Anatoli Firsov- A video study

[Batis]

That's really the biggest difference between modern Russian stars and the 60s, 70s and 80s guys.

Those guys were pretty much universally all-around players, top guys included. They had to be, otherwise they wouldn't play.

Yes I would definitely agree that the defensive ability among Russian players on average has decreased since the fall of the Soviet Union.

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Great player and great work

 

[MaxV]

You guys might disagree and they played different positions, but watching these videos I'm reminded of Pavel Datsyuk.

 

[Namba 17]

Awesome job, Batis!

 

[Canadiens1958]

Great Contribution

Great contribution. Shows Firsov's offensive and defensive attributes as well as the advantages that a skilled RHS enjoyed playing LW on the wide Olympic sized rink.

 

[DN28]

Excellent work Batis! This made me to appreciate Firsov even more.
Thank you for posting it.

 

[GMR]

Yes I would definitely agree that the defensive ability among Russian players on average has decreased since the fall of the Soviet Union.

That's definitely true for wingers, as seemingly every Russian winger in the NHL has been accused of being lazy defensively.

Not so much for centermen. Datsyuk and Fedorov are two of the best defensive forwards in NHL history. Larionov always played hard defensively. But then there's guys like Malkin and Yashin too, so maybe you're right across the board.

 

[Batis]

You guys might disagree and they played different positions, but watching these videos I'm reminded of Pavel Datsyuk.

Yes it is definitely possible to see some similarities stylewise. Firsovs ability to use his stickhandling both offensively to make great plays and defensively to steal the puck is in my opinion very similar to what we have seen from Datsyuk.

Great player and great work

Awesome job, Batis!

Great contribution. Shows Firsov's offensive and defensive attributes as well as the advantages that a skilled RHS enjoyed playing LW on the wide Olympic sized rink.

Excellent work Batis! This made me to appreciate Firsov even more.
Thank you for posting it.

Thank you. I am glad to hear that you enjoyed it.

 

[Batis]

Some additional thoughts. While Firsov was a great player during the entire time frame covered by this study (1964-1970) the eye test tells me that his absolute peak as a player probably was in 1967 and 1968. This is also supported by him being the runaway leader in the all-star voting among forwards during those tournaments. 1968 was also Firsovs strongest year in the Soviet player of the year voting where he ended up with a voting share of 89.5 percent. During his other two wins in the Soviet player of the year voting Firsov got voting shares of 41.2 percent in 1969 and 64.2 percent in 1971. Unfortunately the award had not been created yet in 1967 so we dont know how Firsov would have done in the voting that year. But considering how similar Firsovs 66/67 season was to his 67/68 season when it comes to achievements it seems very likely that Firsov could have recieved similar voting support in a hypothetical Soviet player of the year voting in 1967 as he did in 1968.

And it was not only Firsov who played at a very high level during the 1967 WHC and the 1968 Olympics but the entire line (Firsov-Polupanov-Vikulov) had some really impressive performances in those tournaments. In the excellent Anatoli Firsov bio in the Twenty years of Soviet Hockey: 1962-1982 thread there is a quote from Tarasov where he describes the influence that Firsov had on Vikulov and Polupanov.

Later, when we put seventeen year old Vladimir Vikulov and Victor Polupanov on his line, Firsov's influence on them was so great that the young line managed to become the top line, first at CSKA, and then on the national team.

Anatoli was, of course, the leader, but in the process, Vikulov developed many subtle tactics, and Polupanov progressed as a goal scorer. Whoever had the benefit of playing with Firsov began to shine as never before.

 

[Batis]

One thing that I forgot to bring up is that Firsov during these games more often than I had expected seemed to get under the skin of his opponents or get upset himself. So he seems to have had at least somewhat of a temper. I had not really paid attention to this earlier while watching Firsov and it somewhat surprised me after having read the following quote from Tarasov. The quote comes from the bio in the Twenty years of Soviet Hockey thread. http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=98921409&postcount=97

I cannot picture Anatoli Firsov without a smile on his face – clear, open, but with a slight frown. This thing - this Firsovite smile - put everyone around him in a good mood. But not all – for Anatoli's opponents it meant a bad mood. Not only did the great forward beat them, but he smiled while doing so. And when his opponent became angry while trying to keep up with Firsov and finally fouled him, Anatoli could – with the same smile on his face – pat him on the shoulder as if to say: go have a rest…and so many had to "have a rest" in this way, including the best international players in the world.

