Any underlying issues driving all the long term issues?

[K1984]

I hate making assumptions like this because I have zero evidence other than intuition that this might be a problem, but there is something not right with how the long term core of this team (McDavid, Drai, Nuge, Nurse) operate. And by "operate" I don't even know specifically what that means, there is just something not right.

Since the 17-18 season each year has had varying iterations of:

- Massive swings in how this team plays; from looking like the best team in the league to the worst week to week
- Horrendous team defensive play
- Consistent struggles with work ethic, even at the best of times
- Discipline problems
- Consistent struggle to grind their way out of bad play in a season
- Consistent struggles with details of the game
- Total team collapse after a year or two of good or sometimes even great play necessitating major change somewhere on the team
- Consistent struggles starting games
- Reverting to being the worst at something after it is perceived to be fixed (defensive play, PK for example)
- Immediately seeing the work ethic/commitment to detailed play collapse the moment they start to feel good about themselves/face a pressure situation

The roster and coaching staff has turned over several times since 2017, the only remaining players are those 4, but we still get the same results. Either the statistically improbable is true and no matter who we bring in randomly continues to perpetuate these problems, or there is a major problem with the team function in the room that is driven by the 4 constant players.

Again, no idea what that specific problem is, but there has to be something there with those 4. This doesn't happen in other markets where no matter how much the roster is improved, no matter how many times it gets turned over, no matter how many times you change the coach that they end up in the exact same place with the exact same problems. It's every time.

 

[mkatcherin00]

Such a weird season. Goaltending *cough cough* and big blunders

Here are the 5 best teams ratio wise for HDCF/HDCA

Avs
Oilers
Kings
Pitt
NJ

 

[Drivesaitl]

Organizational problems always start at the top. So Katz is the primary culprit. He's hired his best buddies rather than intelligent hockey minds. This country club environment has permeated down to the coaches and even players, who prefer to acquire/play with their best friends rather than actual hockey players.

One of the many reasons I was not in favor of the new arena and entertainment district, and Katz ownings and investment within it is it meant that the org would stay the course, and be able to stay the course of being a poorly run org for more decades. Because basically new Arenas and Entertainment and realestate holding sell and appreciate fairly on their own for awhile. On ice results were just not going to matter.

I've always wondered too how much it would take for people to just stop going to games. To stop spending 300bucks on every Jersey and hundreds of bucks on tickets. Was roaming through Oilers shop in Entertainment district. Apparently a T-shirt should cost 50bucks and a cap 50 bucks. They had Heritage Classic stuff in there they wanted 400bucks for. Every bit of marketing from 10buck fries to 15buck beers says the pro sports consumer just doesn't care and just line up to hand their money over.

These days the sneetches with Oilers Jerseys on their bellies keep frollicking anyhoo.

 

[FlameChampion]

1) No accountability from top to bottom
2) Lack of critical thinking from organizational point of view
3) Team isnt committed to team defense and details in game
4) Goaltending
5) Effective leadership

 

[brentashton]

One of the many reasons I was not in favor of the new arena and entertainment district, and Katz ownings and investment within it is it meant that the org would stay the course, and be able to stay the course of being a poorly run org for more decades. Because basically new Arenas and Entertainment and realestate holding sell and appreciate fairly on their own for awhile. On ice results were just not going to matter.

I've always wondered too how much it would take for people to just stop going to games. To stop spending 300bucks on every Jersey and hundreds of bucks on tickets. Was roaming through Oilers shop in Entertainment district. Apparently a T-shirt should cost 50bucks and a cap 50 bucks. They had Heritage Classic stuff in there they wanted 400bucks for. Every bit of marketing from 10buck fries to 15buck beers says the pro sports consumer just doesn't care and just line up to hand their money over.

These days the sneetches with Oilers Jerseys on their bellies keep frollicking anyhoo.

View attachment 765167

Lol!!

So Katz is the Fix It Up Chappie of the Oiler org?

