Confirmed with Link: Andlauer reaches deal for Ottawa Senators ownership

Senscore

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So if Green is getting a, let's say 'generous' salary, then why the four year term?


Why not two or something more reasonable? There's simply no possible way there was a bidding war with this guy.
 

Micklebot

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He's getting paid more than some of the worst paid coaches in the league. Congrats, I guess? Wasn't DJ's $1.5M salary the highest ever for a Sens coach? It still doesn't change the fact that we're probably in the bottom third for coach salaries in the league.
If that's what you want to take away from Andlauer expressing this was not a budget hire, and pointing out he's likely getting paid more than coaches is big markets, then fine.

Here's the thing though, Bednar, getting paid 2.25 mil this year, Montgomery, 2 mil, Bowness 2.5, Woodcroft was getting 2, Keefe was geting 1.95. No reason to believe we aren't in that range the way Andlauer talked about it, potentially higher given Green last got 2.75 from Vancouver, and that may have been the starting point from his perspective.
 

Flamingo

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He's getting paid more than some of the worst paid coaches in the league. Congrats, I guess? Wasn't DJ's $1.5M salary the highest ever for a Sens coach? It still doesn't change the fact that we're probably in the bottom third for coach salaries in the league.

The Senators still have the 2nd-lowest revenue in the NHL.

So if Green is getting a, let's say 'generous' salary, then why the four year term?


Why not two or something more reasonable? There's simply no possible way there was a bidding war with this guy.

In the Mendes interview, Andlauer's buy-out comments also mentioned coaches being released before their term was up, so I wouldn't stress out about the term.
 

Micklebot

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So if Green is getting a, let's say 'generous' salary, then why the four year term?


Why not two or something more reasonable? There's simply no possible way there was a bidding war with this guy.
Why is 4 years unreasonable?

If they have confidence in Green, then a longer contract gives them cost certainty, a 2 year deal might mean a higher starting point, and a big raise if he is successful.

It all comes to a risk reward decsion, the team likely has more confidence in Green than the fans do, so I understand why there might be some reservation about it, but it's not really that different than bridging a player vs giving them term, sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't
 

Micklebot

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The Senators still have the 2nd-lowest revenue in the NHL.
I wonder if that's still true, the latest Forbes numbers are still based of pre-Andlauer revenues, from what I understand, corporate sales went up significantly after the sale, and obviously the attendance has rebounded nicely as well.
In the Mendes interview, Andlauer's buy-out comments also mentioned coaches being released before their term was up, so I wouldn't stress out about the term.

Yeah, I don't get the hangup. Odds are very good Green isn't fired in year two, so if we did give a 2 year deal, you're likely giving him a 2+ year extension anyways. We started MacLean off with a 2 year deal, then gave him a 3 year extension only to fire him with a year an a half left on his contract. A 4 year deal isn't really that risky unless you expect to fire the guy in year 2.
 

bicboi64

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It's somewhat nice news that they offered Green something 'generous', not because I want Green, but it implies we aren't penny pinching with hirings and gives me some faith in management's ability to flex their wallet.

What I'd like to see next is signing bonuses in the event that we go whale hunting or sign a player to a multi-year contract. Doesn't have to be absurd like TML does, but just enough that we can offer a bit of financial incentive for players to come here (if signing bonuses are that important to them)
 

IpsoPostFacto

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So if Green is getting a, let's say 'generous' salary, then why the four year term?


Why not two or something more reasonable? There's simply no possible way there was a bidding war with this guy.
I don't think we have any idea if some team was offering say 3 years or not. If there were, then sens tack on a year to seal the deal if Green is the guy they want.

a discussion of 'is this the right guy' is more interesting than slicing the difference between 2 years or 4 years. There's no cap impact - or at least it doesn't count against the cap to be more accurate - and if the boss is comfortable with all of this then carry on.

I think what you are seeing here is a team admitting that the team is not close and at best, there is going to be a retool - and Green I'll bet Green knew this too. I don't think a coach takes a short deal with a rebuild unless they are really desperate, which perhaps Green is not.
 
