Around the league part 2

[GoldenBearHockey]

Its weird that triggers you all the time. There are different types of fans on here... armchair GMs on one extreme and blind fan boys/girls other extreme with all points in between. To me the ones that critique the team with well reasoned arguments are like journalists from the past that used to critique government vs how mainstream media which now is an arm of the government. You dont need to be in government to critique it - same applies to armchair GMs.

Probably going to come out wrong, critiquing, is one thing, constant complaining and armchairing is another.....

Critique, Blake shouldn't have signed PLD to an 8 year deal without playing a single game,
Critique, Blake shouldn't have resigned Kopitar to a 2 year extension a full year ahead of time.

That's not what goes on, on these boards, it's just constant hammering away how only LA is giving away assets, only LA hires ex players, only LA etc, or...management doesn't know what it's doing, management needs to go because Kaliyev isn't playing, that's a good one....etc.

We started out whatever tf it was, 20-4, and yet just a constant stream of negativity, if you are going to be that negative about going 20-4, honestly what in the hell are you doing being a fan of that team? I mean honestly, this team can turn in a historic season, and there would still be fans that are negative 24 hours 7 days a week, for 8 months straight.......

 

[AbsentMojo]

Probably going to come out wrong, critiquing, is one thing, constant complaining and armchairing is another.....

Critique, Blake shouldn't have signed PLD to an 8 year deal without playing a single game,
Critique, Blake shouldn't have resigned Kopitar to a 2 year extension a full year ahead of time.

That's not what goes on, on these boards, it's just constant hammering away how only LA is giving away assets, only LA hires ex players, only LA etc, or...management doesn't know what it's doing, management needs to go because Kaliyev isn't playing, that's a good one....etc.

We started out whatever tf it was, 20-4, and yet just a constant stream of negativity, if you are going to be that negative about going 20-4, honestly what in the hell are you doing being a fan of that team? I mean honestly, this team can turn in a historic season, and there would still be fans that are negative 24 hours 7 days a week, for 8 months straight.......

Ill def give you there is some incessant complaining against the org that isnt fair (but a lot that is fair).. is it more than other boards? I dont know if it is or isnt.. so maybe its just the way fans are. But you are also on the hook for complaining about those posters - maybe to the same extent some posters are complaining about the team.. to me its equal if you choose to do that and they do their complaining on the org.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Ill def give you there is some incessant complaining against the org that isnt fair (but a lot that is fair).. is it more than other boards? I dont know if it is or isnt.. so maybe its just the way fans are. But you are also on the hook for complaining about those posters - maybe to the same extent some posters are complaining about the team.. to me its equal if you choose to do that and they do their complaining on the org.

And wait for it....that's a fair critique....the incessant infancy does tend to be irritating, so at some point, it builds up and I have enough and I call it out.....and every time I do, they whine and cry, and people who can't even see what I type, tells others to ignore it....that part is amusing as hell.

But then again, I called out someone who mocked Dubas for stating or hinting that he was going to execute his rebuild, after what LA did....so in my mind, seems like people around the league who get paid to do this crap, who know a helluva lot more, seem to think what LA has done, works, to a degree. Which leads me to the next logical step, maybe management, isn't as bad, has kind of a clue, etc.

Now if PIT turns around and trades Crosby, Malkin, Letang, and models it after EDM/BUF/DET, that would be interesting and would point that maybe they pivoted and don't agree with what LA did, because the one thing that everyone knows, this league is a copycat league.

 

[bland]

I take it that the Dubois of posters is still at his holier than thou act.

Blocking is your friend.

 

[chris kontos]

Endless circular arguing that never derails or displays objectivity.
The ignore feature is indeed helpful

 

[King'sPawn]

We started out whatever tf it was, 20-4, and yet just a constant stream of negativity, if you are going to be that negative about going 20-4, honestly what in the hell are you doing being a fan of that team? I mean honestly, this team can turn in a historic season, and there would still be fans that are negative 24 hours 7 days a week, for 8 months straight.......