So I guess that I kind of expected Firsov to get under the skin of his opponents from time to time but I was somewhat surprised by that he seemed to have abit of a temper himself on the ice. I would still take Tarasovs word on the smiling Firsov ahead of what some situations during 11 games worth of footage tells us but at least these situations shows that the smile sometimes seems to have changed to a more serious facial expression. Here we have some examples of this.

First Firsov gets hit by Lars-Erik Sjöberg and then he makes some kind of slewfoot move against Ulf Sterner. Sterner is not pleased and while I am no lip-reader it seems pretty clear what Sterner tells Firsov at around 1:40:09. The Soviet coaching staff does not seem too pleased with Firsovs behaviour here either and takes him off the ice right after this while his linemates remain on the ice.

At the end of the game between USSR and West Germany Firsov gets into some pushing after a board battle.


Here is a situation when the tempers run high during the USSR-CSSR game from 1967. At first it looks like Firsov is just trying to keep the situation from escalating but then he and Stanislav Pryl? starts pushing. We dont see exactly what happens after that because the camera angle changes but when the camera returns to them Pryl has ended up on his back. Now Firsov was not exactly the main aggressor during this situation (Ragulin clearly was) but still he got involved.

 

[Batis]

Nothing major but abit of irritation after the whistle.


Here Firsov gets upset when the face-off is moved further into the Soviet zone.


After this (already posted) great rush from Firsov the swedish player Thommy Abrahamsson gets very upset with Firsov and takes him down pretty roughly in front of the net. Firsov gave Abrahamsson a little bump just before but perhaps this is an example of what Tarasov was talking about regarding that Firsovs opponents at times got upset while trying to keep up with him and his "Firsovite smile".

 

[Talisman]

great job!!. is there any video material of Firsov and Kharlamov playing together?. to me it would interesting to see how these legends combine!!.

edit. To bad That great player Firsov missed the summit series...:/.

 

[Batis]

great job!!. is there any video material of Firsov and Kharlamov playing together?. to me it would interesting to see how these legends combine!!.

edit. To bad That great player Firsov missed the summit series...:/.

Thanks. As far as I remember the only times that Firsov and Kharlamov were on the ice together was during powerplays at the 1969 WHC. In that tournament Firsov often played on the point during the powerplays which meant that Kharlamov and Firsov could be on the ice together. Here are some examples of when Firsov and Kharlamov combined on the powerplay.

Here Firsov, Kharlamov and Maltsev combines and almost scores on the powerplay.


During this powerplay shift Firsov and Kharlamov combines with each other a couple of times.


Here they also combine a couple of times on the powerplay.


Note: Kharlamov was wearing number 12 during the 1969 WHC.

Firsov and Kharlamov were also linemates during one season (71/72) when Firsov played center on a line with Kharlamov at LW and Vikulov at RW. That line was the highest scoring line in the Soviet League that year as they combined for 78 goals. They were also the most productive line at the 1972 Olympics where they also only were on the ice for 1 goal against during the entire tournament. Unfortunately it does not exist much footage of that line playing together as far as I know.

 

[Sentinel]

Yes, it's a real shame Firsov's temper essentially kept him out of the 72 series. This is the Soviet answer to the Canada's "Bobby Hull" argument.

Batis, can you combine some of these moments into a single highlight reel video for Firsov? I will provide the music

 

[Talisman]

Thanks. As far as I remember the only times that Firsov and Kharlamov were on the ice together was during powerplays at the 1969 WHC. In that tournament Firsov often played on the point during the powerplays which meant that Kharlamov and Firsov could be on the ice together. Here are some examples of when Firsov and Kharlamov combined on the powerplay.