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GCK

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I think Staois already said something about buyouts & that he didn’t think there would be any. I didn’t think Andlauer would step on or contradict what Staois said already. Of course, there will some thought to the idea that things will change or you can’t take everything at face value. But, that’s all we have for now with not a lot of support to think the opposite would be true.
Staios said he didn’t foresee any buyouts at the time of the PC. Hamonic and Forsberg are obvious candidates for buyout if other options to get them off the roster don’t materialize.
 

stempniaksen

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I'm not sure I'd read too much into Andlauer's comments that Green is the highest paid coach in Senators history because the bar is fairly low and coaches salaries have only really ballooned the last few years. And I wouldn't worry too much about the four year term given MA's comments about coaches being let go before their contracts are up.

I think the biggest thing to note is that the Sens brass liked him enough to offer a competitive salary AND term, clearly showing they support his vision for the club.

After hearing Green speak it does seem like the door wasn't completely shut in New Jersey so while many around here speculate the Senators were "negotiating against themselves" it could be a case where they needed to lure him away from the (potential) Devils gig a little bit and that some of the money/term was as a result of that.

As mentioned, he was also making $2.75M in Vancouver and while I wouldn't say that was the "bar" set by Green it does provide a glimpse into what he thought his value was based on recent history. Personally I'd be really surprised if he was making less than $2M/season based on all the tidbits we've gotten, which puts him in the same range as a lot of other successful coaches with only 1 or 2 stops on their resumes.

Staios said he didn’t foresee any buyouts at the time of the PC. Hamonic and Forsberg are obvious candidates for buyout if other options to get them off the roster don’t materialize.

They may have some insight that Hamonic can be LTIR'ed and that Forsberg can be flipped via trade with only one year remaining on his deal. I'll certainly be signing a different tune if they are both back for training camp, but for now I don't begrudge Staois for not tipping his hand on buy-outs. That comment could simply have been to temper expectations of a Korpisalo buy-out as it seems like they'll run him back for at least another year.
 
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Micklebot

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I don't think we have any idea if some team was offering say 3 years or not. If there were, then sens tack on a year to seal the deal if Green is the guy they want.

a discussion of 'is this the right guy' is more interesting than slicing the difference between 2 years or 4 years. There's no cap impact - or at least it doesn't count against the cap to be more accurate - and if the boss is comfortable with all of this then carry on.

I think what you are seeing here is a team admitting that the team is not close and at best, there is going to be a retool - and Green I'll bet Green knew this too. I don't think a coach takes a short deal with a rebuild unless they are really desperate, which perhaps Green is not.
There's a couple things a 4 year deal does.

1. Provides cost certainty (no big raise needed if he finds quick success).
2. Tells the players that this guy is sticking around and isn't just a trial coach
3. Tells the other potential assistant coaches that this should be a stable gig if they come here
4. helps shed the "cheap" label the team had under Melnyk.
5. Gives Green time to take the long approach towards success rather than worry about wins today at the expense of long term wins.

I also think there's some interesting discussion to be had in terms of how far this team is. A 4 year deal does suggest that Andlauer and Staios think it will take some time, but the question is, what is it, what is it that we are "far" away from?

I believe in Staios and Andlauer's eyes, "it" is being a contender, and challenging for the cup. Making the playoffs this year or not, wouldn't really make a difference in terms of how far we are. There's a lot work to be done on this teams consistency, and resiliency. that takes time to develop, it comes from experience, not talent. The team is talented, they are the opposite of experienced though.
 

The Devilish Buffoon

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So if Green is getting a, let's say 'generous' salary, then why the four year term?


Why not two or something more reasonable? There's simply no possible way there was a bidding war with this guy.
I would say there is no way possible that there wasn't outside pressure given reports that he was in serious consideration for the Kings & Kraken job
 

HoweHullOrr

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Staios said he didn’t foresee any buyouts at the time of the PC. Hamonic and Forsberg are obvious candidates for buyout if other options to get them off the roster don’t materialize.
Yes, the Staois statement was made at the year end press conference. That wasn’t that long ago, and the situation hasn’t really changed though. Whatever the conditions were then are still applicable now.

They might be able to move Forsberg you’d think. Korpisalo seems like the more obvious buy-out candidate though.
 

