Any chance at Draisaitl?

[Indrid Cold]

Not even close to that. See this is where Red Wings fan actually value their own players more than they're actually worth. Edvinsson plus Raymond actually are not better than having Draisaitl. (IMO).

How good/bad do you think Leon Draisaitl is? I think he's easy top 5 player so... yeah.

The team would be stalled out the same way it would for one year anyways(this year) and you'd have money, etc to build with a legitimate core of Draisaitl/Larkin/DeBrincat/Seider/Compher/Danielson/Kasper/Cossa. What I don't know is how much "extra" money Red Wings would have to sign a another F. Depending on how much they have they can offer a middle six veteran a 1 year or sign a tough guy or bring up a rookie.


Alex DeBrincat – (C) Dylan Larkin – J.T. Compher
Robby Fabbri – Leon Draisaitl(trade) – Nate Danielson(Rookie)
Michael Rasmussen – (A) Andrew Copp – Jonatan Berggren(RFA)
Christian Fischer(Min) – Joe Veleno(RFA) – ????(UFA/Rookie)

* Austin Czarnik(Min)

Jake Walman – Mortiz Seider(Extension)
(A) Ben Chiarot – Jeff Petry
Albert Johansson(Rookie) – Ollie Maata

* Justin Holl

Alex Lyon
Sebastian Cossa(Rookie)
Ville Husso

Clear case of sticker shock but adding Draisaitl for that price would easily set the Red Wings up better. They'd have legit runs within 1 or 2 years and could attract veteran free agents. (Similiar to Kane). Kind of have to wait for Fabbri/Petry/Maata/Husso to clear spots out after this next up coming season to target major upgrades.

Oilers themselves almost for sure don't even accept that trade.

I'd personally bet on the upside of Ed and Ray over Drai. Ed is a key piece to fixing that horrible defense, and Raymond is still growing as a player.

 

[Snuggs]

Wait, you didn't mean "top 5 player in the league" (which would've been more true..) but "top 5 player on our team", which is why you slotted him as 2C?

Hilarious. Better compare him and Larkin again?

Super funny bro. He he haha.

I'd personally bet on the upside of Ed and Ray over Drai. Ed is a key piece to fixing that horrible defense, and Raymond is still growing as a player.

Fair, but each one would have to be like top 15/10 player at positions. (imo) Two pretty good players aren't better than one of the best players in the whole world.

Always revert back to the trade last year with Debrincat and remember people where actually a little upset we let Kubalik go. Fans always over-value there own. (45 points on DET/ 15 points with OTT)

 

[Bondurant]

If I am the Oilers, I keep trying with McDavid and Drai for as long as possible, until the wheels fall off those two. But who knows, constant disappointment can cause bad decisions by management sometimes.

But do McDavid and Draisaitl want to keep trying with the Oilers?

 

[PelagicJoe]

Drai will cost a lot, be it trade or FA. I'd wait until he hits UFA unless Stevie knows in advance when Kenny will be drunk and/or suffering from an episode of dementia.

 

[OneMoreTry]

Super funny bro. He he haha.

I didn't come up with those lines, you did. And since you haven't edited, you'd still put a 110 point guy on the second line?

 

[NickH8]

If you can get Draisaitl, you do it.
Will he be available? No.

 

[Indrid Cold]

Super funny bro. He he haha.


Fair, but each one would have to be like top 15/10 player at positions. (imo) Two pretty good players aren't better than one of the best players in the whole world.

Always revert back to the trade last year with Debrincat and remember people where actually a little upset we let Kubalik go. Fans always over-value there own. (45 points on DET/ 15 points with OTT)

And look how that's working out for Edmonton? They have TWO of the best players in the world and can't get over the hump because they have little behind those two.

 

[Snuggs]

And look how that's working out for Edmonton? They have TWO of the best players in the world and can't get over the hump because they have little behind those two.

Oh... come on that isn't fair. Is it THEIR faults or the guy running the show surrounding them with the other talent.

You don't trust Yzerman to bring or surround those guys with better people than Holland? Others players are getting paid way too much on that team outside of those two.

And... Catch 22. They're considered Stanely cup contenders pretty much annual. Red Wings can't even make the playoffs or get a better player than Larkin, so how's that working out?

It's like saying the Maple Leafs suck (they do) but my gosh I wish the Red Wings were in their position, literally on the cusp of a breakthrough vs HOPING we can draft right and sustain some sort of "long-term-success" as we are unsuccessful for a long time.

 

[Indrid Cold]

Oh... come on that isn't fair. Is it THEIR faults or the guy running the show surrounding them with the other talent.

You don't trust Yzerman to bring or surround those guys with better people than Holland?

And... Catch 22. They're considered Stanely cup contenders pretty much annual. Red Wings can't even make the playoffs or get a better player than Larkin, so how's that working out?

Kind of hard with that salary cap. Having Y in charge doesn't make it automatically go up. He would certainly do better than Holland, but I would take fully developed Ed and Ray at 14 million a year over Drai. Period. Deeper teams are winning Cups, right Edmonton and Toronto?

