B33R LEAGUE
"Just another day at the office" -Byfuglien
- May 19, 2021
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Are The Jets Frauds?
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Buffdog
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2019
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I voted no, and I'll explain why
The team is built in such a way that it can win with depth and a certain type of play. We saw it on display in the early part of the year. Since then, we've upgraded our talent up front. So the possibility to get the same results is there
However, if they don't play the right way then there's no chance for them. This isn't a team that can coast by on talent and win. Our 1C sits around 25th for scoring for centres in the NHL
In other words, they are as good as they play. The term "fraud" to me sounds like it describes a team that is overacheiving. I don't believe the team overachieved earlier in the year, but I believe they're underachieving now
The team is built in such a way that it can win with depth and a certain type of play. We saw it on display in the early part of the year. Since then, we've upgraded our talent up front. So the possibility to get the same results is there
However, if they don't play the right way then there's no chance for them. This isn't a team that can coast by on talent and win. Our 1C sits around 25th for scoring for centres in the NHL
In other words, they are as good as they play. The term "fraud" to me sounds like it describes a team that is overacheiving. I don't believe the team overachieved earlier in the year, but I believe they're underachieving now
B33R LEAGUE
"Just another day at the office" -Byfuglien
- May 19, 2021
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I dont think they're frauds, but i think theyve lost their identity.
They havent been the same team since their 3 goals or less streak was broken.
Sometimes a good offense comes from a good defense. Thats how Bones systems work. Theyve gotten away from this blueprint.
They havent been the same team since their 3 goals or less streak was broken.
Sometimes a good offense comes from a good defense. Thats how Bones systems work. Theyve gotten away from this blueprint.
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There's a certain consistency with the Jets, from year to year, that is rather troubling.
We saw this under Maurice following our Conference final and we're seeing it again under Bones.
The second half fade.
To be fair to the players the season is ridiculously long with so many games but that's how it has been for a very long time. I say that to allow for the possibility of a slump at this point in the season though I remain un-convinced that is the true issue.
I'd like to blame this on coaching, but I'm not really certain how to do so effectively? Bones is clearly quite frustrated but is practicing more diplomacy than he did after last year's elimination from the playoffs. He doesn't seem happy and in his favor the Jets on the ice seem to have moved away from the style that had them first overall in the league. While I understand there may need to be some balance other than 100% adherence to Bones mandates they were winning at a ridiculous rate, without excessive puck luck (hello Vancouver). So they aren't having "fun" but they were winning? I'm not convinced that attitude is all that good. The team seems to have drifted away from team defense for certain and the usual suspects are, well, the usual suspects.
I will say that the Jets loyalty will cost them, in this instance their reliance on Brad Lauer for the powerplay. I'd love to point you to the post from one of the other posters on here following one game where our PP was again abysmal but I don't recall which game. They eloquently laid out Lauer's history and how other teams have played the PP very poorly under his guidance. Aside from a few games after acquiring Money, the PP has sucked for the bulk of the year. If we pot just one a game in our six game losing streak we're probably not in this thread at all, having gone .500 or better.
I'm not sure if it's the leadership among the players or not. As a fan and STH, I'm certainly tired of the second half fade as it is becoming something of a regular occurrence. There's a degree of frustration evident on most players faces but also a degree of apathy to an extent. Ehlers notably excluded from that and I expect Hellebuyck as well. I think Morrissey is getting burnt out. Hard to get mad at Vilardi with the time he's missed. Samberg was playing quite well and I think he's hurt currently (or Bones is an idiot and I don't want to think that; else he's also playing inconsistently with ice time - sure Samberg had a rough patch but Pionk ain't benched?). Third line is mostly doing what they can. Lowry is a warrior.
I believe the team has the talent to win a couple of rounds in the playoffs if they can figure their junk out, possibly farther if Helle gets hotter. But right now they haven't got what it takes. I wonder if what it takes is heart. The Winnipeg Tinmen?
We saw this under Maurice following our Conference final and we're seeing it again under Bones.
The second half fade.
To be fair to the players the season is ridiculously long with so many games but that's how it has been for a very long time. I say that to allow for the possibility of a slump at this point in the season though I remain un-convinced that is the true issue.
