Speculation: Armchair GM Thread 2021-22 V (The Undiscovered Country)

[TheHudlinator]

I'd love to imagine we could take advantage of the Leafs and move Monahan+Zad+ for Marner

Basically the inverse Dion trade

 

[Ace Rimmer]

Sutter pointed out Kylington on the second goal today. He has a lot to learn. Not sure if it’s new or he is just not getting it.

once he figured it out, they need to let him loose because they really need a good offensive dman. Andersson is not it. Neither is Hanifin.

Sutter leans on the guys he likes, particularly in the media. I actually think he likes Kylington and sees his potential.

 

[DFF]

Sutter leans on the guys he likes, particularly in the media. I actually think he likes Kylington and sees his potential.

No doubt, he already gave him more chances than the other coaches

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Sutter leans on the guys he likes, particularly in the media. I actually think he likes Kylington and sees his potential.

100%. If he didn’t think Oliver could handle it, he wouldn’t do it. He’s pulling the strings he needs because he sees something there.

If we get Kylington going and Monahan, the Flames should be decent.

 

[Volica]

I'd love to imagine we could take advantage of the Leafs and move Monahan+Zad+ for Marner

Basically the inverse Dion trade

My concern would be, how do you lock up Gaudreau for less than 10 million if you take on that Marner contract.

 

[TheHudlinator]

My concern would be, how do you lock up Gaudreau for less than 10 million if you take on that Marner contract.

Could be harder but realistically Gaudreau is going to simply point to the fact that we can't score without him anyway and he can ask for whatever he wants if we want to win.

I think the same argument would apply with Eichel too no?

 

[Volica]

Could be harder but realistically Gaudreau is going to simply point to the fact that we can't score without him anyway and he can ask for whatever he wants if we want to win.

I think the same argument would apply with Eichel too no?

Eichel is exactly 10, so you could sell the premise of taking a bit less considering he’s the franchise centre.

At the end of the day, Gaudreau will get 8.5-9.5

 

[TheHudlinator]

Eichel is exactly 10, so you could sell the premise of taking a bit less considering he’s the franchise centre.

At the end of the day, Gaudreau will get 8.5-9.5

Yes so I don't think acquiring one of the top wingers in the game is going to effect Gaudreau's contract anymore than getting Eichel

 

[Darth Vladar]

That certainly wasn't a $10M play Johnny made that let the Caps back into the game the other night. He definitely would have been the goat if the Flames hadn't won, and I don't mean the GOAT.

 

[Anglesmith]

That certainly wasn't a $10M play Johnny made that let the Caps back into the game the other night. He definitely would have been the goat if the Flames hadn't won, and I don't mean the GOAT.

I don't think anyone is advocating $10M for Gaudreau. He isn't that kind of player.

But hell, even if he was and people were, you have to realize how disingenuous and grating it is to make a post like this every time a certain player makes a mistake throughout the season.

Cheering for the players on the team is a solid option imo that we should all consider.

 

[Mazatt]

That certainly wasn't a $10M play Johnny made that let the Caps back into the game the other night. He definitely would have been the goat if the Flames hadn't won, and I don't mean the GOAT.

You mean the game where he had 2 assists? Or the back pass where Andersson absolutely handcuffed him leading to a turnover? Pointing to one play/game where 1. He was one of the bigger contributers and 2. Where the mistake wasn't squarely on his shoulders to argue that Gaudreau doesn't deserve more on his next contract just makes no sense. Do you not see how, even if it we're squarely on Gaudreau's shoulders for the turnover, he was also the cause of 2 goals for, and is the dynamo for the offense regardless of 1 turnover. Like, what is this even meant to argue.

 

[Darth Vladar]

I don't think anyone is advocating $10M for Gaudreau. He isn't that kind of player.

But hell, even if he was and people were, you have to realize how disingenuous and grating it is to make a post like this every time a certain player makes a mistake throughout the season.

Cheering for the players on the team is a solid option imo that we should all consider.

The Flames are the only team I really pay attention to, not just in hockey, but in all of sports, and I've been rooting for them for almost 20 years.

Flames players have made plenty of mistakes already, it seems like Kyller has biffed on his skates in every single game he's played, things like that are obviously just going to happen when they're playing at such a fast pace, especially early in the season. That said, the play Johnny made the other night was when the Flames were up 3-0 and in complete control of the game, and the Caps took the momentum from that goal and nearly won. Granted, they didn't, and it was an early-season, low-stakes affair, but what if it was a playoff game? This is supposed to be our star guy, playing for a new contract, and all the fantasy GM's playing with pretend money conjure these unfounded corroborations between winning and paying top-dollar. The best players aren't motivated by money, they get paid after they've proven their value. I don't think it's offside for a fan of any team to be critical of its players when they are so well compensated regardless of whether they play up to what they're being paid. Scoring is important, but the guys need to start making some better plays. I'm thrilled we have a winning record, and I was happy with the dub the other night, but I don't know whether the Flames deserved two points there.