 

[Retire91]

And look how that's working out for Edmonton? They have TWO of the best players in the world and can't get over the hump because they have little behind those two.

And not only that but drafting in this position from 2010 - 2016
1 OA
19 OA
1 OA
1 OA
7 OA
3 OA
1 OA
4 OA

Honestly even with a crap management that still should have won a cup

 

[Snuggs]

Kind of hard with that salary cap. Having Y in charge doesn't make it automatically go up. He would certainly do better than Holland, but I would take fully developed Ed and Ray at 14 million a year over Drai. Period. Deeper teams are winning Cups, right Edmonton and Toronto?

Talking deeper teams with better players than Raymond/Edvinsson. Edmonton has paid the wrong people outside of Draisaitl/McDavid.

Florida paid the right people, NYR paid the right people, Dallas paid the right people, Vegas paying the right people, Boston...

Paying people isn't a problem, paying the wrong people does kill you like Columbus.

I understand stand your point of view, but, neither player is that good yet, imo, and everything has to go well. Almost perfect for them to be what you are saying to me. (imo). Since Draisaitl trade is basically not happening, I do, hope you are right and Edvinsson is yearly Norris material, and Raymond pushes 30 plus goals regularly.

My POV back to you is, hey, we do still have money, prospects, things after a Draisailt move, don't you trust Steve Yzerman to do something?

 

[19 for president]

Kind of hard with that salary cap. Having Y in charge doesn't make it automatically go up. He would certainly do better than Holland, but I would take fully developed Ed and Ray at 14 million a year over Drai. Period. Deeper teams are winning Cups, right Edmonton and Toronto?

Agreed in the new NHL depth typically wins over pure star power, and if you are going to go pure star power you better have guys committed to both ends of the ice and playing in dirty areas ala Malkin and Crosby.

Now this does rely on Ray and Ed being a top line winger and top pairing dman respectively but if they do hit I'd take that over 1 player unless its maybe McDavid. Although I think Ray + Ed is what you'd need to give up to get a Drai type player.

My concern with Drai is that we've never really seen him in the NHL without McDavid. At the 14 mil he is likely to command he has to put up the same kind of 110-120pt seasons he has been on his new team. Can he sustain that without the best player in the world and playing on a much more two way team, and a less dominant PP? 14 million has to be a sure bet investment or it completely destroys your cap structure. For free I probably take the risk. Giving up top end assets though and cap space would make me more leery.

Two way players and defenders typically cost less but have similar impacts on the game, and work better overall in a cap world. But that is only the case if we are talking 1st line vs 1st line players. Taking two 3rd liners vs a 1st liner player does not usually equal out.

 

[Gniwder]

But do McDavid and Draisaitl want to keep trying with the Oilers?

We'll find out next summer. In the end it's usually about money. If Drai ($8.5M currently) wants a big raise then that hurts their chances even more.

You don't see too many players taking a discount to go after the Cup until they're in their mid 30's.

 

[Indrid Cold]

Talking deeper teams with better players than Raymond/Edvinsson. Edmonton has paid the wrong people outside of Draisaitl/McDavid.

Florida paid the right people, NYR paid the right people, Dallas paid the right people, Vegas paying the right people, Boston...

Paying people isn't a problem, paying the wrong people does kill you like Columbus.

I understand stand your point of view, but, neither player is that good yet, imo, and everything has to go well. Almost perfect for them to be what you are saying to me. (imo). Since Draisaitl trade is basically not happening, I do, hope you are right and Edvinsson is yearly Norris material, and Raymond pushes 30 plus goals regularly.

My POV back to you is, hey, we do still have money, prospects, things after a Draisailt move, don't you trust Steve Yzerman to do something?

Like I said, it is a gamble. The same faith that would lead me to believing Yzerman can do something with Drai would have me believe he can get the most out of Ed and Ray.

Salary caps scare the Schitt out of me, dude. The Detroit Lions are destroying their cap as we speak. Perhaps I need to get over that.

 

[jkutswings]

Salary caps scare the Schitt out of me, dude. The Detroit Lions are destroying their cap as we speak. Perhaps I need to get over that.

Actually the cap in the NFL is the easiest to deal with in all of the major sports. It escalates the fastest and has the cleanest delineation between what money is guaranteed and what can be outright cut at a moment's notice.

The Lions spent a lot of cash this spring, but I believe it's structured so that it won't hurt them long term. (And honestly, I'd much rather a team go all in while they can, versus staying conservative in hopes of just being good for a long time.)

 

[Indrid Cold]

Actually the cap in the NFL is the easiest to deal with in all of the major sports. It escalates the fastest and has the cleanest delineation between what money is guaranteed and what can be outright cut at a moment's notice.

The Lions spent a lot of cash this spring, but I believe it's structured so that it won't hurt them long term. (And honestly, I'd much rather a team go all in while they can, versus staying conservative in hopes of just being good for a long time.)

I know Holmes knows what he is doing, but it's amazing what ONE good year can do to your cap. The Wings are already nearing a cap crunch and have not even had that one good year yet.