I'd like to blame this on coaching, but I'm not really certain how to do so effectively? Bones is clearly quite frustrated but is practicing more diplomacy than he did after last year's elimination from the playoffs. He doesn't seem happy and in his favor the Jets on the ice seem to have moved away from the style that had them first overall in the league. While I understand there may need to be some balance other than 100% adherence to Bones mandates they were winning at a ridiculous rate, without excessive puck luck (hello Vancouver). So they aren't having "fun" but they were winning? I'm not convinced that attitude is all that good. The team seems to have drifted away from team defense for certain and the usual suspects are, well, the usual suspects.
I will say that the Jets loyalty will cost them, in this instance their reliance on Brad Lauer for the powerplay. I'd love to point you to the post from one of the other posters on here following one game where our PP was again abysmal but I don't recall which game. They eloquently laid out Lauer's history and how other teams have played the PP very poorly under his guidance. Aside from a few games after acquiring Money, the PP has sucked for the bulk of the year. If we pot just one a game in our six game losing streak we're probably not in this thread at all, having gone .500 or better.
I'm not sure if it's the leadership among the players or not. As a fan and STH, I'm certainly tired of the second half fade as it is becoming something of a regular occurrence. There's a degree of frustration evident on most players faces but also a degree of apathy to an extent. Ehlers notably excluded from that and I expect Hellebuyck as well. I think Morrissey is getting burnt out. Hard to get mad at Vilardi with the time he's missed. Samberg was playing quite well and I think he's hurt currently (or Bones is an idiot and I don't want to think that; else he's also playing inconsistently with ice time - sure Samberg had a rough patch but Pionk ain't benched?). Third line is mostly doing what they can. Lowry is a warrior.
I believe the team has the talent to win a couple of rounds in the playoffs if they can figure their junk out, possibly farther if Helle gets hotter. But right now they haven't got what it takes. I wonder if what it takes is heart. The Winnipeg Tinmen?
The problem with Bones is that he rides his top guys hard and imo we don't have the top guys that can sustain a high level of play with the minutes he gives them. He compounds the issue when the team is loosing. For instance his still running Helle hard despite having a high end backup, JoMo played 30 minutes against Vegas and Mark is getting 22 s night lately.
I got flack earlier when I was pointing out the minutes the Perfetti second line was getting. I think we are seeing some effect of that now. Had that line got the 15 minutes a game it warranted our top line wouldn't have had to be deployed for the 20 minutes a game it has been all year.
I put it a failure of the coaching staff not to properly utilize the depth Chevy brought in.
Buffdog
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Greqt points
If I were Bones, I'd be rolling 4 lines regardless of score until thr last 3 or 4 games if the season. In addition, I'd be spotting top 6 guys for rest each game. Hell, I'd alsmot go "pre-season" mode and rest whole lines at a time (I'm sure bettman would love that)
Who gives a f*** where we finish at this point. If guys aren't willing/able to buy into the high tempo system come playoffs, it's gonna possibly be ugly anyway
Buffdog
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I could see next season as a mini-step back like they did in 2016/17 to get the kids up to speed. Bring in Lambert, McG and maybe even Solmonsson and let them develop on the fly. Commit to perfetti at 2C
You sell it to schief and Helle as a way of being competitive for the rest of their shiny new contracts
But I'd be shocked to see Chevy go. I have a feeling Bones won't be back, but that same feeling has Arniel as the next HC
JetsFan815
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- Jan 16, 2012
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I think the Jets are flawed team with their main hole being that their top end talent on forward does not measure up to most of the other playoff bound teams. However they do have better depth than many other teams. This to me means that the Jets can be a top team in the NHL only if they optimize he hell out of their forwards getting as much juice out of of them as possible. I think that is where they have left something on the table. This dip should not be a surprise as the overall 5v5 play has been dipping since the ASB.
For other top teams a dip like this at 5v5 is not as catastrophic as they tend to have better special teams. But for the Jets with special teams that are this ordinary, not hitting at 5v5 has an outsized impact.
PK after being great last season is back to being crap. It started the season pretty decent as atleast the number of chances they were giving up weren't that bad, but at some point I think there was a shift to it being more passive and now it looks like a shooting gallery without them being able to keep the area in front the crease clean.
For other top teams a dip like this at 5v5 is not as catastrophic as they tend to have better special teams. But for the Jets with special teams that are this ordinary, not hitting at 5v5 has an outsized impact.
