Speculation: Armchair GM Thread - 2020-2021 II

[Mazatt]

Not saying we should rebuild but we have had way more than 1 bad game, hell i can only think of 1 game where we looked engaged for 60 minutes.

We have to stop the acceptance of shitty games by this team because "they always start slow". We don't have time to waste in a short season.

I'm not handwaiving their bad games, or suggesting that they have been good. But calling for a rebuild when the issue with the team is engagement? When that's something you can point to repeatedly being an issue with the team? And that they are .500 being unable to put together clean hockey?

The Flames top scorer from last year is out to lunch currently and the odds are he finds some way to adjust his game and be impactful before years end. Pulling the trigger on a season 14 games in is just insane

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Flames have a chance to undo #CurseoftheSpull

They MUST.

 

[TheHudlinator]

I'm not handwaiving their bad games, or suggesting that they have been good. But calling for a rebuild when the issue with the team is engagement? When that's something you can point to repeatedly being an issue with the team? And that they are .500 being unable to put together clean hockey?

The Flames top scorer from last year is out to lunch currently and the odds are he finds some way to adjust his game and be impactful before years end. Pulling the trigger on a season 14 games in is just insane

Again I specifically said I'm not on board with a rebuild but my point is it hasn't been 1 bad game but really 1 good game with a bunch of meh to down right bad games. At this point I don't know what's wrong with Chucky but if Monahan or Gaudreau f***ed around for this many games in a row where he looked more focused on starting shit after a whistle rather than playing there would be tons of people calling for trading them. I have 0 faith in Chucky finding is game, he looks like he wants to be Raffi torres more than a top line player.

I think there is rightly a ton of concern about this team. They don't look engaged, they are making the same mistakes and bad plays game after game.

I'm not saying we should rebuild but this team is in trouble right now

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Tkachuk - Lindholm pairing needs more finish.

Gaudreau line needs more speed and a better puck carrying center. Solution is simple enough.

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Monahan
Gaudreau - Bennett - Dube

 

[User1996]

Moving Monahan to the wing ain’t gonna work with Backlund and Ryan out

 

[Body Checker]

I think we are forgetting how we basically looked the same as this pre-pandemic. Really this team has been the same since after Hartley except for a few months when we were 2nd in the league which was smoke and mirrors. Treliving has really done nothing with the forward ranks in his whole time here.

 

[Mazatt]

Tkachuk - Lindholm pairing needs more finish.

Gaudreau line needs more speed and a better puck carrying center. Solution is simple enough.

Tkachuk - Lindholm - Monahan
Gaudreau - Bennett - Dube

Tkachuk - Lindholm needs Tkachuk to show up so that Lindholm isn't carrying the lions share of responsibilities on that line. If Backlund is out I'd prefer them moving Mangiapane into Tkachuks's spot, or at least onto that line and then they could re-try last years chemistry with Lucic - Bennett - Dube. Of the current people playing right wing on the roster, Mangiapane is the only one who's looking like a top 6er rn. Putting Dube into the top 6 and expecting him to play big minutes feels like a miss-step from Ward given how his effectiveness in the past was in short spurts with high energy that you'd expect from a 3rd line scoring option.

If Backlund is out I also think you can't mess with the centre depth, you have to just work around it.

Monahan - Lindholm - Bennett - Froese is what we got (barring Gawdin coming in but that's just for Froese) and moving Bennett up and Monahan to the wing makes our lack of healthy centres that much more apparent.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Tkachuk
Mangiapane - Lindholm - Leivo
Lucic - Bennett - Dube
Nordstrom - Froese - Rinaldo

It may seem counter-intuitive to play Tkachuk higher in the lineup but that's exactly how we got production from Lucic. Putting him with more high skilled players hopefully allows him to simplify his game, and not try and do fancy moves that get shut down by the opposition. Mangiapane - Lindholm - Leivo all have strength along the boards, all can shoot, and all of them have found ways to get open. We already know what Lucic - Bennett - Dube does, and then you get Rinaldo in to bring in some energy that was sorely lacking. Also find a way to get Kylington in because something ain't right there and having a quicker breakout seems imperative after alst night. And even then, any lineup changes are going to hinge on the Flames being able to pass hard and not flub zone exits as hard as they did last night.

 

[lightstorm]

Not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere on this board but if Friedman is right, I wouldnt be surprised if Chucky has checked out. He wants to fire up this tepid team only to be told thats not how this country club operates.

"The Flames were feisty in their two most recent games, wins over Montreal and the Jets. That’s not a coincidence. When Mathew Tkachuk exploded at the end of last Tuesday’s loss to Toronto, it wasn’t about
Jake Muzzin flipping the puck at him. If you dish it out, you’ve got to take it. I think he was upset that no one joined him in the scrum Calgary held a players-only meeting last Friday, and it sounds like he conveyed that message. It was received, although some comments were made to him that it can’t be a riot every night. Get your feelings in the open, get it sorted out, and play. The results speak for themselves."

