All-time prospect draft

[seventieslord]

Suppose all the top prospects of the entry draft era were suddenly available in the same year. But you don't have a crystal ball. You only have what you've seen of their pre-draft career and the hype associated with them. What would the first round look like?

Basically I'm saying to draft an all-time first round with no consideration to how the players turned out.

Without putting TOO much thought into it, here is a stab at it:

1. Mario Lemieux
2. Guy Lafleur
3. Eric Lindros
4. Sidney Crosby
5. Connor McDavid
6. John Tavares
7. Gilbert Perreault
8. Auston Matthews
9. Denis Potvin
10. Marcel Dionne

Alexandre Daigle
Alexis Lafreniere
Jason Spezza
Nathan MacKinnon
Steven Stamkos
Rasmus Dahlin
Jack Eichel
Brian Bellows
Dale McCourt
Patrik Laine

Pierre Turgeon
Joe Thornton
Patrick Kane
Ilya Kovalchuk
Mats Sundin
Mike Modano
Evgeni Malkin
Jay Bouwmeester
Taylor Hall
Tyler Seguin

Aaron Ekblad
Vincent Lecavalier

HM: Victor Hedman

Click to read more...

 

[Habsfan18]

I honestly have to say from everything I have read on specific timeframes in history - countless back issues of THN, newspaper articles, books, magazines etc..the one name that sticks out above all of the others is Eric Lindros.

I think Mario was a better player leading into his draft. But the hype for Eric Lindros - warranted or not - was unlike anything there had ever been before, or since. He was marketed by hockey pundits as having traits of Howe, Gretzky, Lemieux and Messier.

So on a pure hype level, I don’t personally see anyone above Lindros from 89-92.

My top 5 would be:

1. Lindros
2. Lemieux
3. Crosby
4. Lafleur
5. McDavid

I’d also have Kovalchuk a bit higher. I can recall opinions of scouts and analysts saying that he could be the best Russian EVER, and that he was “certainly” the best prospect since Lindros.

Also, Ovechkin seems to be missing from your list? Not sure if that was intentional. The Kovalchuk as the potential “best Russian ever” idea was short lived, as just a few years later Ovechkin was called a better prospect than Kovy was in his draft year.

The hype for Brian Bellows in the year leading into his draft was unreal. He was being compared to Gretzky for crying out loud. Poor kid. He was never going to be that.

 

[seventieslord]

Yes, I actually meant to put Ovechkin in there right around Eichel and Bellows, but neglected to.

 

[Habsfan18]

And although not a typical “big name” on these kind of lists, Pat Price was heavily hyped and regarded in 1973 and 1974. He was seen as a “can’t miss” superstar, in the same mold as a Bobby Orr and Denis Potvin. Unreal skills. To this day he would still be on my D list for top “hyped prospects”.

He surely would have been drafted 1st overall in the ‘74 NHL draft by the Caps, but had an agreement in place to play for Vancouver in the WHA where he was drafted 1st overall in their draft. The Caps offer was believed to be 500k under Vancouver’s. I know that league was just throwing money around, but he was so highly regarded that he signed a 1.3 million dollar contract at 18 years of age. Individual bonuses could have put the deal as high as 1.5 million. At the time, the deal had the potential to make Price the "highest paid player in hockey history" beating out Brad Park, who was believed to be the wealthiest skater in the NHL at the time.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

how do we count soviet prospects?

 

[Michael Farkas]

I don't know if I can order them because I'm going entirely from memory (fast too) and not looking back at my notes...this is my shortlist, in order of year, but no other order than that...

