All Purpose Trade / Roster Building Thread III - the thread where everyone signs somewhere else

[Chrispy]

How does getting a 1st for taking Tyler Johnson's contract "dramatically weaken" Tampa?

It doesn’t in the immediate term. It might 2-3 years from now but by then Carolina will have hard cap decisions to make of their own.

Doesn’t mean much to me; I suspect someone will “beat” the offer of taking a first and Tampa will get rid of Johnson for less then that.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

How does getting a 1st for taking Tyler Johnson's contract "dramatically weaken" Tampa? If anything, it helps them because it allows them to keep a superior player (Gourde, Killorn, Palat etc.).

Asset pillaging is the bigger long-term loss for Tampa, at least IMO, than losing a guy like Palat, who only has a year left.

 

[mikeyfan]

Myself, I’d rather trade Foegele, Geekie, our 1st and St. Louis’s 7th to the Blues for Tarasenko and Dunn. And before you say that’s too much the Canes took a flyer on Trocheck and look what that did. Now , Tarasenko is saying his private doctor has corrected the garbage the Blues Doctors made. It’s not that hard to have our doctors verify the procedure if the patient agrees.

 

[bleedgreen]

Tampa has other guys that could compete for that third line, so they will survive the TJ loss. If we didnt have Staal as a permanent fixture TJ could add something to what we have....but we know Staal isnt going anywhere.

 

[bleedgreen]

Yes, I know that we're competing. I also think it's smart to pursue moves that dramatically weaken Tampa Bay. What better way to do it than to pry first round picks from them and still get a decent player for your troubles, especially if said player is not going to affect the Aho/Pesce/Turbo situation? Note that I'm well aware that my opinions are on an island, but logically, I'd rather have TJ and a shiny 2022 1st than Foegele/McGinn/Marty, especially because Foegele apparently WANTS a trade and a top-6 spot.

Does he really want a trade or does he just know we wont pay him and this is the way to a better career? I hardly believe he WANTS to leave us. We're drawing a hard line for him, its likely a cheap one that puts him in a corner to decide what his career will be.

 

[spockBokk]

Myself, I’d rather trade Foegele, Geekie, our 1st and St. Louis’s 7th to the Blues for Tarasenko and Dunn. And before you say that’s too much the Canes took a flyer on Trocheck and look what that did. Now , Tarasenko is saying his private doctor has corrected the garbage the Blues Doctors made. It’s not that hard to have our doctors verify the procedure if the patient agrees.

There’s this thing called the salary cap…

You’re advocating for CAR to take on 7.5M ($9.5M in real cash this year) in Tarasenko and likely at least $3M for Dunn and only offsetting that with Foegele’s $2M and Geekie’s <$1M.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

The only way I help TB with Johnson is if they pay us a 1st and they pay an asset that helps move Gardiner.

either Nino or Skjei is taken by Seattle. Then we are +4 million in cap space with a RH shot to play with Staal and an extra 1st.

 

[GoldiFox]

Tyler Johnson is a bad cap dump. If the Canes pick him up to obtain a pick then it will be near impossible to be better on the ice than last year. I don't see Dundon going that route at all. You are about to run your 3-4 year Cup race and you want to kick that off by shooting yourself in the foot with the starting pistol?

And I think it will cost Tampa two firsts to move Johnson. Or the equivalent. I'd want one first for terrible year of that deal if I were Francis.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Tyler Johnson is a bad cap dump. If the Canes pick him up to obtain a pick then it will be near impossible to be better on the ice than last year. I don't see Dundon going that route at all. You are about to run your 3-4 year Cup race and you want to kick that off by shooting yourself in the foot with the starting pistol?

And I think it will cost Tampa two firsts to move Johnson. Or the equivalent. I'd want one first for terrible year of that deal if I were Francis.