31 Thoughts: Why Sabres postponements are cause for concern

 

[Sparky93]

I think we have to start considering the possibility that this core might be rotten. The sheer number of coaches that they've quit on should be warning sign enough but they're undeniably one of the laziest groups, in the entire NHL, as well. I'm seriously starting to contemplate a rebuild, not a scorched earth but a heavy retool. I'm thinking Johnny, Monahan and Bennett out, with possibly Backlund at the draft, depending on the returns. Gio will be gone after next year. That leaves us with Tkachuk, Lindy, Mangi, Dube, Hanifin, Ras, and Valimaki to build around, with Tanev as captain. We already have Pelletier and Zary looking to have potential. The combined returns and a couple of high picks during development, should make for a fairly quick turnaround.

 

[Mobiandi]

The answer is rather simple with Tkachuk:

- Play him with Backlund again because he manages to raise everyone's game. Deal with the aftermath of whatever happens to Lucic later.
or
- Scratch him and get him to stop feeling sorry for his bruised ego and put him back in with Lindholm

- Trade him if none of the above works because it's not like he's been much of a playoff performer anyway

 

[User1996]

Not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere on this board but if Friedman is right, I wouldnt be surprised if Chucky has checked out. He wants to fire up this tepid team only to be told thats not how this country club operates.

"The Flames were feisty in their two most recent games, wins over Montreal and the Jets. That’s not a coincidence. When Mathew Tkachuk exploded at the end of last Tuesday’s loss to Toronto, it wasn’t about
Jake Muzzin flipping the puck at him. If you dish it out, you’ve got to take it. I think he was upset that no one joined him in the scrum Calgary held a players-only meeting last Friday, and it sounds like he conveyed that message. It was received, although some comments were made to him that it can’t be a riot every night. Get your feelings in the open, get it sorted out, and play. The results speak for themselves."

31 Thoughts: Why Sabres postponements are cause for concern

I would be done with Tkachuk too, honestly. Johnny was on Spittin’ Chiclets and said that literally nobody on the ice noticed the incident and made it sound like Tkachuk acted like a baby afterwards in the room - no one even knew what he was upset about until the players meeting.

Maybe if he were playing well I’d be more inclined to take his side, but I don’t know many bottom 6er’s that ask their teammates to protect them in their nightly temper tantrums.

He has the ability to fire his team up with his play, but he’s made a choice that he’s not going to do that. He doesn’t need the other garbage.

 

[Sparky93]

Not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere on this board but if Friedman is right, I wouldnt be surprised if Chucky has checked out. He wants to fire up this tepid team only to be told thats not how this country club operates.

"The Flames were feisty in their two most recent games, wins over Montreal and the Jets. That’s not a coincidence. When Mathew Tkachuk exploded at the end of last Tuesday’s loss to Toronto, it wasn’t about
Jake Muzzin flipping the puck at him. If you dish it out, you’ve got to take it. I think he was upset that no one joined him in the scrum Calgary held a players-only meeting last Friday, and it sounds like he conveyed that message. It was received, although some comments were made to him that it can’t be a riot every night. Get your feelings in the open, get it sorted out, and play. The results speak for themselves."

31 Thoughts: Why Sabres postponements are cause for concern

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a rift in the room, possibly heightened by bringing in two high end Vancouver players, that most likely hated Tkachuk.

 

[Mazatt]

He has the ability to fire his team up with his play, but he’s made a choice that he’s not going to do that. He doesn’t need the other garbage.

This might be the biggest thing for Tkachuk with me. He has the ability to make big hits or smart plays, but right now he looks slow and is going for chincy "dirty but not illegal" hits that don't help the team, galvanize the other team, and make him a target which simply doesn't mesh well with him not being able to handle the puck in the slightest.

 

[Body Checker]

Tkachuk will have a big year next year as it’s a contract year.

 

[DFF]

I think we are forgetting how we basically looked the same as this pre-pandemic. Really this team has been the same since after Hartley except for a few months when we were 2nd in the league which was smoke and mirrors. Treliving has really done nothing with the forward ranks in his whole time here.

this

It’s not 1 game, it’s not this season, it’s not even this year, this team has floundered with this core since Johnny’s and Monaghan’s first years. Now their captain is cooked and a clueless coach. It’s over. Don’t take a genius to figure that out.

 

[Sparky93]

this

It’s not 1 game, it’s not this season, it’s not even this year, this team has floundered with this core since Johnny’s and Monaghan’s first years. Now their captain is cooked and a clueless coach. It’s over. Don’t take a genius to figure that out.