BankStreetParade

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If that's what you want to take away from Andlauer expressing this was not a budget hire, and pointing out he's likely getting paid more than coaches is big markets, then fine.

Here's the thing though, Bednar, getting paid 2.25 mil this year, Montgomery, 2 mil, Bowness 2.5, Woodcroft was getting 2, Keefe was geting 1.95. No reason to believe we aren't in that range the way Andlauer talked about it, potentially higher given Green last got 2.75 from Vancouver, and that may have been the starting point from his perspective.
My takeaway is that he could have given the number and didn't. Instead, he wants to dance around it with hypotheticals and a seriously pointless benchmark. "Highest paid coach in Sens history"...big f***ing whoop lol. I just don't understand why you're so eager to buy every single thing this guy says like it's gospel.
“This coach may very well be getting paid more than what they pay for a coach in a larger market."
The word may is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this quote. He won't say how much he's paying the coach but he's definitely possibly somewhat sure he's getting paid more than other guys are...LOL, what a bunch of bullshit. Larger market? Newsflash: almost every team in the league is a larger market than Ottawa. What does that even mean or matter? You guys spent years under the Melnyk regime pointing out how successful teams spend a lot across their hockey ops. But now the new guy starts signalling that he won't spend that much and you guys are ready to forget everything you believed.

Bednar's new contract kicks in next season at $4.75M. DeBoer makes $4.25M. Maurice makes $3.9M. St. Louis makes $3M. Laviolette makes $4.9M. Tortorella $4M. Sullivan $5.5M. Cassidy $4.5M. McLennan got $5M per. Cooper started a new contract after b2b cups, so he got paid. I'm really supposed to believe Green is getting paid on par with those guys?

It doesn't even matter anyway. All we have is an incomplete dataset to even roughly estimate which tier of pay the new coach falls into. If he wanted to be forthright about this whole thing, he could have given the salary and that would be the end of it, let the fans decide for themselves.
 

Micklebot

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My takeaway is that he could have given the number and didn't. Instead, he wants to dance around it with hypotheticals and a seriously pointless benchmark. "Highest paid coach in Sens history"...big f***ing whoop lol. I just don't understand why you're so eager to buy every single thing this guy says like it's gospel.

The word may is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this quote. He won't say how much he's paying the coach but he's definitely possibly somewhat sure he's getting paid more than other guys are...LOL, what a bunch of bullshit. Larger market? Newsflash: almost every team in the league is a larger market than Ottawa. What does that even mean or matter? You guys spent years under the Melnyk regime pointing out how successful teams spend a lot across their hockey ops. But now the new guy starts signalling that he won't spend that much and you guys are ready to forget everything you believed.

Bednar's new contract kicks in next season at $4.75M. DeBoer makes $4.25M. Maurice makes $3.9M. St. Louis makes $3M. Laviolette makes $4.9M. Tortorella $4M. Sullivan $5.5M. Cassidy $4.5M. McLennan got $5M per. Cooper started a new contract after b2b cups, so he got paid. I'm really supposed to believe Green is getting paid on par with those guys?

It doesn't even matter anyway. All we have is an incomplete dataset to even roughly estimate which tier of pay the new coach falls into. If he wanted to be forthright about this whole thing, he could have given the salary and that would be the end of it, let the fans decide for themselves.
Jeez, once again, you're searching for reasons to complain,

Most teams actually don't disclose coaches full terms, I'm sure you probably noticed that when you went to cap friendly so that you could spout of some of the highest paid coaches, so not sure why you feel entitled to know exactly how much Green gets. It seems enough to know that he is paying a competitive rate, no?

He's on his initial contract, so no, he didn't get the big raise a guy like Cooper did after two cups, or Bednar is about to get, but it sounds like he will get a competitive salary based on what Andlauer shared, unless of course you think Andlauer is trying to misrepresent the situation, which seems like quite the assumption to make about a guy who's been here 7 months.
 
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GCK

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Yes, the Staois statement was made at the year end press conference. That wasn’t that long ago, and the situation hasn’t really changed though. Whatever the conditions were then are still applicable now.