Yet the Kings did worse than last season. With 5 fewer points. And 20 fewer goals and a drop in power play performance despite trading 3 players and a pick for "an upgrade" at center.

And they were 7 points out of a playoff spot. Sounds like there were some reasonable points behind the negativity despite the strong start.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yet the Kings did worse than last season. With 5 fewer points. And 20 fewer goals and a drop in power play performance despite trading 3 players and a pick for "an upgrade" at center.

And they were 7 points out of a playoff spot. Sounds like there were some reasonable points behind the negativity despite the strong start.

And Vegas was 6 points out of the playoffs, and did worse as well despite trading for Hanifin, Hertl, etc.

Sorry to be in tears at 20-4, is not REASONABLE POINTS....nowhere even close to it, as it was happening,

They were down 3% on the PP and up 9% on the PK, in the war of special teams, that's a win...

There were very little cracks at 20-4 that anyone could see, maybe..maybe..maybe the closest one, would have been quality of wins, but during that time they beat Winnipeg, Minnesota, Toronto, Vegas, Florida, Colorado, all the way up to the 7th of December, I mean there losses were against COL, CAR, and BOS....all clearly better teams....so tell me at that start, what was the REASONABLE points to be such whiny little bitches?

Also yes, 20 fewer goals scored and 42 fewer goals given up, again, net positive

 

[AbsentMojo]

But then again, I called out someone who mocked Dubas for stating or hinting that he was going to execute his rebuild, after what LA did....so in my mind, seems like people around the league who get paid to do this crap, who know a helluva lot more, seem to think what LA has done, works, to a degree. Which leads me to the next logical step, maybe management, isn't as bad, has kind of a clue, etc.

Building around former cup winners - thats not a big leap is it? Most of the shit slung toward Blake was ending the rebuild too soon not building around 8/11/32... though some did criticize keeping Kopi and/or DD, thats more a minority from what Ive read.

 

[Steve Zissou]

We haven't even played game 1 and I'm getting on the Stars bandwagon. Man that's a deep team, and it feels like this playoffs will be Harley, Johnston (with a T) and Stank's coming out party.

Feels very similar to when we added Nolan and King in 2012 // Toffoli and Pearson in 2014.

They added Tanev at the deadline for more depth on their backend.

 

[King'sPawn]

And Vegas was 6 points out of the playoffs, and did worse as well despite trading for Hanifin, Hertl, etc.

And? We didn't spend all season talking about Vegas.

Sorry to be in tears at 20-4, is not REASONABLE POINTS....nowhere even close to it, as it was happening,

Except the criticisms of roster construction turned out to be accurate. The Kings had a bad enough struggle where they almost missed the playoffs and FIRED THE COACH. You know, the one who you kept insisting knew better than everyone, and any criticism levied toward him was met with "I didn't know we had so many professional coaches" as you hand-waived every criticism?

They were down 3% on the PP and up 9% on the PK, in the war of special teams, that's a win...

You missed the point about spending multiple assets to upgrade their offense by acquiring Dubois. I know you're practiced at missing points, but try to understand the conversations you're engaging in before defaulting to calling everyone an idiot.

There were very little cracks at 20-4 that anyone could see, maybe..maybe..maybe the closest one, would have been quality of wins, but during that time they beat Winnipeg, Minnesota, Toronto, Vegas, Florida, Colorado, all the way up to the 7th of December, I mean there losses were against COL, CAR, and BOS....all clearly better teams....so tell me at that start, what was the REASONABLE points to be such whiny little bitches?

There were plenty of flaws even when the Kings had a strong start. And quality of wins is multi-factorial. Byfield was carrying the Kopitar line. PLD was disengaged emotionally through much of the season, including the streak. Fiala was moved around because there wasn't a great fit. Basically he had to be put on the Danault line because Moore was the other cog carrying the offense with his higher output of scoring. Gavrikov and Roy started to look more vulnerable towards the end of the strong start.

Clearly you are back to being unable to discuss things even when reasonable disagreement is presented. Shame. I enjoyed some of them.

