You have to put the people somewhere? At 5 times the people, you could expect 45KM instead of half that amount, which it is.
An Anti-Attendance Thread: Info on Gate Receipts
- Thread starter MAROONSRoad
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You have to put the people somewhere? At 5 times the people, you could expect 45KM instead of half that amount, which it is.
Sorry Falconer, I was on your side until now. How do you get Carolina and Stuggle when their attendance and paid attendance has always been well above Atlanta?
I have been to both cities and Atlanta should look at Raleigh/Triangle as a place to get to instead of looking down on them. Again, I have been to hockey in both and Atlanta has a ways to go even before the cup win in Carolina.
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I don't know anything about the oil industry. I was under the impression that certain types of oil extraction technology were only profitable if oil prices remained above a certain price point on the market. But if you say the oil economy is more robust I'll take your word for it.
The other thing about corporate support is that many of the Atlanta corporations like UPS, Home Depot, Chick-fil-a sell are very oreinted toward selling consumer products that benefit from constant advertising. Let's say you make oil equipment--I'm not sure that buying board ads in EDM will be prove that useful to you, but if you sell chicken sandwiches, airplane tickets or hammers it probably is useful to buy those spots.
I'll stick to my original point that Atlanta is such a huge market that it has great long term potential. For example, today's paper reports that the US Census that Atlanta region has gained 890,000 people just since the year 2000. That's just crazy growth. That is the equivalent of City of Edmonton moving into the Atlanta metro area since the year 2000.
You're welcome to disagree of course.
According to ESPN.com Carolina ranks 15th in average number of tickets distributed per game and just 18th in capacity filled per game (note I didn't use the word sold in either case).
Honestly, I would hope to do better than that if I were an owner. Winning the Cup is as good as it gets, I'd be worried about next season's numbers after missing the playoffs. I think that CAR and NAS both will struggle with the fact that they have a smaller base to build upon than places like ATL, DAL, PHO, TB. I'm not saying it can't work, but the owner better be willing to lose money while building up the fan base.
I think it would be best for you to worry about Atlanta before jetting Atlanta into Super Stardom Hockey market, no matter what the population is.
how many skating rinks in atlanta? i'll go on a limb and say winnipeg has more skating facilities(not including outdoor) than atlanta,nashville,and carolina combined.
you guys gotta look at the whole picture. to sell something there has to be buyers. winnipeg BREEDS hockey fans.so all of the promoting cash spent in atlanta,nashville,etc. would not be needed in winnipeg.
i have lived in a few places.(allentown pa,southern connecticut, long island,winnipeg) i have played hockey everywhere i lived.if you come to the peg and can honestly tell me that it is not a "hockey town". then you are not being honest.
yes such a thing exists. and winnipeg is one.atlanta i'm going to guess is NOT.
and in today's winnipeg sun 9 pages of nhl coverage.and two pages of ahl/minor hockey.
how was it in the atlanta papers(...and they HAVE a team in the playoffs..)i'm curious.
how was it in the atlanta papers(...and they HAVE a team in the playoffs..)i'm curious.
Sotnos
Registered User
Even if you don't know the local papers name, Google search: Atlanta newspaper. Go check out the results and see for yourself, not too difficult I assure you.
What? You weren't really interested and just wanted to blow your own horn? That figures.
What? You weren't really interested and just wanted to blow your own horn? That figures.
Ted Hoffman
The other Rick Zombo
- Dec 15, 2002
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Timmy
Registered User
- Feb 2, 2005
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Nicely done.
I agree.
The Apologists have had to resort to using their power to silence the issues they don't want to believe, like bad attendance and bad tv ratings. That says to me all I need to know about this "financial" board.
Keep on drinking the kool-aid Bettmanites !!
Hawker out.
Timmy
Registered User
- Feb 2, 2005
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Either that, or some people on these boards respect the fans who post here, regardless of the market their team's in, and have no desire to see their team relocated, but would rather hockey make inroads in hitherto "non-traditional" regions.
I'm all for folks being proponents of the NHL expanding into their own market, regardless of whether the city they support is Canadian or American; but when the word "deserve" starts getting thrown into peoples' faces here, or attendance figures are cherry-picked in order to rationalize ripping a team out of a market, I cringe.
Whether I feel that the expansions that occurred were good or not, or whether or not I think that other decisions by Bettman and the BoG, both hockey and financial, were good or not, does not change the fact that as hockey fans we are a small group of dedicated fans. We need to try to help each other, whether they're a Blackhawks fan or a Predators fan. To not do so would be the equivalent of the two dumbest people in school copying off each other in an exam.
