Anson Carter unveils Alpharetta Sports and Entertainment looking to bring expansion team to Atlanta

[AintLifeGrand]

Kraus appears to be out based on the county’s unfavorable tax payer allotment ??

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Kraus appears to be out based on the county’s unfavorable tax payer allotment ??

Krause is far from out. He's just not thrilled with the last-second public negotiations from the county.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Krause is far from out. He's just not thrilled with the last-second public negotiations from the county.

didnt he get quoted as saying it changes the entire calculus and is unsure if he can proceed?

This is probably a blessing , as hopefully we can put the OTP arena location to bed and focus on an arena in downtown (hopefully the 3rd unnamed group)

 

[AtlantaHockeyFanatic]

When they fail yet again its gonna be pretty funny

Ownership group of the Thrashers didn't want the team, and did whatever it took to make them fail and move. But keep talking like you know what's going on.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

didnt he get quoted as saying it changes the entire calculus and is unsure if he can proceed?

Yeah, that doesn't mean he's out. He's just expressing he's pissed through the media.

This is probably a blessing , as hopefully we can put the OTP arena location to bed and focus on an arena in downtown (hopefully the 3rd unnamed group)

Returning to Downtown would be awful.

 

[yeaher]

Reminds me of Phoenix city is too big to support a team because the fans are too spread out, the only way to make it work is center the arena around the fans or downtown and hope for the best. They have already failed with the later, but I think the former will too. People in Marietta are like build the arena here no one wants to drive downtown, which is true, but no one wants to drive anywhere so there is no good option. Atlanta is bound to fail an NHL franchise again hopefully they give Quebec City the team after it fails in Atlanta, and someone puts a by law in that Atlanta is not for expansion ever again

 

[snag]

Ownership group of the Thrashers didn't want the team, and did whatever it took to make them fail and move. But keep talking like you know what's going on.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

This guy is dead.

Scratch him off then

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Reminds me of Phoenix city is too big to support a team because the fans are too spread out, the only way to make it work is center the arena around the fans or downtown and hope for the best. They have already failed with the later, but I think the former will too. People in Marietta are like build the arena here no one wants to drive downtown, which is true, but no one wants to drive anywhere so there is no good option. Atlanta is bound to fail an NHL franchise again hopefully they give Quebec City the team after it fails in Atlanta, and someone puts a by law in that Atlanta is not for expansion ever again

Nobody in QC is offering a $1 billion check, so QC is not even in the line for a franchise.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Reminds me of Phoenix city is too big to support a team because the fans are too spread out, the only way to make it work is center the arena around the fans or downtown and hope for the best. They have already failed with the later, but I think the former will too. People in Marietta are like build the arena here no one wants to drive downtown, which is true, but no one wants to drive anywhere so there is no good option. Atlanta is bound to fail an NHL franchise again hopefully they give Quebec City the team after it fails in Atlanta, and someone puts a by law in that Atlanta is not for expansion ever again

Wow, this was painful to read through.

I guess your take is Atlanta is bad market because of it being too sprawling? If that's true, then how are all the sports franchises (college and pro), located in different parts of the city, doing so well?

 

[rojac]

People bringing up places like QC and Hartford have to realize that the NHL likely never wanted either of those cities, but just took them to finally be rid of the WHA.

I think the NHL did kind of want Edmonton and Winnipeg because they filled a hole in their footprint and wouldn't really be competing with existing teams.

 

[yeaher]

Wow, this was painful to read through.

I guess your take is Atlanta is bad market because of it being too sprawling? If that's true, then how are all the sports franchises (college and pro), located in different parts of the city, doing so well?

No, Atlanta is a great market, but it doesn't have enough hockey fans go to the games. It's not like a decade ago we weren't talking about the same thing with the Trashers.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

No, Atlanta is a great market, but it doesn't have enough hockey fans go to the games. It's not like a decade ago we weren't talking about the same thing with the Trashers.

Many of the years the Thrashers were in Atlanta, they had higher attendance than many of the teams (would outdraw a few teams this year). The last couple years, attendance sank below 14K due to an ownership group that outwardly didn't want the team, kept them on the cap floor, and only having one playoff appearance in their entire history.

 

[The Nuge]

Cue all the jealous fans of O6 and Canadian teams whining "but relocated twice WAHHH HOW DARE THEY" even tho both times were forced by bad ownership rather than fan support, followed shortly thereafter by frustrated fans of Unapproved Teams making veiled comments about Winnipeg even though it's solid financially despite the overhyped attendance stuff and not going anywhere.

Except the fan support was just objectively crap. 13k is just not cutting it for supporting an NHL team.

Many of the years the Thrashers were in Atlanta, they had higher attendance than many of the teams (would outdraw a few teams this year). The last couple years, attendance sank below 14K due to an ownership group that outwardly didn't want the team, kept them on the cap floor, and only having one playoff appearance in their entire history.

Even their “good” years would have them bottom 5 in attendance the last few years. The best year they ever had in terms of attendance would have them 27th in attendance this year. It’s not just the last couple years they were there. Why put a team in a market that’s failed twice, and likely to be a threat to relocate right away, when you have more promising options?

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Except the fan support was just objectively crap. 13k is just not cutting it for supporting an NHL team.



Even their “good” years would have them bottom 5 in attendance the last few years. The best year they ever had in terms of attendance would have them 27th in attendance this year. It’s not just the last couple years they were there. Why put a team in a market that’s failed twice, and likely to be a threat to relocate right away, when you have more promising options?

Now do Winnipeg

 

[12ozPapa]

Except the fan support was just objectively crap. 13k is just not cutting it for supporting an NHL team.