What ironic nomenclature.

 

[DynamiteKid]

No one is held accountable for their actions and McDrai is put out in ALL situations (double shifts, all power play, short handed, late in the game, overtime). The rest of the players are shown that they don't matter.

I think the team is not really a team.

Strudwick talks about it all the time.

 

[Stoneman89]

Hey guys,

I'm not an Oilers fan but seeing how bad the team's start has been had me wondering- usually we see teams completely tank for a few years, build through some great draft picks and off they go to win games and cups (i.e. Penguins, Lightning). However in the McDavid era it feels like it's been a non-stop string of false starts and stops. Are there any underlying factors driving all this? Like I know there's been a revolving door of GMs but is that alone to blame? Or is it because leadership is bad at hiring GM's (who in turn draft poorly/make bad trades and signings) and if so why is leadership not held accountable for those bad hires? Or is it something else?

Mowzie, is that you?

 

[Louis Cypher]

Not enough bounce. Ever since bounce gifs were banned we have not played well. Need more bounce.

 

[Kamus]

Easy answer and obvious….. ownership

 

[rboomercat90]

The water.

I’d bet it has a lot more to do with red wine than it does with water.

 

[FlameChampion]

I hate making assumptions like this because I have zero evidence other than intuition that this might be a problem, but there is something not right with how the long term core of this team (McDavid, Drai, Nuge, Nurse) operate. And by "operate" I don't even know specifically what that means, there is just something not right.

Since the 17-18 season each year has had varying iterations of:

- Massive swings in how this team plays; from looking like the best team in the league to the worst week to week
- Horrendous team defensive play
- Consistent struggles with work ethic, even at the best of times
- Discipline problems
- Consistent struggle to grind their way out of bad play in a season
- Consistent struggles with details of the game
- Total team collapse after a year or two of good or sometimes even great play necessitating major change somewhere on the team
- Consistent struggles starting games
- Reverting to being the worst at something after it is perceived to be fixed (defensive play, PK for example)
- Immediately seeing the work ethic/commitment to detailed play collapse the moment they start to feel good about themselves/face a pressure situation

The roster and coaching staff has turned over several times since 2017, the only remaining players are those 4, but we still get the same results. Either the statistically improbable is true and no matter who we bring in randomly continues to perpetuate these problems, or there is a major problem with the team function in the room that is driven by the 4 constant players.

Again, no idea what that specific problem is, but there has to be something there with those 4. This doesn't happen in other markets where no matter how much the roster is improved, no matter how many times it gets turned over, no matter how many times you change the coach that they end up in the exact same place with the exact same problems. It's every time.

I also don’t think the leadership core does a good job of pulling the team together. Bottom 6 and some prospects feel like they are apart of a different team. Partially on coaching staff for not defining roles properly either.

 

[guymez]

Lack of effective executive leadership.

The ability of someone at the top to be able to anticipate and read the tea leaves of where the league is trending, hiring then the right people in key roles in the org to draft & develop and then surround them with a coach that fits with the type of team skills and personalities that you have assembled to achieve the championship goals in the time frame you were working with.

The Oilers under Katz have done the opposite. They hired OBC members who were good at cracking the tops of red wine bottles and regaling the owner with stories from the 80s, didn’t assemble the necessary org with effective organizational depth people to establish strong scouting and player development and then put coaches into place to lead. When they found out that wasn’t working they hired an offshoot of the OBC in Bobby Nicks and during his tenure did much the same again. And now Jeff Jackson part 3, his legacy TBD (but he’s been dealt a hard hand to play from). They have been in a reactive, fire fighting mode since they hired Nicholson for the most part, dithering away draft assets, trade assets, coaching resources all trying to shore up an organization with a waning championship window.

It boils down to ineffective executive leadership.

Look at Vegas for an example of how TO do it. Look at Edmonton as a cautionary tale of how to not execute.

You pretty much nailed it.
An organization is only as good as its leadership.