Hockey is a wonderful sport that needs to be nurtured wherever it has landed, traditional market or not. I'm not saying the League has made all the right moves in doing this nurturing, but I am saying that the fans of new and old teams alike should be treated with respect for following a sport that may be new to them, for having their team abused by a bad owner, or for being in a minority in certain markets where other sports are bigger.
For anyone to say that they deserve a team at the expense of another team's fans is simply wrong.
What epitomizes the problem with the NHL is the Caps.
The NHL never should have expanded to most of the non traditional markets.
Not only do these teams not draw, have no ratings, but the times when fans do show up it's usually as non paying for other reasons.
Take Cap games, when they drew this season it was due to unlimited college tickets, 21 dollars for a ticket and a full, not slice, pizza.
Two for one seats and 50 dollar lower level seats AND golf lessons from a pro.
They either have no fans or people coming for pizza, beer, and golf.
What makes Washington bad though is unlike other towns, not only do they not support a winner, but you wouldn't want to root for their owner of the team.
Those few people they as fans are some of the most immature, self denying out there.
They lack dignity and have a far flong inferior complex.
Example, I go to Boston to root for the Rangers, no problems.
In Washington after 30 years they do not know hockey, all they know how to do is make gritty faces at you if you wear another jersey, that;s all they have is immaturity.
To me they should move, because if they ever become a good team the fans and town do not deserve it.
If they at least had class and didn't act like babies, they go to games either to root for the road team or root against the road team and get pizza, not to watch hockey, never have.
I won't forget their owner complaining when played the Pens in the playoffs about PIT fans showing up, trying to not let them buy tickets, they still got in, and then when he didn't play PIT in the playoffs he didn't sell out, he had 4K empty seats, was crying, and blaming the scheduling on Easter.
After 30 years all they have is excuses, this is what is wrong with the hockey, it being in towns like this.
Sorry for this but I am fed up with these illegite towns.
The NHL never should have expanded to most of the non traditional markets.
Not only do these teams not draw, have no ratings, but the times when fans do show up it's usually as non paying for other reasons.
Take Cap games, when they drew this season it was due to unlimited college tickets, 21 dollars for a ticket and a full, not slice, pizza.
Two for one seats and 50 dollar lower level seats AND golf lessons from a pro.
They either have no fans or people coming for pizza, beer, and golf.
What makes Washington bad though is unlike other towns, not only do they not support a winner, but you wouldn't want to root for their owner of the team.
Those few people they as fans are some of the most immature, self denying out there.
They lack dignity and have a far flong inferior complex.
Example, I go to Boston to root for the Rangers, no problems.
In Washington after 30 years they do not know hockey, all they know how to do is make gritty faces at you if you wear another jersey, that;s all they have is immaturity.
To me they should move, because if they ever become a good team the fans and town do not deserve it.
If they at least had class and didn't act like babies, they go to games either to root for the road team or root against the road team and get pizza, not to watch hockey, never have.
I won't forget their owner complaining when played the Pens in the playoffs about PIT fans showing up, trying to not let them buy tickets, they still got in, and then when he didn't play PIT in the playoffs he didn't sell out, he had 4K empty seats, was crying, and blaming the scheduling on Easter.
After 30 years all they have is excuses, this is what is wrong with the hockey, it being in towns like this.
Sorry for this but I am fed up with these illegite towns.
Ted Hoffman
The other Rick Zombo
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,264
- 8,693
So .... maybe this isn't the forum for you - because as I said, we're not having "bash a given market/team" discussions any longer.
That was the first and last you'll hear of that nature, just had to get it out, thanks.
The book burnings have been delayed. It seems like some of my fellow Canadian "hockey fans" from certain various "hockey towns" have used up all the matches and kindling in their ongoing attempt to burn certain supposed "non-traditional markets" - and their fans by extension - at the stake. As a result, supplies are limited.
Wow some guys need to relax and actually look at the facts. Now what Falconer is saying and this is something I agree with is Atlanta has an economy slightly larger than all of Alberta and with that much money and several large corporations there is always money to support the team. Not to mention that over time it can gain popularity and therefore translate into a huge market. Yes the Thrashers have competition but there is enough money and people around to make things a sucess.
Now Falconer what is missed is that like Atlanta, Edmonton is also booming. It has a rapidly growing corporate base and a rabid fanbase. Now for those who don't know, the Edmonton Metro is a third of Alberta. So the fanbase in Edmonton is very wealthy, rapidly growing population and are huge hockey fans. I would not even compare the 2 markets as they are significantly different. This however does not prevent any of the 2 markets from being wildly successful, but each has to get there in a different manner.