 

[BigBrown]

I probably say it every year but the first round of the playoffs is so much fun. Starts tonight!

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

And? We didn't spend all season talking about Vegas.

Except the criticisms of roster construction turned out to be accurate. The Kings had a bad enough struggle where they almost missed the playoffs and FIRED THE COACH. You know, the one who you kept insisting knew better than everyone, and any criticism levied toward him was met with "I didn't know we had so many professional coaches" as you hand-waived every criticism?

You missed the point about spending multiple assets to upgrade their offense by acquiring Dubois. I know you're practiced at missing points, but try to understand the conversations you're engaging in before defaulting to calling everyone an idiot.

There were plenty of flaws even when the Kings had a strong start. And quality of wins is multi-factorial. Byfield was carrying the Kopitar line. PLD was disengaged emotionally through much of the season, including the streak. Fiala was moved around because there wasn't a great fit. Basically he had to be put on the Danault line because Moore was the other cog carrying the offense with his higher output of scoring. Gavrikov and Roy started to look more vulnerable towards the end of the strong start.

Clearly you are back to being unable to discuss things even when reasonable disagreement is presented. Shame. I enjoyed some of them.

You realize there are 32 teams in the league right? And most of the bitching that is being done is LA is the ONLY team that does XXXXXXX.....so when you bring up the fact that they were 7 points from missing the playoffs....countering it with a perceived better team was 6 points way, is kind of relevant, regardless if you were talking about them all season

The criticism of roster construction was done at a time that they were tearing the league up....again...NO RATIONAL BASIS FOR IT.....that's the point, we can look back now and have a critique about it, hell I will right now, I think they needed to add a tough meat grinder for the 4th line, 100%, but at the time they were 20-4 etc, didn't really seem necessary, did it?

Plenty of flaws and you point out that a 21 year old Byfield was driving the play on a line, not sure if that's one of them, you realize players play are not linear right? Fiala started like crap end hot, Byfield was the opposite etc, players are going to have hot spells, cold spells, the problem is, everyone hit a cold spell all together, that's the worst possible outcome, that's not a flaw, it's called sport.

Again, you can look back now and have a great debate about roster construction and the flaws of the team within that, 100%, the problem I had/have is people were doing that at 20-4, with no basis in reality, what's that saying, a broken clock is right twice a day, that's what this boils down to, people who were shitting themselves with negativity were right, because of a broken clock, not because of the reality of the situation at the time they were in.

 

[Herby]

GBH,

You are now using this "fans shouldn't judge NHL executives" line, or that fans don't know the proper way to do anything. But for years, you criticized my arguments, which more times than not was simply saying that we should do things more like other teams do. Stating facts like Kings used their AHL affiliate more heavily than any other team was met with reactions like "who cares what other teams are doing". It seems that you just don't like any criticism of the Kings management, whether its from people with their own ideas or people who want to follow the lead of the majority of NHL executives.

 

[KingsFan7824]

That was a prime Dustin Brown-esque dive by a guy on the Cup favorite.

 

[Lt Dan]

The shenanigans continue

 

[AbsentMojo]

The shenanigans continue

Enough of this shit. Im pretty sure this is on the hockey gods agenda as they convene for the pre playoff convention

 

[johnjm22]

It's a huge advantage to have a star player get injured then recover just in time for the playoffs.

Vegas will be icing a roster with a 92M cap hit.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

GBH,

You are now using this "fans shouldn't judge NHL executives" line, or that fans don't know the proper way to do anything. But for years, you criticized my arguments, which more times than not was simply saying that we should do things more like other teams do. Stating facts like Kings used their AHL affiliate more heavily than any other team was met with reactions like "who cares what other teams are doing". It seems that you just don't like any criticism of the Kings management, whether its from people with their own ideas or people who want to follow the lead of the majority of NHL executives.