 

[brentashton]

You pretty much nailed it.
An organization is only as good as its leadership.

Except I actually think that it’s something in the water.

 

[guymez]

Except I actually think that it’s something in the water.

Ha...that sounds like something incompetent management would say.

 

[Moregoalspls]

Offense wise I think these guys think the crest on the jerseys is there target. Stone hands for days.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Great... outside fans are now conducting focus group polls on HFOil

 

[DrDrai]

The teams depth is hot garbage. Part of that is the development and drafting side of things. The other part is poor pro scouting.

2022 wasn't terrible, but essentially stop our top line or PP and what do we have? We are very top heavy on our goal scoring. 2006 obviously benefited from a hot goalie but we had that depth scoring too.


Here are the stats from the 2006 playoff run. Obviously 1 or 2 more round but gives some perspective on depth:

2006:

Name	Pos	GP	G	A	P
Chris Pronger	D	24​	5​	16​	21​
Shawn Horcoff	F	24​	7​	12​	19​
Fernando Pisani	F	24​	14​	4​	18​
Ales Hemsky	F	24​	6​	11​	17​
Ryan Smyth	F	24​	7​	9​	16​
Sergei Samsonov	F	24​	4​	11​	15​
Jaroslav Spacek	D	24​	3​	11​	14​
Mike Peca	F	24​	6​	5​	11​
Raffi Torres	F	22​	4​	7​	11​
Jarret Stoll	F	24​	4​	6​	10​
Steve Staios	F	24​	1​	5​	6​
Jason Smith	D	24​	1​	4​	5​
Rem Murray	F	24​	0​	4​	4​
Marc-Andre Bergeron	D	18​	2​	1​	3​
Ethan Moreau	F	21​	2​	1​	3​
Brad Winchester	F	10​	1​	2​	3​
Todd Harvey	F	10​	1​	1​	2​
Georges Laraque	F	15​	1​	1​	2​
Dick Tärnström	D	12​	0​	2​	2​
Radek Dvorák	F	16​	0​	2​	2​
Dwayne Roloson	G	18​	0​	2​	2​
Toby Petersen	F	2​	1​	0​	1​
Matt Greene	D	18​	0​	1​	1​
Ty Conklin	G	1​	0​	0​	0​
Jussi Markkanen	G	6​	0​	0​	0​

2022:

Name	Age	Pos	GP	G	A	P
Connor McDavid	24​	F	16​	10​	23​	33​
Leon Draisaitl	26​	F	16​	7​	25​	32​
Evander Kane	30​	F	15​	13​	4​	17​
Zach Hyman	29​	F	16​	11​	5​	16​
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins	28​	F	16​	6​	8​	14​
Evan Bouchard	22​	D	16​	3​	6​	9​
Kailer Yamamoto	23​	F	14​	2​	5​	7​
Cody Ceci	28​	D	16​	1​	6​	7​
Darnell Nurse	26​	D	15​	2​	4​	6​
Duncan Keith	38​	D	16​	1​	4​	5​
Tyson Barrie	30​	D	16​	1​	4​	5​
Brett Kulak	27​	D	16​	0​	5​	5​
Ryan McLeod	22​	F	16​	3​	1​	4​
Zack Kassian	30​	F	16​	2​	2​	4​
Jesse Puljujärvi	23​	F	16​	2​	1​	3​
Derek Ryan	35​	F	15​	1​	2​	3​
Josh Archibald	29​	F	13​	0​	1​	1​
Warren Foegele	25​	F	13​	0​	1​	1​
Mike Smith	39​	G	16​	0​	1​	1​
Derick Brassard	34​	F	1​	0​	0​	0​
Philip Broberg	20​	D	1​	0​	0​	0​
Dylan Holloway	20​	F	1​	0​	0​	0​
Brad Malone	32​	F	2​	0​	0​	0​
Mikko Koskinen	33​	G	3​	0​	0​	0​
Kris Russell	34​	D	6​	0​	0​	0​

2023:

Name	Age	Pos	GP	G	A	P
Connor McDavid	25​	F	12​	8​	12​	20​
Leon Draisaitl	27​	F	12​	13​	5​	18​
Evan Bouchard	23​	D	12​	4​	13​	17​
Zach Hyman	30​	F	12​	3​	8​	11​
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins	29​	F	12​	1​	10​	11​
Mattias Ekholm	32​	D	12​	1​	6​	7​
Evander Kane	31​	F	12​	3​	2​	5​
Klim Kostin	23​	F	12​	3​	2​	5​
Ryan McLeod	23​	F	12​	0​	5​	5​
Kailer Yamamoto	24​	F	12​	1​	3​	4​
Darnell Nurse	27​	D	11​	0​	4​	4​
Nick Bjugstad	30​	F	12​	3​	0​	3​
Warren Foegele	26​	F	12​	2​	1​	3​
Derek Ryan	36​	F	11​	1​	2​	3​
Brett Kulak	28​	D	12​	1​	1​	2​
Vincent Desharnais	26​	D	12​	0​	2​	2​
Mattias Janmark-Nylén	30​	F	5​	0​	1​	1​
Cody Ceci	29​	D	12​	0​	1​	1​
Jack Campbell	30​	G	4​	0​	0​	0​
Philip Broberg	21​	D	9​	0​	0​	0​
Stuart Skinner	24​	G	12​	0​	0​	0​

 

[CupofOil]

Drafting and developing first and foremost. It's not only been an issue during the McDavid era but also during the Hall era and even prior to that.
Not one impact player drafted outside of the 1st round since Petry and Marino who found most of their success elsewhere and, more recently, their 1st rounders since McDavid have been Puljujarvi, Yamamoto, Bouchard, Broberg, Holloway and Bourgault. They did parlay Schaefer and other 1st into Ekholm but that's six 1st round picks with only one being an NHL regular on their current roster and that player is struggling mightily this season. You can't compete for Cups if you're solely dependent on free agency and the trade market (which has Edmonton on NTCs all throughout the league) to build a contender.
In a market like Edmonton especially, it's imperative that you build with homegrown talent and they've failed miserably at this.
Quite frankly, it's a miracle that the Oilers have won 3 playoff rounds in the last 2 years considering all this but it's just a testament to how dominant McDavid and Draisaitl are.

Next is poor cap management and lack of creative ability to identify under the radar players, bargain bin players that overperform, which is something teams like Vegas, Colorado and Tampa excel at. This isn't just a Holland thing, it's been going on ever since Kevin Lowe was in his GMing prime and I'm not just talking '06, he was great at this in the early 2000s as well.
Chiarelli and Holland are utterly clueless when it comes to this. Tambellini and MacT simply just didn't do much of anything to warrant cap complications.

Finally, it's a Country Club atmosphere full of guys who are stuck in Stone Age thinking and are more interested in hiring guys that they're comfortable being around than more qualified candidates. There's also no accountability which starts at the top and filters down all throughout the organization.
To further that, they've been woefully behind other franchises with their scouting staffs, analytics etc.
Jeff Jackson is the first hire that I remember in my lifetime as an Oilers fan who might change this but he's another crony hire (being McDavid's former agent and all) so the logistics of this hire isn't great either but I'm actually hopeful that he'll bring this organization out of The Jurassic Era and bring fresh ideas and approaches to the table.

I could go on and on but these are the ones that stick out to me as the biggest organizational issues over the years/decades. There are more that I'm sure others have touched on.

 

[Nostradumbass]

When your goalie can’t make a save, the players start abandoning the plan and start scrambling. They think that their scramble is “extra effort” to try to prevent goals, but it’s really just leaving other players wide open. Then once again, the goalie doesn’t make a save, and everyone starts digging their hole deeper.