PK after being great last season is back to being crap. It started the season pretty decent as atleast the number of chances they were giving up weren't that bad, but at some point I think there was a shift to it being more passive and now it looks like a shooting gallery without them being able to keep the area in front the crease clean.
JetsFan815
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- Jan 16, 2012
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Moving on from Ehlers would have a massive negative impact on the competitive window. Chevy has got to go to Ehlers on July 1st and ask if there is anything the Jets can do to make him consider re-signing. Be willing to pay him like a top line winger in this league similar to other 1st line wingers like Forsberg, Fiala, Kyrou... a matching deal to Scheifele/Helle should be an option on the table.
Dillon likely walks yes. DeMelo they gotta find a way to re-sign as there are literally no other options on RD.
Chevy is safe and should be safe as he's been pretty good.
Team needs a heart transplant. Is Ehlers a winner that can help the team get over this consistent inconsistency? I think his minutes are limited because he cant handle more.
I agree with a lot of this. Personally I think Chevy did a good job recently of doing what he is supposed to do, I think he found a way for us to have a winning/competitive team while we transition to the next era (of course with some overlap - Scheif, Morrissey, Helly, Lowry, to name a few). I foresee the younger players you mention working themselves into our lineup next year and developing into some key players for us. The positive in this is that by the 2025-26 season those players are potentially significantly contributing on ELC contracts and that’s when the jets may have the peak of their “window” from a cap standpoint. Next year could be a positive surprise as well, I say this because if we keep Ehlers/Connor (despite their UFA status coming) and Perfetti/McG/Lambert (or a combo of this group) end up being meaningful contributors on ELC’s it could make for a very deep forward group (deeper than this year). I’m a bit worried about our defence though, work needs to be done there on D for Chevy.
AlphaLackey
Registered User
Chevy is the last person I'd accuse of coming up short, and I'll leave it at that.
We don't even need to play him much more. Just stapling him to Scheifele and playing the 4 lines evenly would make the team measurably better 5v5
He did right by the coach, our vets and our fans this year
It's not over yet, but we are venturing into hope territory instead of legitimate aspirations to win a round or more
No issue giving Ehlers a similar contract to Scheifele and Helle, likely a bit less.
He has always been a team guy, hopefully he is open to stick around and try to get this thing right.
I can see this being the case.
Can't commit to Monahan and Toffoli without essentially taking away spots for Perfetti and Rutger
I'd be all for that but I can't see the org doing it. Look around how they have operated the last number of years with their prospects. They are going to over bake all of them now and try to put as experienced a team as possible on the ice to show Mark and Helle they are keeping their promise to them.
It is strange how the top line is being used minutes wise. I like Scheif, but he isn’t mcdavid/mckinnon/matthews level. And we have a fairly deep group at forward. On the other hand, I think Morrissey will (and should) be playing ~30 mins in the playoffs. I don’t know that I would be playing JMo 30 mins in regular season now with less than 10 games to go though… gotta keep him fresh for the potential playoff marathon at this stage (especially with 1st in the central essentially out of reach now).
sipowicz
The thrill is gone
- Mar 16, 2011
- 31,757
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Yes, sure as shit!
Mediocre team masked by a great goaltender who when he fails so goes the team!
Sorry but he can't overcome his small size with his lack of speed and quickness.....IMO
Mediocre team masked by a great goaltender who when he fails so goes the team!
Some you really believe Perfetan is something special......
Sorry but he can't overcome his small size with his lack of speed and quickness.....IMO
Good post, agree.
We spent on Monahan, TT, and Miller. The first two have integrated just fine -- where is Miller? Why are we not playing LB when a) he is fresh and rested and b) has been our best goalie of late?
Why has Pionk, who has looked out of sorts for at least a month or more now, not been rested in place of the solid depth D we spent assets to acquire?
Why is GV, coming off of another injury, instantly put onto the top line alongside seemingly still-recovering 81? Why not bring him in on L2 and let him find his feet while TT or SM -- who play a similar game -- get a shot there?
What has happened to the pressure game and also the quick outlet passes to exit the zone and allow the D to activate? I know the team D gets a lot of attention and it should, but I think it's success depended quite a bit on the Jets OZ pressure and NZ transition where opposing teams had no options and little time and space before routes and lanes were closed off. That's not happening now.