Lecavalier
Gaborik
Spezza
Kovalchuk
Chistov
Bouwmeester
Lehtonen
Fleury
Ovechkin
Malkin
Crosby
Kessel
Doughty
Hedman
Tavares
Hall
Seguin
Skinner
Huberdeau
MacKinnon
Drouin
Ekblad (as a D-1 more than any other time)
Ehlers
McDavid
Eichel
Marner
Makar
Dahlin
Lafreniere

I remember a couple of goalies that I was real high on...Mathieu Garon, Rick DiPietro I guess should have been there, I think Hannu Toivonen (that could have been D+1)...I was a nut for Mikko Koivu prior to his draft, I bought a Team Finland jersey of his before he was in the NHL, I'm not sure he belongs here necessarily for me or not...it's probably recency bias, but I have a ton of time for the German that Ottawa picked at 3 or where ever...he was the only player I might have been convinced to look at at 1 all year...

Just looking at your list...I had Hedman over Tavares in their draft year, but only because I over-scouted Tavares and started to nitpick him...I mean, they were neck and neck for me, but I recall being with Hedman, thinking he was unreal...Matthews turned out far better than I expected to be honest, he didn't have a lot of hype for me coming in...Kane didn't have a lot of hype for me either, as silly as that is in retrospect...

Interesting...I might circle back here if I can find some old notes...

 

[BenchBrawl]

Suppose all the top prospects of the entry draft era were suddenly available in the same year. But you don't have a crystal ball. You only have what you've seen of their pre-draft career and the hype associated with them. What would the first round look like?

Basically I'm saying to draft an all-time first round with no consideration to how the players turned out.

Without putting TOO much thought into it, here is a stab at it:

1. Mario Lemieux
2. Guy Lafleur
3. Eric Lindros
4. Sidney Crosby
5. Connor McDavid
6. John Tavares
7. Gilbert Perreault
8. Auston Matthews
9. Denis Potvin
10. Marcel Dionne

Alexandre Daigle
Alexis Lafreniere
Jason Spezza
Nathan MacKinnon
Steven Stamkos
Rasmus Dahlin
Jack Eichel
Brian Bellows
Dale McCourt
Patrik Laine

Pierre Turgeon
Joe Thornton
Patrick Kane
Ilya Kovalchuk
Mats Sundin
Mike Modano
Evgeni Malkin
Jay Bouwmeester
Taylor Hall
Tyler Seguin

Aaron Ekblad
Vincent Lecavalier

HM: Victor Hedman

Great idea. Wish we could research this topic more in depth one day. Maybe even a Project idea?

My Top 10

1. Mario Lemieux
2. Jean Béliveau
3. Eric Lindros
4. Sidney Crosby
5. Guy Lafleur
6. Connor McDavid
7. Gilbert Perreault
8. Marcel Dionne
9. Alex Ovechkin
10. Denis Potvin

I added Jean Béliveau, because I'm sure about him among pre-draft era prospects, but it'd be interesting to dig into all such pre-draft era prospects one day. Maybe Orr, Howe, Gretzky, Richard and all the rest deserve to be in the Top 10, but I reserve judgement.

 

[Habsfan18]

I guess I’ll add my full top 10, and may stretch it out to a top 20 this weekend.

I won’t count Beliveau, who would slot in at 6 for me.

1. Lindros
2. Lemieux
3. Crosby
4. Lafleur
5. McDavid
6. Perreault
7. Potvin
8. Ovechkin
9. Dionne
10. Tavares

 

[Habsfan18]

Wish we could research this topic more in depth one day. Maybe even a Project idea?

Yes. So much yes.

 

[BenchBrawl]

To be honest, I don't know how to rank Ovechkin, Dionne, Perreault and Potvin. Throw the names in a hat and pick.

 

[Habsfan18]

My D rankings:

1. Potvin
2. Dahlin
3. Price
4. Hedman
5. Bouwmeester
6. Ekblad
7. Pronger
8. Berard
9. Kluzak
10. Jovanovski

Bryan Fogarty gets consideration as well, but he had his issues. Drew Doughty, Erik Johnson and Barry Beck would be in the next tier. Gary Nylund is probably in that mix as well.