 

[TheHudlinator]

If we can justify giving lucic 5+ million I'm more than happy to pay Gaudreau what he wants, this team is in full rebuild if he leaves.

 

[Anglesmith]

The Flames are the only team I really pay attention to, not just in hockey, but in all of sports, and I've been rooting for them for almost 20 years.

Flames players have made plenty of mistakes already, it seems like Kyller has biffed on his skates in every single game he's played, things like that are obviously just going to happen when they're playing at such a fast pace, especially early in the season. That said, the play Johnny made the other night was when the Flames were up 3-0 and in complete control of the game, and the Caps took the momentum from that goal and nearly won. Granted, they didn't, and it was an early-season, low-stakes affair, but what if it was a playoff game? This is supposed to be our star guy, playing for a new contract, and all the fantasy GM's playing with pretend money conjure these unfounded corroborations between winning and paying top-dollar. The best players aren't motivated by money, they get paid after they've proven their value. I don't think it's offside for a fan of any team to be critical of its players when they are so well compensated regardless of whether they play up to what they're being paid. Scoring is important, but the guys need to start making some better plays. I'm thrilled we have a winning record, and I was happy with the dub the other night, but I don't know whether the Flames deserved two points there.

In order to make this point, you would not only need to have insight into what Johnny wants in a contract, but you would also need to support that players who are worth that kind of money don't ever make those kinds of mistakes.

 

[Darth Vladar]

If we can justify giving lucic 5+ million I'm more than happy to pay Gaudreau what he wants, this team is in full rebuild if he leaves.

It's not like I can justify giving Looch $5M+ or Zad $3.75M for that matter, but those salaries balance themselves out in the cap when you consider the value we get from other players like Lindy, Mangi, Dube, Coleman, and even backs, and I'm not expecting the same thing out of those players as I am from a Gaudreau or an Eichel. If Tre backs the truck up for him, I just hope it will have been worth it.

 

[TheHudlinator]

It's not like I can justify giving Looch $5M+ or Zad $3.75M for that matter, but those salaries balance themselves out in the cap when you consider the value we get from other players like Lindy, Mangi, Dube, Coleman, and even backs, and I'm not expecting the same thing out of those players as I am from a Gaudreau or an Eichel. If Tre backs the truck up for him, I just hope it will have been worth it.

We won't score without Gaudreau as shown when he struggles we can't score, if you don't pay him what he wants we go back to the basement like when Iggy left. Gaudreau is worth whatever he wants because without him we aren't worth watching.

 

[Darth Vladar]

In order to make this point, you would not only need to have insight into what Johnny wants in a contract, but you would also need to support that players who are worth that kind of money don't ever make those kinds of mistakes.

You're right, I don't know whether Johnny would take less money to stay in Calgary. I hope he does.

It's not that I think players who make that kind of money don't make those type of mistakes, it's that I don't expect them to. There are a number of different ways Johnny and the Flames could have bounced back from that giveaway that led to the Caps first goal, but the team just seemed to fall flat in the last two periods. If Johnny is going to be paid like a top guy, he should be prepared to put the team on his back. Like I said, I'm just glad that it wasn't a playoff game, and that we wound up with the dub. a 3-goal lead is hard enough to come by, let alone having the opposing team erase it in a period.

 

[Darth Vladar]

We won't score without Gaudreau as shown when he struggles we can't score, if you don't pay him what he wants we go back to the basement like when Iggy left. Gaudreau is worth whatever he wants because without him we aren't worth watching.

You should know by now that I don't subscribe to the notion that paying a player $9M instead of $8M is suddenly going to motivate him to be better than we've already seen.

 

[TheHudlinator]

You should know by now that I don't subscribe to the notion that paying a player $9M instead of $8M is suddenly going to motivate him to be better than we've already seen.

Sure but only offering him 7 means you can kiss your product goodbye. How many years has Gaudreau led this team in scoring and how many did he earn the most on the team? He has earned getting "overpayed" by carrying this teams offense, I'd much rather pay a dude who has been extremely loyal and I'd argue underpaid and not have cap space to overpay a guy in ufa that's done nothing for the organization.

 

[Darth Vladar]

Sure but only offering him 7 means you can kiss your product goodbye. How many years has Gaudreau led this team in scoring and how many did he earn the most on the team? He has earned getting "overpayed" by carrying this teams offense, I'd much rather pay a dude who has been extremely loyal and I'd argue underpaid and not have cap space to overpay a guy in ufa that's done nothing for the organization.

I don't think 8 years, $60M, with $8M for the first six years and $6M for the last two is unreasonable, or even $8.5 and $7, for $65M in total. You have to remember that this contract is going to pay him for the years between 28 and 36 years old. I shudder to think what a PPG player might make in the year 2029 if we're paying a 37-year old Johnny G more than $7M. If he is looking at upwards of $9M, I'd have to consider more than just his stats and "loyalty" to determine his value. Nobody in the history of the Flames has ever made (the equivalent of) $10M in a season except Iggy the same season he led Calgary to the finals.