They might be able to move Forsberg you’d think. Korpisalo seems like the more obvious buy-out candidate though.
I don't think there is any chance that Korpisalo is bought out. An 8 year dead money cap hit is brutal, I think Forsberg is replaced by someone who the org thinks can play 40-50 games and Korpisalo is asked to contribute for the rest.
 

GCK

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My takeaway is that he could have given the number and didn't. Instead, he wants to dance around it with hypotheticals and a seriously pointless benchmark. "Highest paid coach in Sens history"...big f***ing whoop lol. I just don't understand why you're so eager to buy every single thing this guy says like it's gospel.

The word may is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this quote. He won't say how much he's paying the coach but he's definitely possibly somewhat sure he's getting paid more than other guys are...LOL, what a bunch of bullshit. Larger market? Newsflash: almost every team in the league is a larger market than Ottawa. What does that even mean or matter? You guys spent years under the Melnyk regime pointing out how successful teams spend a lot across their hockey ops. But now the new guy starts signalling that he won't spend that much and you guys are ready to forget everything you believed.

Bednar's new contract kicks in next season at $4.75M. DeBoer makes $4.25M. Maurice makes $3.9M. St. Louis makes $3M. Laviolette makes $4.9M. Tortorella $4M. Sullivan $5.5M. Cassidy $4.5M. McLennan got $5M per. Cooper started a new contract after b2b cups, so he got paid. I'm really supposed to believe Green is getting paid on par with those guys?

It doesn't even matter anyway. All we have is an incomplete dataset to even roughly estimate which tier of pay the new coach falls into. If he wanted to be forthright about this whole thing, he could have given the salary and that would be the end of it, let the fans decide for themselves.
What are you missing ? Andlauer has already grown hockey ops and he's only owned the team for about 8 months.

I don't know where you get the nonsense that he has signaled that he won't spend that much. Can you provide a quote or some evidence.
 

Loach

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Jun 9, 2021
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There's a couple things a 4 year deal does.

1. Provides cost certainty (no big raise needed if he finds quick success).
2. Tells the players that this guy is sticking around and isn't just a trial coach
3. Tells the other potential assistant coaches that this should be a stable gig if they come here
4. helps shed the "cheap" label the team had under Melnyk.
5. Gives Green time to take the long approach towards success rather than worry about wins today at the expense of long term wins.

I also think there's some interesting discussion to be had in terms of how far this team is. A 4 year deal does suggest that Andlauer and Staios think it will take some time, but the question is, what is it, what is it that we are "far" away from?

I believe in Staios and Andlauer's eyes, "it" is being a contender, and challenging for the cup. Making the playoffs this year or not, wouldn't really make a difference in terms of how far we are. There's a lot work to be done on this teams consistency, and resiliency. that takes time to develop, it comes from experience, not talent. The team is talented, they are the opposite of experienced though.
Great post. #5 and the paragraph after it are bang on.
 

BankStreetParade

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I suspect the sentence above explains your “interpretation” (and motivation of course) of what was said in the subject article.
That we should have the same standards and critiques for all people at all levels of this team? Or you don't give so much of a shit about that anymore?
Jeez, once again, you're searching for reasons to complain,

Most teams actually don't disclose coaches full terms, I'm sure you probably noticed that when you went to cap friendly so that you could spout of some of the highest paid coaches, so not sure why you feel entitled to know exactly how much Green gets. It seems enough to know that he is paying a competitive rate, no?

He's on his initial contract, so no, he didn't get the big raise a guy like Cooper did after two cups, or Bednar is about to get, but it sounds like he will get a competitive salary based on what Andlauer shared, unless of course you think Andlauer is trying to misrepresent the situation, which seems like quite the assumption to make about a guy who's been here 7 months.
LOL searching for reasons to complain...it's honestly beyond comprehension the lengths you'll go to carry water for these guys. I can tell you one thing, I don't feel entitled to anything with this team. But if you're someone who's sniffing out the bullshit, it stands out when the owner tells you they're going to be "best in class" but won't say how much they pay the coach, while only offering some wishy washy hypotheticals that can't be substantiated. If he wasn't worried about the perception of who they hired and how much they're paying him, he would have given a real figure. Anyway, carry on believing what you wanna believe, it makes no difference to me.
 

