fully admit I'm a hard ass on all of this stuff. Same goes for anything else. Dui? Domestic violence? I'd throw them all out. There is nothing that says anyone has the right to play professional sports in a private league for millions of dollars.

There's always another kid out there who did the right things and isn't a piece of shit that I'd rather see get that spot instead.

It should be treated as an extreme privilege and if you f*** up you can go do something else for a living then.

 

[My3Sons]

Yes, but I fully admit I'm a hard ass on all of this stuff. Same goes for anything else. Dui? Domestic violence? I'd throw them all out. There is nothing that says anyone has the right to play professional sports in a private league for millions of dollars.

There's always another kid out there who did the right things and isn't a piece of shit that I'd rather see get that spot instead.

It should be treated as an extreme privilege and if you f*** up you can go do something else for a living then.

Leagues have never really been great at being morality police and as you’ve noted they are private for profit entities. I’m not surprised they do as little as possible.

 

[MasterofGrond]

You really think what Mailloux did, while certainly despicable, is worthy of a lifetime ban from the NHL?

Sure, go play in Europe if you want.

I’m broadly pro rehabilitation, and recognize the impossibility of accurately judging whether he has shown sufficient remorse and growth, but I don’t think there’s a ton of evidence suggesting he has.

 

[Bleedred]

Caps are awful

Rooting for them to go to the natty

I’ve been preaching heavily how bad they are all year long.

And to top off their fluke, lucky season, they got a freebie win because the Flyers pulled their goalie in regulation because they needed a regulation win to stay alive, despite actually being eliminated several minutes earlier by Detroit sending their game to overtime.

The Capitals couldn’t have gotten a better opponent in the season finale, other than maybe Chicago or San Jose, one of the absolute bottom feeders.

Even if the Flyers lost a point before last night, maybe that game goes a different way and they beat the Capitals in overtime or a shootout and the Capitals don’t get in.

 

[tailfins]

Oof. I wonder if the Devils / Comets even offered a contract. My guess is he felt the Devils had their shot during the four years they held his rights. Still stings.

 

[Ripshot 43]

Yes, but I fully admit I'm a hard ass on all of this stuff. Same goes for anything else. Dui? Domestic violence? I'd throw them all out. There is nothing that says anyone has the right to play professional sports in a private league for millions of dollars.

There's always another kid out there who did the right things and isn't a piece of shit that I'd rather see get that spot instead.

It should be treated as an extreme privilege and if you f*** up you can go do something else for a living then.

You definitely must be an NFL fan.

 

[Satans Hockey]

You definitely must be an NFL fan.

Can't even remember the last time I watched a football game, never been a big fan and already watch enough sports between hockey and soccer.