 

[TheHudlinator]

I don't think 8 years, $60M, with $8M for the first six years and $6M for the last two is unreasonable, or even $8.5 and $7, for $65M in total. You have to remember that this contract is going to pay him for the years between 28 and 36 years old. I shudder to think what a PPG player might make in the year 2029 if we're paying a 37-year old Johnny G more than $7M. If he is looking at upwards of $9M, I'd have to consider more than just his stats and "loyalty" to determine his value. Nobody in the history of the Flames has ever made (the equivalent of) $10M in a season except Iggy the same season he led Calgary to the finals.

And we haven't won a cup in 30+ years, might be time to reconsider how we do things like paying talent what it takes to stay here. Gaudreau already took a team friendly deal and we used the cap space on some real bums, I'd rather not be able to sign a Neal and keep Gaudreau then have the space for a Neal and no Gaudreau.

If you don't value loyalty don't expect loyalty

 

[Darth Vladar]

And we haven't won a cup in 30+ years, might be time to reconsider how we do things like paying talent what it takes to stay here. Gaudreau already took a team friendly deal and we used the cap space on some real bums, I'd rather not be able to sign a Neal and keep Gaudreau then have the space for a Neal and no Gaudreau.

If you don't value loyalty don't expect loyalty

There are a number of things that factor into why we haven't won a cup in 30 years, one of which being that there are 11 more teams in the league than there was in '88-'89. The Iggy years were the closest we have come since, and granted, the game is played a little differently now than even just a decade ago, but we saw a team with no clear-cut star forward advance to the finals last year with the Canadiens, and the only player making $10M on that roster was arguably the best goalie in the game next to Vasilevskiy.

Nobody expected Neal to shit the bed when we signed him, he'd just scored 25 goals the year before and had back-to-back finals appearances with the Preds and GKnights. His one season in Calgary is his only really legitimately terrible one, and he bounced back somewhat the next season w/ the Coil. It's true that the Flames have a spotty track record with UFAs, but a lot of it depends on what's available. When the team has a need, you have to fill it, and the Flames seldom ever seem to find the right guy at the right time. I actually had to look it up if there were ever any hits or if they were all misses, and the two best FA signings I could find were Hudler and Glencross. Eichel would be an absolutely perfect player for our lineup in an alternate universe where he wasn't one bad hit away from retirement, $10M AAV aside, but it's only because of this very predicament that he is even available, and therein lies the risk. The Real Deal may not have worked out, but he was just an FA signing. We would have to give up more for Eichel than we'd get in return, including certain intangibles, imo.

There are a few players who turn UFA at the end of the year that interest me, mostly dmen, but Hertl is one name that stands out as a player who's game would compliment Johnny's. Even with Zad and Guddy off the books next year, every penny is going to count if we plan on not just keeping Mangi, Johnny and Chucky, but continue building around them. Any Eichel deal would mean having to move salary, there's no two ways about it, but if our main three FA's were willing to take less money to win in Calgary, it could be the difference between adding a Hertl to that lineup or not.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

There are a number of things that factor into why we haven't won a cup in 30 years, one of which being that there are 11 more teams in the league than there was in '88-'89. The Iggy years were the closest we have come since, and granted, the game is played a little differently now than even just a decade ago, but we saw a team with no clear-cut star forward advance to the finals last year with the Canadiens, and the only player making $10M on that roster was arguably the best goalie in the game next to Vasilevskiy.

Nobody expected Neal to shit the bed when we signed him, he'd just scored 25 goals the year before and had back-to-back finals appearances with the Preds and GKnights. His one season in Calgary is his only really legitimately terrible one, and he bounced back somewhat the next season w/ the Coil. It's true that the Flames have a spotty track record with UFAs, but a lot of it depends on what's available. When the team has a need, you have to fill it, and the Flames seldom ever seem to find the right guy at the right time. I actually had to look it up if there were ever any hits or if they were all misses, and the two best FA signings I could find were Hudler and Glencross. Eichel would be an absolutely perfect player for our lineup in an alternate universe where he wasn't one bad hit away from retirement, $10M AAV aside, but it's only because of this very predicament that he is even available, and therein lies the risk. The Real Deal may not have worked out, but he was just an FA signing. We would have to give up more for Eichel than we'd get in return, including certain intangibles, imo.

There are a few players who turn UFA at the end of the year that interest me, mostly dmen, but Hertl is one name that stands out as a player who's game would compliment Johnny's. Even with Zad and Guddy off the books next year, every penny is going to count if we plan on not just keeping Mangi, Johnny and Chucky, but continue building around them. Any Eichel deal would mean having to move salary, there's no two ways about it, but if our main three FA's were willing to take less money to win in Calgary, it could be the difference between adding a Hertl to that lineup or not.

Plenty of people expected that, myself included.

 

[Volica]

So, no freak outs or anything, or don't quote me.
I hear this Eichel thing is f***ing really, really close.

 

[Dack]

So, no freak outs or anything, or don't quote me.
I hear this Eichel thing is f***ing really, really close.