Even their “good” years would have them bottom 5 in attendance the last few years. The best year they ever had in terms of attendance would have them 27th in attendance this year. It’s not just the last couple years they were there. Why put a team in a market that’s failed twice, and likely to be a threat to relocate right away, when you have more promising options?

So get rid of all the teams below 27th in attendance? Where’s the line? Is it sellouts every game or bust?

 

[The Nuge]

Now do Winnipeg

Please show me where I said anything about Winnipeg’s attendance being good? If it continues to decline, they’re going to be in trouble too.

So get rid of all the teams below 27th in attendance? Where’s the line? Is it sellouts every game or bust?

Well if the absolute best case scenario is that you’re beating out a couple bottom feeders going through a rebuild, it’s a bad sign. Once or twice, sure. But if you’re constantly hovering around 14k, then you end up like the Coyotes, where relocation is the constant discussion. There are markets that might actually support a team. Vegas and Seattle are getting 18k. That didn’t happen even a single season for the Thrashers. Try something new that might actually work out instead of wasting you’re time going “well it failed in the 70s/80s, and it failed again in the 90s/00s, but I’ve got a good feeling about it this time”.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Except the fan support was just objectively crap. 13k is just not cutting it for supporting an NHL team.

So you are saying Blackhawks and Bruins should have moved when they were drawing like crap?

What are we doing here man. If Thrashers iced Stanley Cup winning team and still drew like crap then yes you’d have a point. Don’t ever recall Thrashers ever being relevant on ice.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Except the fan support was just objectively crap. 13k is just not cutting it for supporting an NHL team.



Even their “good” years would have them bottom 5 in attendance the last few years. The best year they ever had in terms of attendance would have them 27th in attendance this year. It’s not just the last couple years they were there. Why put a team in a market that’s failed twice, and likely to be a threat to relocate right away, when you have more promising options?

Take another look. During their "good years" they were averaging between 15-16K regularly and most seasons, outdrew the Devils, Bruins, Caps, Jackets, Blackhawks, Islanders, Ducks, Hurricanes, Pens, and Preds (several years most of these at the same time).

The last few years was when Spirit Group bought the team. The year they bought the team, they averaged over 16K. EVERY year after, the attendance went down by about 1,000. Coincidence?? No.

I'm not saying they were breaking attendance records, but your take that hockey can't draw here is not a good one.

Well if the absolute best case scenario is that you’re beating out a couple bottom feeders going through a rebuild, it’s a bad sign. Once or twice, sure. But if you’re constantly hovering around 14k, then you end up like the Coyotes, where relocation is the constant discussion. There are markets that might actually support a team. Vegas and Seattle are getting 18k. That didn’t happen even a single season for the Thrashers. Try something new that might actually work out instead of wasting you’re time going “well it failed in the 70s/80s, and it failed again in the 90s/00s, but I’ve got a good feeling about it this time”.

Ah...so all those teams I just listed were just going through rebuilds (a lot longer than "once or twice" by the way), but the fact that the Thrashers only made the playoffs once in their entire history (and got swept) doesn't matter and fans just didn't care. Got it. The old double standard take.

And comparing Atlanta (or any major metro) in the 70's to today is laughable. And any Sunbelt market to even 10-15 years ago is not a close comparison either.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Does it? I feel like the difference between the league's best goalies and the league's worst goalies is closer than it's been at any point since the 1960s.

It's more there's a crisis of teams that can't develop goalies and those specific teams are upset versus there being any actual crisis.

This isn't like the NFL where there is an actual crisis in the offensive lineman area since the NCAA has been very subpar in developing them. lol.

Take another look. During their "good years" they were averaging between 15-16K regularly and most seasons, outdrew the Devils, Bruins, Caps, Blackhawks, Islanders, Ducks, Hurricanes, Pens, and Preds (several years at the same time).

The last few years was when Spirit Group bought the team. The year they bought the team, they averaged over 16K. EVERY year after, the attendance went down by about 1,000. Coincidence?? No.

I'm not saying they were breaking attendance records, but your take that hockey can't draw here is not a good one.

Ah...so all those teams I just listed were just going through rebuilds (a lot longer than "once or twice" by the way), but the fact that the Thrashers only made the playoffs once in their entire history (and got swept) doesn't matter and fans just didn't care. Got it. The old double standard take.

And comparing Atlanta (or any major metro) in the 70's to today is laughable. And any Sunbelt market to even 10-15 years ago is not a close comparison either.

Agreed with all of this. I have really come around on expansion and I welcome bringing in another 2-4 teams.

 

[Viqsi]

Please show me where I said anything about Winnipeg’s attendance being good? If it continues to decline, they’re going to be in trouble too.



Well if the absolute best case scenario is that you’re beating out a couple bottom feeders going through a rebuild, it’s a bad sign. Once or twice, sure. But if you’re constantly hovering around 14k, then you end up like the Coyotes, where relocation is the constant discussion. There are markets that might actually support a team. Vegas and Seattle are getting 18k. That didn’t happen even a single season for the Thrashers. Try something new that might actually work out instead of wasting you’re time going “well it failed in the 70s/80s, and it failed again in the 90s/00s, but I’ve got a good feeling about it this time”.

I remember this line of argument being consistently trotted out for both of my teams around the same time the Thrashers died. Thankfully, they didnt have owners deliberately sabotaging them to force a move (Balsillie's purchase attempt notwithstanding).

 

[AlainVigneaultsGum]

The demographics trend in Metro Atlanta area will ensure failure in the long term. Utah should be the next team.

What the f***

 

[Hunter Gathers]

The demographics trend in Metro Atlanta area will ensure failure in the long term. Utah should be the next team.

Yeah. Massive growth is always an indicator of failure.

Or was it something more . . . insidious that you're hinting at that you're probably not wanting to say out loud?