GCK

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That we should have the same standards and critiques for all people at all levels of this team? Or you don't give so much of a shit about that anymore?

LOL searching for reasons to complain...it's honestly beyond comprehension the lengths you'll go to carry water for these guys. I can tell you one thing, I don't feel entitled to anything with this team. But if you're someone who's sniffing out the bullshit, it stands out when the owner tells you they're going to be "best in class" but won't say how much they pay the coach, while only offering some wishy washy hypotheticals that can't be substantiated. If he wasn't worried about the perception of who they hired and how much they're paying him, he would have given a real figure. Anyway, carry on believing what you wanna believe, it makes no difference to me.
I think we all see what you are trying to do. Perhaps you should just change your username and you won't have to wear all the justifications you gave for Dorion and Melnyk and can just have normal discussions without worrying about hypocrisy.
 

Micklebot

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That we should have the same standards and critiques for all people at all levels of this team? Or you don't give so much of a shit about that anymore?

LOL searching for reasons to complain...it's honestly beyond comprehension the lengths you'll go to carry water for these guys. I can tell you one thing, I don't feel entitled to anything with this team. But if you're someone who's sniffing out the bullshit, it stands out when the owner tells you they're going to be "best in class" but won't say how much they pay the coach, while only offering some wishy washy hypotheticals that can't be substantiated. If he wasn't worried about the perception of who they hired and how much they're paying him, he would have given a real figure. Anyway, carry on believing what you wanna believe, it makes no difference to me.

The irony here given your posting history during the Dorion days is a bit much.

It's pretty clear here that you are primed to assume the worst. I'm not carrying the water to point out that based on Andlauer's comments, Green is being paid around the 2-mil mark, give or take, and showing what team's that comparable to. I even pointed out which teams it's not comparable to in the Green thread. What I'm doing is providing what I consider an even keeled approach to the hire, I'm in the wait and see how he turns out camp, the don't assume we hired him purely as a budget move, but rather because the org identified him as having the attributes we sought for where the team currently is. I'm in the camp of giving the new ownership and management group the benefit of the doubt until they provide a reason not to. That means I acknowledge that they are spending more than we have in the past and shoring up positions like the Analytics department, and fitness director, rather than whine that they aren't giving me the exact figures of the coaches contract.

But sure, I'll carry on while you do whatever it is you call what you're doing....
 

JimmyApples

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I’m sure, similar to players salary, coaching salary goes up and up. If you compare to Green’s salary to his peers, I’m sure Bryan Murray was higher paid relative to his peers in 2006.

There’s no way Green is making a high salary, and 4 years term. Not even shitting on the guy, just doesn’t make sense.
 

Micklebot

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I’m sure, similar to players salary, coaching salary goes up and up. If you compare to Green’s salary to his peers, I’m sure Bryan Murray was higher paid relative to his peers in 2006.

There’s no way Green is making a high salary, and 4 years term. Not even shitting on the guy, just doesn’t make sense.
Based on what we've seen, it sounds like he's probably between 2 and 3, nobody is suggesting he's at the top of the current coaches which tends to be 4-5 mil, all that was suggested is based on Andlauer's comments, he was not a budget driven hire.

I look at Rick Tochett as a comparable for Green's hire, both went to canadian markets (taxes...) both had about the same amount of experience, Tochett had 438 games as a head coach in the NHL with about a .475 pts %, plus another 6 years as an assistant. Green had 335 games as a head coach in the NHL with about a .475 pts %, plus 4 years as a HC in the AHL, and another year in the WHL as HC. Tochett commanded a 3 year 2.75 mil contract, Green got 4 years, probably at a touch less because he got more term.
 
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HoweHullOrr

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I don't think there is any chance that Korpisalo is bought out. An 8 year dead money cap hit is brutal, I think Forsberg is replaced by someone who the org thinks can play 40-50 games and Korpisalo is asked to contribute for the rest.
Yes, they may not want to buy out the Korpse. They may go with a 1a/1b situation and then eventually give the hot hand a bigger percentage of games. Part of the thinking of my previous post was reflecting on this boards sentiments and who the most ire is directed against.
 
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