 

[jkutswings]

The Wings are already nearing a cap crunch and have not even had that one good year yet.

Nearing a cap limit and nearing a cap crunch are two different things though. We still don't know who they're bringing back, and there will be at least some contracts and buyouts falling off the books in the next year or two.

I would agree that they'd need to move some money out in order to make any larger additions this summer, but I don't think their hands are irrevocably tied (at least not yet).

 

[Indrid Cold]

Nearing a cap limit and nearing a cap crunch are two different things though. We still don't know who they're bringing back, and there will be at least some contracts and buyouts falling off the books in the next year or two.

I would agree that they'd need to move some money out in order to make any larger additions this summer, but I don't think their hands are irrevocably tied (at least not yet).

Like I said, I am cap paranoid, LOL. When Mo and Ray get their extensions, things will start to tighten up, but at least they'll know what they have to work with.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Talking deeper teams with better players than Raymond/Edvinsson. Edmonton has paid the wrong people outside of Draisaitl/McDavid.

Florida paid the right people, NYR paid the right people, Dallas paid the right people, Vegas paying the right people, Boston...

Paying people isn't a problem, paying the wrong people does kill you like Columbus.

I understand stand your point of view, but, neither player is that good yet, imo, and everything has to go well. Almost perfect for them to be what you are saying to me. (imo). Since Draisaitl trade is basically not happening, I do, hope you are right and Edvinsson is yearly Norris material, and Raymond pushes 30 plus goals regularly.

My POV back to you is, hey, we do still have money, prospects, things after a Draisailt move, don't you trust Steve Yzerman to do something?

No. Because to pry away Draisaitl, it’s gonna be more than Edvinsson and Raymond, precisely because of what you said.

Edmonton has zero reason to make a Draisaitl move. And if they do… it’s a Draisaitl-Matthews swap or something like that. Or like Brady Tkachuk plus Thomas Chabot.


No GM with a brain deals Leon Draisaitl for a package unless it’s so brain dead of the other team to offer. I.E. they’re taking a pair of young-mid young very established great players. (A la Paul Coffey and Keith Primeau for Brendan Shanahan)

 

[Retire91]

there is no way to shortcut the rebuild. A package to get a player like this would be at minimum be a package like Seider + Raymond + our 1st. Then you add 12-14 million in cap for Draisaitl's next contract. So we lose 3 years of draft capital and add an extremely top heavy cap situation to the mix. Getting an elite player sounds nice on paper but there are consequences to moves like this.

this trade would effectively "restart" the rebuild.

 

[K1900L]

I talked about a potential Draisaitl move to Detroit 3 years ago on here, anticipating the scenario that his contract would end and Edmonton wouldn't have improved depth-wise. To me it was clear that if a superstar #1C would come to Detroit via trade or FA, it would be Leon.
But looking at his performances, interviews and general conduct, I don't think he wants to leave Edmonton until they have had success. McDavid and Draisaitl truly appreciate one another and both know that they will never get to play with a different player as good again -- the chemistry is unique in modern hockey.
This also depends on where McDavid wants to be two years from now. I'm pretty sure both of them will hold talks once this season is over, especially with a failure.

If he decides to move on, however, I don't see how a move to Detroit could be made possible.
He might simply go to Boston, who seem to have an interest in him and who probably wouldn't need to trade away their #1 winger and #1 defenseman either -- a team that is already competing for the cup.
It would also be a questionable move by Detroit. Not because Draisaitl isn't worth it, but because trading away multiple very good players for a single superior player doesn't really work out most of the time.
Additionally, would Draisaitl approve of losing the only winger who could be good enough to read his plays and keep up with him mentally should Raymond be in the package to enable the trade?

The only trade making sense for both teams is picks + prospects for Draisaitl, assuming that Edmonton is going for a rebuild (possible if both Drai and McDavid tell management that they would want to leave, but unlikely).

 

[Snuggs]

Anyone hoping for this to gain any traction...

One more loss till maybe more whispers are written about by writers.

 

[lilidk]

It's probably Edvinsson ++

 

[Snuggs]

It's probably Edvinsson ++

Oh for sure, I'd have to see a deal and what it looked like before I'm happy, sad, or anything like that but... idk just like stoking flames.

I don't get the mind set of... "its not worth it" without seeing it, or "it's awesome" without knowing the cost and seeing how bad(or not bad) Red wings would be hand cuffed. I've kind of spite-balled what it "might" cost and I asked if people could swallow losing Raymond/Edvinsson/15th pick but you get Draisaitl on an extension...

Real toss up for me personally. I don't blame people for thinking Raymond/Edvinsson can be a lot more than they are now. Then again, you'd have Draisaitl, Larkin, Seider, Kasper, Danielson, Cossa, defensive prospects. IDK, to me it's not a gut job, but it's not a comfortable price either.

 

[Snuggs]

Dang it, McDavid show'd out! Oilers looked great, Draisaitl got his 100th playoff point.

Looks like they might take the series now.