Our goalies have proven they can play, but every goalie that has come here has declined under Schwartz. Turf him, see if the goalies can turn it around, then start looking at personnel moves.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

The "McDavid Era" is tied to a decade of incompetent management groups (3) that preceded it that failed in essential hockey functions notably drafting and development and trades to improve the NHL roster. It culminated with the peak stupidity carpet bombing of Peter Chiarelli that left this team a capped out lottery team with a thread bare NHL roster.

Throw in bad juju to losing two-thirds of an emerging prime year d-corp of Klefbom, Larsson and Nurse that aligned with the super elites aging curve. This organization had little Dutch Boy issues to fill significant holes at forward, defense, and has still f***ed up goaltending wasting like 9 draft picks hoping to find a future goaltender while recycling old, established tenders with flawed games. Ultimately betting the farm on Jack Campbell has sewered this team in a stalled covid cap universe.

 

[McDrai]

Drafting and development.

We never have players coming up from the farm who can make any sort of positive contribution on this team. It’s the same old shit every year: “Player X is doing really well on the farm, let’s recall them.” After several games with 0’s on the stat line and 8 or less minutes played per game, player X is sent back down to the AHL as they can’t handle the speed of the NHL. If some of our AHL prospects do manage to make the show, they usually fall well short of what their ceiling could have been or make an initial positive contribution before regressing big time. Think McLeod, Desharnais, Skinner, etc. If you can’t fill spots internally then the GM has to go out on the free market and overpay for support players. Now we’re at the cap and have next to nothing of significance in terms of up and coming prospects.

Another big factor that is also related to drafting is not placing a big emphasis on drafting the elite level goalies in each draft. It can be a crapshoot at times but I recall every f***ing poster on this board clamouring for Holland to trade up and draft a falling Wallstedt. It would have been phenomenal to have a goalie of that calibre in the system.

 

[DrDrai]

Drafting and development.

We never have players coming up from the farm who can make any sort of positive contribution on this team. It’s the same old shit every year: “Player X is doing really well on the farm, let’s recall them.” After several games with 0’s on the stat line and 8 or less minutes played per game, player X is sent back down to the AHL as they can’t handle the speed of the NHL. If some of our AHL prospects do manage to make the show, they usually fall well short of what their ceiling could have been or make an initial positive contribution before regressing big time. Think McLeod, Desharnais, Skinner, etc. If you can’t fill spots internally then the GM has to go out on the free market and overpay for support players. Now we’re at the cap and have next to nothing of significance in terms of up and coming prospects.

Another big factor that is also related to drafting is not placing a big emphasis on drafting the elite level goalies in each draft. It can be a crapshoot at times but I recall every f***ing poster on this board clamouring for Holland to trade up and draft a falling Wallstedt. It would have been phenomenal to have a goalie of that calibre in the system.

The fact that we traded down when he fell to us makes it even worse.

 

[McDrai]

The fact that we traded down when he fell to us makes it even worse.

Damn, totally forgot that we actually traded down. That’s definitely worse

 

[brentashton]

Ha...that sounds like something incompetent management would say.

Some would say I excelled at incompetent management for nearly 40 years and know a thing or two about it.

(Said in my best, (non)humble Kevin Lowe impersonation).

 

[Drivesaitl]

I also don’t think the leadership core does a good job of pulling the team together. Bottom 6 and some prospects feel like they are apart of a different team. Partially on coaching staff for not defining roles properly either.

The team isn't tight currently. Seems like a collection of personalities. Some recent comments from people attending last home game was the team seems not even a team in pregame skate. Few talking to each other or on the bench. One fan said its as if the players don't even know each other. Or maybe stopped wanting to.

McD is hard to play with. That seems odd statement but no less than Eberle had trouble doing it. Drai seems more acccepting of playing with a range of talent.

This is a club that needed Duncan keith in here stating that players HAVE to be supporting each other and that the org needs to be doing that. Not only are the players not doing that the org is scapegoating players they started in Game 1 and just waiving them. Worse, and unconscionable the headcoach and GM are involved in this to save their own skin through the window dressing of doing something