Here Firsov, Kharlamov and Maltsev combines and almost scores on the powerplay. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPFE1Q-r0hI&t=104m44s

During this powerplay shift Firsov and Kharlamov combines with each other a couple of times. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28mLLsfVM8E&t=9m24s

Here they also combine a couple of times on the powerplay. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPFE1Q-r0hI&t=69m15s

Note: Kharlamov was wearing number 12 during the 1969 WHC.

Firsov and Kharlamov were also linemates during one season (71/72) when Firsov played center on a line with Kharlamov at LW and Vikulov at RW. That line was the highest scoring line in the Soviet League that year as they combined for 78 goals. They were also the most productive line at the 1972 Olympics where they also only were on the ice for 1 goal against during the entire tournament. Unfortunately it does not exist much footage of that line playing together as far as I know.

thanx. many times i have been searching some footage of great #11 and #17 playing together on with vikulov...... sapporo 1972 footage would be avesome to find somewhere!!

 

[Batis]

Batis, can you combine some of these moments into a single highlight reel video for Firsov? I will provide the music

Yes I can do that. It may take some time though as I will be more busy these coming weeks. And as I have never made a compilation video before I cant guarantee any quality result either. Yes I really liked your choice of music for the Makarov video that you made so you can definitely be in charge of the music

 

[MaxV]

There is a Russian documentary about Firsov on YouTube, I'll post it later. He reveals a lot of stuff during the interview, I'll post a summary later.

One thing that I remember from it is that, although he doesn't say it, he seems genuinely saddened that he didn't participate in Summit Series.

 

[Batis]

There is a Russian documentary about Firsov on YouTube, I'll post it later. He reveals a lot of stuff during the interview, I'll post a summary later.

Sounds great. Really looking forward to that post.

 

[MaxV]

Here is the link.



Some stuff from it:

- Spend time as coach in Poland after playing career. I didn't know that.
- Feels slighted by Russian people. Seems to him that they have forgotten him. Says that people in other countries appreciate him more. Tells a story that he went to Czech Republic and was recognized by a goat herder.
- "Nobody trained like Firsov" according to Tarasov.
- Grew up without a father, Tarasov was that father figure for him.
- According to Tarasov, it was a tough decision to make Firsov into a Center.
- I was wrong, he actually says that he regrets not playing vs pros in '72.
- Says his son traveled for a youth tournament to Canada and claims that they told him that it's too bad that his father couldn't play in '72.
- When asked how he would have played, he says that he isn't sure, but doesn't think that he would have played badly.
- He thought that he was going to take over Tarasov's youth school but Tikhonov had other ideas. They put him into some useless department and made him into an "errand boy." Claims that this was the worst part of his life. Claims that during this period he fell into a depression and developed a bit of drinking problem.
- Documentary ends with him saying "you need to find your own inner strength."

 

[Sentinel]

* Tarasov: "Nobody trained like Firsov. Not even Kharlamov, who often stayed after practices to train some more. But nobody -- nobody! -- trained like Firsov. When Yuri Vlasov, the weightlifting champion, saw what Firsov does with the weights, he walked up to him and asked: "Are you alive?""

* "If the opponents treated me fairly, I never touched them. But if they played dirty, I always kept my stick on the level of their teeth" (cross-checking motion)

 

[Batis]

Thank you so much for these translations MaxV and Sentinel. Great stuff. The documentary had some really nice footage too. Thank you for posting it.

 

[Fantomas]

Great thread. An interesting undertaking would be to turn this into a video by combing the clips.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Heh, one can only imagine what a star Firsov could become in the NHL. Probably one of few Europeans of 60s, who could come to the NHL and immediately get on any team's roster. Considering his work ethic, he could probably play on any line, from 1st to 3rd (arair, they didn't have 4-line rosters back to then).

 

[Batis]

Before starting to work on making the video I decided to look for some more highlights of Firsov on youtube and this is what I came up with. Some of it is from the excellent Firsov documentary that MaxV posted.

Nice assist to Polupanov against Sweden.

Another nice assist this time against Spartak Moscow during the 68/69 season.

Great goal from behind the net.

 

[Batis]

Nice goal against Czechoslovakia.


Scores against Czechoslovakia during the 1972 Olympics with a slapshot.


Scores against Sweden. In the next clip Firsov shows some great skating.