Key players on this team seems to have locked in years ago to a baseline game where a slow cycle and picking your spots is the default setting -- gain the zone, cycle, and wait for the perfect shot. 55, 81, Monahan and even 91 play that game. JMo can play it, and who knows WTF Pionk is doing at any given time when he isn't shanking a shot, missing a pass or taking a penalty.
But TT is a volume shooter, the Lowry line is -- weirdly -- a trio that play best off the rush, and Ehlers is at his best when gaining space to pass or shoot. Once the team stop moving as a connected unit and lose the NZ there's all kinds of space for opposing teams to exploit, the forwards have farther to skate and the D are playing catchup and eventually desperation hockey outside of a few cool heads like DD and Samberg (and sometimes Dillon).
This team is okay to poor in their own zone. The solution seems to be to avoid playing too much of the game there. So they need IMO to get back to the quick, simple-ish NZ-owning hockey that bought them so much success earlier on, and if that means rotating out players OUTSIDE of the 4th line, and occasionally swapping a Nino for a Barron, Iafallo etc, then so be it.
I've given up on the PP -- at least PP1. That seems to be left up to 55 and his crew and I don't see them changing things up now. So work on PP2 and even out the time, with the aim of getting shots on net anyway anyhow.
No idea why the PK, a strength fairly recently with similar personnel, has become such utter fecking pants. We seem to have fallen back into the PoMo Static Square, where no one moves until it's too late. No quick decisive sticks, no moving fast into shot lanes, weak-arsed zone clearances. This should be simple and they've somehow made it hard.
I don't really care who plays with whom. There's enough forward talent here to deploy 4 lines that can gain a zone, maintain possession, track back and generate plenty of chances. If Rick and his staff can't identify those lines and run them, or won't, that's solidly on them.
That includes running Helle for 5 games in a week and a bit, playing JMo in the high 20s night after night and 55 over 20. These guys should be rested and soon.
I grew to hate watching the Jets play in the PoMo Twilight Years, because game after game, season after season, they seemed to play to not lose rather than to win. Safe vets, glued-together top lines, static schemes. And they lost. This team has the talent in depth if not in elite-ness to be hard to beat by nearly anyone on any night. They have roughly a 10th of the season to figure it out.
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I think Perfetti showed stretches of top 6 calibre play but isn't consistent enough for it to be a top line calibre guy like he needs to be.
Happens to tons of guys drafted in the late top 10. They reach their potential but it's more at 24-26 than as soon as we would need. May not get quicker but he will get stronger and more experienced.
He has some of the best defensive metrics on the team which means something at his age
Some great points being made here.
For the first 50 ish games it seemed like this group finally figured it out. They understood bones system and worked hard to implement it. Way more buy in than last season. Team D is hard work. As the anonymous player was quoted, "not fun". Top defensive team in the league led by one of the best goalies in the league. Only issue was special teams.
Coincidence or not, the buy in seemed to have evaporated when KC returned to the lineup.
As the games get harder to play, the Jets seem to get worse.
For the first 50 ish games it seemed like this group finally figured it out. They understood bones system and worked hard to implement it. Way more buy in than last season. Team D is hard work. As the anonymous player was quoted, "not fun". Top defensive team in the league led by one of the best goalies in the league. Only issue was special teams.
Coincidence or not, the buy in seemed to have evaporated when KC returned to the lineup.
As the games get harder to play, the Jets seem to get worse.
- Jun 8, 2011
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I think Chevy has done a great job building the kind of team he intended to build. I am starting to wonder if maybe he isn't building the right thing.
I would sign Monahan for the right deal. I wouldnt touch Toffoli with a ten foot pole.
Cypruss
Stand up for your beliefs.
roccerfeller
jets bromantic
Murat Ates wrote about this Ehlers on the top line conundrum a while ago in the athletic and his article has become oddly prophetic looking back
I can’t find it right now but it basically predicted, using the good old mathematical analyses, without an elite top line the Jets would struggle, and that there was a night and day difference between 27-55-13 and 81-55-13 for whatever myriad of reasons this year
I can’t find it right now but it basically predicted, using the good old mathematical analyses, without an elite top line the Jets would struggle, and that there was a night and day difference between 27-55-13 and 81-55-13 for whatever myriad of reasons this year
spiny norman
Administrator
No, they're just going through a rough patch.
Better now than in the 1st round of the playoffs.
Better now than in the 1st round of the playoffs.
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