Again....I don't care about Kings management.....Blake, Vachon, McMaster, Taylor, out of their what is it 65 year history, they've had 18 years where they have finished 10 games above .500 (indicative of a good year) and FOUR years where they have reached round 3 of the SCF.....out of those 18 times of 10 games over .500, 7 of them in a row between 2009-2010 and 3 in a row ( Last three years)

I want them to be competitive, they have been, the end goal is always the cup, but only one team gets that, so if you want to judge a team's success based on a 1/32 shot, knock yourself out, I am not that deluded.

Your argument about development was, we should do what other teams do, 100%, and my argument was always, prospect development is not linear, it is always based on the prospect himself.

Argument that Blake and LA has turned this into a country club, ignoring the fact that EVERY TEAM does the same thing, hires familiar faces, etc,

Criticize management all you want, but it's absolutely f***ing moronic to criticize management on ROSTER CONSTRUCTION, 25 games into the season when the team is 16-3-3....there's no REALITY BASED argument for that, none whatsoever. Player critique, sure, PLD, Fiala starting off slow etc, but management critique is f***ing stupid.

NOW, you want to have that debate, it's more than reasonable.....THEN, again, f***ing stupid, because at 16-3-3, there were almost ZERO cracks in the armour.....

 

[King'sPawn]

NOW, you want to have that debate, it's more than reasonable.....THEN, again, f***ing stupid, because at 16-3-3, there were almost ZERO cracks in the armour.....

"Look at how magnificent that Titanic is. I don't see a single crack in that fine vessel. Let's hop on board."

You can refuse to see issues all you want during the strong start, but that doesn't mean everything will be fine when the iceberg comes.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The problem is enough teams think that they'll need to take advantage of LTIR one day, so they're generally reluctant to do anything about this. Same reason they don't do anything about LTIRetirement.

And then the PA, which would have to be at least consulted with this stuff, don't like the cap anyway, so what's their incentive to make a stink? If a player has to put in retirement papers when they can no longer play with 6 years on a contract, he doesn't get all that money. If a player can get traded to a team that might win, with a guy on LTIR that will in all likelihood come back for Game 1 of the playoffs, who is going to give up that chance to win the Cup? What about all the other players on all the other teams? Well none of them got to where they are by thinking they weren't going to win, and then they might one day themselves be that guy anyway.

And since the players aren't drawing their normal NHL salary during the playoffs, how can the cap be applied during the playoffs? I get the theory in simply having to be cap compliant for any playoff game, but then rosters as a whole can be expanded come playoff time. That doesn't follow regular season rules either.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

"Look at how magnificent that Titanic is. I don't see a single crack in that fine vessel. Let's hop on board."

You can refuse to see issues all you want during the strong start, but that doesn't mean everything will be fine when the iceberg comes.

Well no shit sherlock.....no one with the power of hindsight would jump on the Titanic.....show me one f***ing person that can see the future.....I can wait.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I don't have a horse in this race but this back and forth just reminds me of this.

 

[johnjm22]

If VGK is fully healthy and finally over their Stanley Cup hangover, that Stars vs Knights series should be a banger.

 

[King'sPawn]

Well no shit sherlock.....no one with the power of hindsight would jump on the Titanic.....show me one f***ing person that can see the future.....I can wait.

You don't understand allegories, do you? I'll help.

Causes and Effects of the Rapid Sinking of the Titanic

Along with the material failures, poor design of the watertight compartments in the Titanic's lower section was a factor in the disaster.

Did Anyone Really Think the Titanic was Unsinkable?

Most reports about the Titanic before it sank focused on its size and luxury, not its safety. So did anyone really think the Titanic was unsinkable?

www.britannica.com

So even though the ship was in fact touted as “unsinkable” before it sank, it was the irony of its tragic sinking that actually brought that claim to the fore.

Someone didn't have to say "the Titanic's going to hit an iceberg and therefore is going to sink." The flaws in construction were there before disaster struck, regardless of the propaganda that the ship was virtually unsinkable.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Tough loss for the Islanders. Two boring teams playing a man’s game and they didn’t have the juice against a more talented Hurricanes team. Doesn’t give much hope for the Kings who have the same strategy and mostly a bunch of elite scrub midgets they’re counting on to pull off an upset.