 

[Habsfan18]

It may not seem like a big deal, and it wouldn’t really mean anything nowadays..but Lindros had actually made the cover of THN - at age 16, in 1989. Which was a huge deal at the time. I know people have their opinions on what THN has become, but back then it was literally regarded as the “Bible of Hockey.” He was 15 and 16 and already being discussed in the pages of THN as a cover story subject, no less. Even Mario didn’t have that level of mainstream hype and publicity. So in those days, that was a testament to just how highly regarded he was as a future superstar.

Nobody else was talked about on the same level in the years leading up to his NHL debut quite like Eric Lindros. By mainstream media, NHL executives, scouts, etc..I don’t think it will ever be replicated either. I think it was also a sign of the times.

And he was was again at 17:

 

[Johnny Engine]

I added Jean Béliveau, because I'm sure about him among pre-draft era prospects, but it'd be interesting to dig into all such pre-draft era prospects one day. Maybe Orr, Howe, Gretzky, Richard and all the rest deserve to be in the Top 10, but I reserve judgement.

I won’t count Beliveau, who would slot in at 6 for me.

If anything, a draft-era list and a sponsorship era list make sense. Gretzky was surely the most hyped draft era prospect (though maybe you'd consider taking Mario or Lindros instead if you're worried about his size), whether he ended up in a draft or not. I'm realizing now that I've never given any thought to whether people anticipated where Gretzky might go in a draft, several years in advance of him going down the WHA path.

My thinking is that Beliveau, then Orr, then maybe Mahovlich head up the sponsorship era list. I don't have a good sense of how media, or people in the industry communicated about young hockey players before Beliveau.

 

[Habsfan18]

Here are some Eric Lindros clippings from 1989 and 1990. I saved them so you guys can read them for free:

Click on the links, then on the article. It will allow you to zoom in and read.

1989: “Lindros turning more heads than Gretzky did at age 16”

Lindros89 - Newspapers.com

————————————————

1990: “99 + 66 + ability to hit = Lindros”

Lindros90(2) - Newspapers.com

————————————————

1990: “Lindros, who turned 17 last Wednesday has scouts and NHL general managers drooling at his potential. He is already being spoken of in the same breath as Gretzky and Lemieux.”

Lindros90 - Newspapers.com

————————————————

1990: “He’s likely to become the new standard of comparison because of his incredible size, speed and toughness. He’ll be mentioned in the same breath as Gretzky and Lemieux.”

Lindros90(3) - Newspapers.com

 

[buffalowing88]

Suppose all the top prospects of the entry draft era were suddenly available in the same year. But you don't have a crystal ball. You only have what you've seen of their pre-draft career and the hype associated with them. What would the first round look like?

Basically I'm saying to draft an all-time first round with no consideration to how the players turned out.

Without putting TOO much thought into it, here is a stab at it:

1. Mario Lemieux
2. Guy Lafleur
3. Eric Lindros
4. Sidney Crosby
5. Connor McDavid
6. John Tavares
7. Gilbert Perreault
8. Auston Matthews
9. Denis Potvin
10. Marcel Dionne

Alexandre Daigle
Alexis Lafreniere
Jason Spezza
Nathan MacKinnon
Steven Stamkos
Rasmus Dahlin
Jack Eichel
Brian Bellows
Dale McCourt
Patrik Laine

Pierre Turgeon
Joe Thornton
Patrick Kane
Ilya Kovalchuk
Mats Sundin
Mike Modano
Evgeni Malkin
Jay Bouwmeester
Taylor Hall
Tyler Seguin

Aaron Ekblad
Vincent Lecavalier

HM: Victor Hedman

Pretty much agree with your list but I honestly don't remember Matthews being that hyped. He was obviously well-regarded, but I would put Daigle and Spezza above him personally. I don't know enough about prospect ratings prior to 1990 but it's interesting to see how much attention was given to Lemieux. I would have assumed that Lindros was the definitive number one but, again, I am pretty clueless to this stuff before the 90s.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Suppose all the top prospects of the entry draft era were suddenly available in the same year. But you don't have a crystal ball. You only have what you've seen of their pre-draft career and the hype associated with them. What would the first round look like?