For people in some cities who question Atlanta being a good market consider this? It is a rapidly growing market with a large economy. I believe in terms of economy and population it would be similar to Toronto. Not saying that this would happen but if Atlanta has a love affair with the Thrashers like Toronto with the Leafs than LOOK OUT. It would be absolutly huge as unlike New York which has 3 teams in the area, the Thrashers do not share the market with another team. Edmonton is significantly smaller but booming like them but has the fan support like the Leafs. If Edmonton continues to boom, which it is predicted to do for teh foreseeable future then it will be another huge market for the NHL and it already is a market paying into revenue sharing.
For people who bring up Winnipeg or Kansas City etc or any other city for that matter, consider that the growth of Atlanta vs their market which is significantly smaller and growing much slower. Then consider Winnipeg or Kansas City vs Edmonton. Edmonton is larger than Winnipeg and growing much more rapidly and significantly richer. Edmonton is also growing faster than Kansas City and is significantly wealther population who are more rabid hockey fans. You must be better or equal in both the short term and long term. If your market is unable to produce similar long term forcasts then you are out of luck as much as I would love to see a team in Winnipeg as they have very passionate fans (its been more than a decade now and look how much they long for the Jets). Atlanta provides better long term results than say Winnipeg. Anyways enough about that as I do not like debate which market is better.
Now Falconer what is missed is that like Atlanta, Edmonton is also booming. It has a rapidly growing corporate base and a rabid fanbase. Now for those who don't know, the Edmonton Metro is a third of Alberta. So the fanbase in Edmonton is very wealthy, rapidly growing population and are huge hockey fans. I would not even compare the 2 markets as they are significantly different. This however does not prevent any of the 2 markets from being wildly successful, but each has to get there in a different manner.
For people in some cities who question Atlanta being a good market consider this? It is a rapidly growing market with a large economy. I believe in terms of economy and population it would be similar to Toronto. Not saying that this would happen but if Atlanta has a love affair with the Thrashers like Toronto with the Leafs than LOOK OUT. It would be absolutly huge as unlike New York which has 3 teams in the area, the Thrashers do not share the market with another team. Edmonton is significantly smaller but booming like them but has the fan support like the Leafs. If Edmonton continues to boom, which it is predicted to do for teh foreseeable future then it will be another huge market for the NHL and it already is a market paying into revenue sharing.
For people who bring up Winnipeg or Kansas City etc or any other city for that matter, consider that the growth of Atlanta vs their market which is significantly smaller and growing much slower. Then consider Winnipeg or Kansas City vs Edmonton. Edmonton is larger than Winnipeg and growing much more rapidly and significantly richer. Edmonton is also growing faster than Kansas City and is significantly wealther population who are more rabid hockey fans. You must be better or equal in both the short term and long term. If your market is unable to produce similar long term forcasts then you are out of luck as much as I would love to see a team in Winnipeg as they have very passionate fans (its been more than a decade now and look how much they long for the Jets). Atlanta provides better long term results than say Winnipeg. Anyways enough about that as I do not like debate which market is better.
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Ted Hoffman
The other Rick Zombo
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,264
- 8,693
Ted Hoffman
The other Rick Zombo
- Dec 15, 2002
- 29,264
- 8,693
Timmy
Registered User
- Feb 2, 2005
- 10,691
- 26
Feel free to start up your own forum or website decrying various markets, league management, various owners and fanbases, or whoever else has your goat.
This is a private website, is not a government branch, and freedom of speech is not applicable here.
Otherwise, I'd be able to say that Morrison played like a ***** tonight.
If the owners and/or management of these forums have decided that they don't want a certain segment of their members to be continually harrassed and insulted, then they're allowed to decree that this will no longer be tolerated here. It will, I am certain, be tolerated or even welcomed on other forums, and therefore your freedom of speech is not quite being impinged upon to the same degree as Mr. Bradbury's characters were.
xDerekRx
Registered User
Sadly what these Canadian fans dont understand is no matter how poor and ignorant towards hockey a southern market is, the team will still make more money in that market (ie carolina, phoenix) so I guess that settles that right there.
But in all honesty I think the NHL needs to look at northern US cities to grow the game in. I dont think small canadian scities are the answers. Try Seattle, Milwuakee, Portland etc.
But in all honesty I think the NHL needs to look at northern US cities to grow the game in. I dont think small canadian scities are the answers. Try Seattle, Milwuakee, Portland etc.
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