You really don't think the problem has been identified already? I would not be surprised, at all, if the ownership group has already shot down a major move, while in the midst of a new arena build and a pandemic. I mean the fact that Treliving went with such an inexperienced, "player empowering", "Bob Ross approach" coach, after 3 much more hard line approach coaches, tells me that he recognizes things aren't working. The Ward hiring doesn't exactly scream win now. I'd say its more to prove a point that the players do what they want and won't respond to anyone, regardless of their approach. I mean Tre is smart enough to realize that failure puts him on the chopping block but proving he was right, gives him a much higher chance for survival.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Imagine wanting to trade Tkachuk after a bad 14 game stretch. Sure he’s been the literal heart and soul of our team over the previous two seasons, and lead our team in scoring the previous season, and would be a nightmare to play against for the rest of his career, but this 14 game stretch of hockey in one of the most unprecedented seasons hockey has seen is a game changer.

 

[Yepthatsme]

Also for everyone turning on Monahan after his massive bounce back to start the season I present ‘the Bennett effect’ on his centers.
Monahan:
-with Mangiapane or Simon
52% SF, 3GF 1GA
Monahan looks like he has taken a massive step this year on top of his bounce back.
-with Bennet
38% SF, 3 GF 1GA
Monahan looks passive and isn’t standing out anymore

Backlund
-with literally anybody else
69% SF, 8GF 2 GA
4 points in last 4 games with Lucic/Mangiapane, looks like the Backlund of old
-with Bennett
47% SF, 1GF 1GA
3 points in the 8 game stretch they played together, people were calling Backlund overplayed and a problem, looked noticeably bad while watching

 

[DFF]

You really don't think the problem has been identified already? I would not be surprised, at all, if the ownership group has already shot down a major move, while in the midst of a new arena build and a pandemic. I mean the fact that Treliving went with such an inexperienced, "player empowering", "Bob Ross approach" coach, after 3 much more hard line approach coaches, tells me that he recognizes things aren't working. The Ward hiring doesn't exactly scream win now. I'd say its more to prove a point that the players do what they want and won't respond to anyone, regardless of their approach. I mean Tre is smart enough to realize that failure puts him on the chopping block but proving he was right, gives him a much higher chance for survival.

They went and got the #1 goalie and a vet dman

I am sure they think they got a winner

 

[User1996]

Imagine wanting to trade Tkachuk after a bad 14 game stretch. Sure he’s been the literal heart and soul of our team over the previous two seasons, and lead our team in scoring the previous season, and would be a nightmare to play against for the rest of his career, but this 14 game stretch of hockey in one of the most unprecedented seasons hockey has seen is a game changer.

Who wants to trade Tkachuk?

 

[Yepthatsme]

Who wants to trade Tkachuk?

I said we should trade Tkachuk for Stutzle in the off-season when it might have actually happened. You guys called me a lunatic

The answer is rather simple with Tkachuk:

- Play him with Backlund again because he manages to raise everyone's game. Deal with the aftermath of whatever happens to Lucic later.
or
- Scratch him and get him to stop feeling sorry for his bruised ego and put him back in with Lindholm

- Trade him if none of the above works because it's not like he's been much of a playoff performer anyway

Only two people actually said it, but I was also addressing the vitriol everyone else in the last page seems to currently have towards him.

 

[User1996]

Only two people actually said it, but I was also addressing the vitriol everyone else in the last page seems to currently have towards him.

Don’t know I missed that, my bad.


Honestly though I wouldn’t be against exploring it. I brought I up on the main boards and am getting crucified. I don’t particularly want him moved, but there are situations that I think makes sense.

 

[Nanuuk]

There are four stages of Team Dynamics (Forming, Storming, Norming, and Performing). This process occurs whenever you have numerous changes in a team.

Forming - early getting to know the group
Storming - turmoil as the pecking order and roles are figured out
Norming - acceptance of your role and place
Performing - team chemistry

 

[Mobiandi]

Ignoring the fact that my post had trading Tkachuk as a last resort at a time that would make sense for the team...

Is anyone actually untouchable on this team?

People were lining up to trade Gaudreau last season and had much more pointed words for him despite having a much more influential tenure here than Tkachuk may ever have

 

[Mazatt]

Ignoring the fact that my post had trading Tkachuk as a last resort at a time that would make sense for the team...

Is anyone actually untouchable on this team?

People were lining up to trade Gaudreau last season and had much more pointed words for him despite having a much more influential tenure here than Tkachuk may ever have

Beyond young guys with lots of control it really feels like no one is untouchable aside from Lindholm as long as the team wants to stay competitive.