Basically I'm saying to draft an all-time first round with no consideration to how the players turned out.

Without putting TOO much thought into it, here is a stab at it:

1. Mario Lemieux
2. Guy Lafleur
3. Eric Lindros
4. Sidney Crosby
5. Connor McDavid
6. John Tavares
7. Gilbert Perreault
8. Auston Matthews
9. Denis Potvin
10. Marcel Dionne

Alexandre Daigle
Alexis Lafreniere
Jason Spezza
Nathan MacKinnon
Steven Stamkos
Rasmus Dahlin
Jack Eichel
Brian Bellows
Dale McCourt
Patrik Laine

Pierre Turgeon
Joe Thornton
Patrick Kane
Ilya Kovalchuk
Mats Sundin
Mike Modano
Evgeni Malkin
Jay Bouwmeester
Taylor Hall
Tyler Seguin

Aaron Ekblad
Vincent Lecavalier

HM: Victor Hedman

Great idea for a topic. Am I mis-remembering things, or is Lecavalier too low? There was a ton of hype surrounding but I can't recall if it was all pre-draft.

 

[seventieslord]

Great idea for a topic. Am I mis-remembering things, or is Lecavalier too low? There was a ton of hype surrounding but I can't recall if it was all pre-draft.

At the time I remember thinking that it felt like he had somewhat less fanfare than Thornton the year before.

Of course, there was one guy who REALLY hyped him, but I guess that was after the draft.

 

[seventieslord]

I honestly have to say from everything I have read on specific timeframes in history - countless back issues of THN, newspaper articles, books, magazines etc..the one name that sticks out above all of the others is Eric Lindros.

I think Mario was a better player leading into his draft. But the hype for Eric Lindros - warranted or not - was unlike anything there had ever been before, or since. He was marketed by hockey pundits as having traits of Howe, Gretzky, Lemieux and Messier.

I mean, maybe? But I am sure I remember it being said a lot, that he was "the best prospect since Lemieux" or something like that, which kinda precludes him ever being a bigger prospect than Lemieux.

You're right about Price. I remember reading a lot about his hype. This entire list is made up of players actually drafted 1st or 2nd overall by NHL teams (plus J-Bo who went 3rd) - Price would be the exception. But he deserves a spot in this list.

#2 picks who made my list: Dionne, Spezza, Bellows, Laine, Eichel, Malkin, Seguin, Hedman.

 

[MadLuke]

Great idea for a topic. Am I mis-remembering things, or is Lecavalier too low? There was a ton of hype surrounding but I can't recall if it was all pre-draft.

That was my first reaction, but being from eastern Québec the type of hype around him was local, that said when those Jordan of Hockey headline came out I thought they were absolutely ridiculous.

If we go purely pre-draft, 3rd pick like Bouwmeester above him do feel wrong, Lecavalier year was weak but Bouwmeester got pick after Nash/Lehtonen, both that do not even appear on the honorable mention off that list.

 

[57special]

Part of the noise around Lindros was because of his parents.

 

[seventieslord]

That was my first reaction, but being from eastern Québec the type of hype around him was local, that said when those Jordan of Hockey headline came out I thought they were absolutely ridiculous.

If we go purely pre-draft, 3rd pick like Bouwmeester above him do feel wrong, Lecavalier year was weak but Bouwmeester got pick after Nash/Lehtonen, both that do not even appear on the honorable mention off that list.

It was a unique year. Bouwmeester was hyped for over two years before he was drafted. He and Spezza were made out to be potentially generational. I also listed Spezza and Bellows over their years' #1s. In those few cases, what the one team drafting first overall thought/needed wasn't reflective of the general hype.

 

[DropTheGloves]

Interesting thread. Dale Hawerchuk would be a high pick for me, the “pre-draft career” criteria being key:

-Broke Guy Lafleur’s single-game scoring record at the Quebec International Pee-Wee Tournament, netting all eight goals for Oshawa in the final while leading them to victory.

-Followed up by then carrying Oshawa to the 1979 Ontario Metro Jr. B championship as a 15 year-old.

-Earned ROTY in the QMJHL, was named playoff MVP, and won a Memorial Cup in his first year with Cornwall in 1979-80.

-Repeated as Mem Cup champ (+ was tournament MVP) as a sophomore, AND won Canadian Major Junior POTY along with QMJHL MVP in 80-81.

-Led Canada in scoring at the 1981 WJC and finishing tied for first in the entire tourney with nine points (while playing three less games than the leader!)

You’re talking one of the great all-time amateur trophy cases- basically every award you can win provincially and nationally while also starring on the international stage. The only blemish is that he/Canada didn’t medal at the World Juniors in ‘81. Otherwise, he did it all, and was the best player at every level.

 

[Habsfan18]

I mean, maybe? But I am sure I remember it being said a lot, that he was "the best prospect since Lemieux" or something like that, which kinda precludes him ever being a bigger prospect than Lemieux.

I think players can be ranked separately on these lists if we allow them to fall under separate categories. I guess it depends how we look at it.

- Best players at the time of the draft
- Most hyped and talked up players leading into their draft

For me, those two lists would look different. Not sure how much different, but they wouldn’t be identical that’s for sure.

Like I said before, it was also a sign of the times, but the level of hype and expectations (to be a superstar) surrounding Eric Lindros by the mainstream media and those involved in the hockey community was unlike anything the game had ever seen before. Everything sort of fell into place for that to happen, and like someone else stated, his parents played a role in that as well.

But the way I view a question like this: Because of that total physical package that Lindros presented, with a high skill level thrown in and and ability to dominate a game with those tools..for me it presented an unmatched level of hype for a player yet to play a professional game. As ridiculous as it sounds, and again the mainstream growth of the game during the late 80’s and early 90’s plays a part, even Gretzky wasn’t talked up as much as Lindros was before entering the league.

I don’t see a single NHL executive passing up 17 year old Eric Lindros - with the overall package and potential tools - for anyone else. He was too enticing. For me there is no doubt ‘91 Lindros gets drafted before ‘84 Lemieux for that reason, even if Mario was the better player.

You would be crazy to draft anyone over Lindros without a crystal ball, IMO. Lemieux may have been the best prospect of all-time, but Lindros still goes before him because of the hype, publicity, and overall package in my eyes.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

My memory is of Malkin being considered a better prospect than than Kane, but he lost some “hype” because it was known ahead of time that he would stay in Russia and not come directly to the NHL.

The Hawks were the 2nd worst team that year but lost out in the lottery and picked 3rd, so that could be a factor in my memory.

I remember Kane being considered the clear #1 pick in his draft year, but I always thought that was caveated with it not being considered a strong year, and some had concerns over his size. I did not get a “can’t miss” feeling.

To be fair, I don’t/didn’t follow the Canadian Junior leagues, so there will certainly be others who can give better info than me. The only reason I know what I do on these two is because of the effects on the Hawks.

 

[BenchBrawl]

My memory is of Malkin being considered a better prospect than than Kane, but he lost some “hype” because it was known ahead of time that he would stay in Russia and not come directly to the NHL.

The Hawks were the 2nd worst team that year but lost out in the lottery and picked 3rd, so that could be a factor in my memory.

I remember Kane being considered the clear #1 pick in his draft year, but I always thought that was caveated with it not being considered a strong year, and some had concerns over his size. I did not get a “can’t miss” feeling.

To be fair, I don’t/didn’t follow the Canadian Junior leagues, so there will certainly be others who can give better info than me. The only reason I know what I do on these two is because of the effects on the Hawks.

I remember vividly watching a few videos of Malkin as a prospect, and it was crystal clear that this dude was more talented than a normal 1st overall. The "stay in Russia" factor was a real concern at the time.

He had all the skills, was a natural, and had size. I remember campaigning for him to be better than Ovechkin, though my sample size was limited.

Patrick Kane exceeded his draft expectations, by far.