Calling Johnson a bad cap dump is an exaggeration. He's still a reasonably useful player that can chip in offensively and can play the center position well. And it wouldn't be "impossible" to make the club better than last year. There's 30 million in cap to play around with, and considering the rates that they are willing to pay Dougie/Svech/Ned/backups, there should be plenty of space to use that to improve both the present and long-term future. Johnson alone is a significant upgrade to the bottom-six over Foegele/McGinn/Martinook for the next three seasons. And to can get a 1st rounder on top of that? Heck yes it would be a good move.

 

[mikeyfan]

There’s this thing called the salary cap…

You’re advocating for CAR to take on 7.5M ($9.5M in real cash this year) in Tarasenko and likely at least $3M for Dunn and only offsetting that with Foegele’s $2M and Geekie’s <$1M.

And we can say goodbye to Hamilton, buyout Gardiner , and still have money to sign Svech, making our team stronger than it was last season

 

[GoldiFox]

Calling Johnson a bad cap dump is an exaggeration. He's still a reasonably useful player that can chip in offensively and can play the center position well. And it wouldn't be "impossible" to make the club better than last year. There's 30 million in cap to play around with, and considering the rates that they are willing to pay Dougie/Svech/Ned/backups, there should be plenty of space to use that to improve both the present and long-term future. Johnson alone is a significant upgrade to the bottom-six over Foegele/McGinn/Martinook for the next three seasons. And to can get a 1st rounder on top of that? Heck yes it would be a good move.

One of the worst contracts in the league. Only slightly better than Neal or Lucic. It may be worse because it is 3 more years.

Hamilton + Svechnikov + TJ + Ned + backup would be $25+ million. Then you need to replace the bottom-6ers leaving. That is the entire $30 million and the team goes into next year with the exact same group minus Foegele/McGinn/Martinook/Paquette and plus Tyler Johnson. Zero roster improvement with less depth.

All for a very late 1st in 2022? No thanks.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

One of the worst contracts in the league. Only slightly better than Neal or Lucic. It may be worse because it is 3 more years.

Hamilton + Svechnikov + TJ + Ned + backup would be $25+ million. Then you need to replace the bottom-6ers leaving. That is the entire $30 million and the team goes into next year with the exact same group minus Foegele/McGinn/Martinook/Paquette and plus Tyler Johnson. Zero roster improvement with less depth.

All for a very late 1st in 2022? No thanks.

Johnson's deal is moderately bad, but not radioactively so like Neal's, Lucic's, or Ladd's. I have Lorentz and Geekie both penned in for cheap to replace the bottom-6, and TBH, I see Lorentz/Johnson/Geekie as an upgrade over the current bottom-6. Bean and Hakanpaa should also be relatively cheap.

 

[spockBokk]

And we can say goodbye to Hamilton, buyout Gardiner , and still have money to sign Svech, making our team stronger than it was last season

Saying goodbye to Hamilton and using the cap space that should be used in either re-signing him or a replacement for him on a winger who hasn’t played more than 34 games over the past 2 seasons would be the exact opposite of “making the team better”

 

[Anton Babchuk]

One of the worst contracts in the league. Only slightly better than Neal or Lucic. It may be worse because it is 3 more years.

Hamilton + Svechnikov + TJ + Ned + backup would be $25+ million. Then you need to replace the bottom-6ers leaving. That is the entire $30 million and the team goes into next year with the exact same group minus Foegele/McGinn/Martinook/Paquette and plus Tyler Johnson. Zero roster improvement with less depth.

All for a very late 1st in 2022? No thanks.

and you also need to give a big raise to necas after this season. this team is in no position to take on other team's cap dumps.

a lot of the proposals here as of late make no sense. i don't think people truly understand how much cap trouble this team is going to be in very soon. we can't afford to be taking back big contracts that don't expire after this season unless they are for a defenseman to replace dougie.

tarasenko is a big fat no. do people really think there's been no long term damage to his shoulder with *multiple* botched surgeries, let alone the shoulder injury to begin with? he's played 34 games over the last two seasons and people want to devote 7.5m towards the cap when the team already has cap problems. the most likely result of a tarasenko trade is that he puts up like 17 goals per season while missing 60 games total and then peaces out. why do people want him. because he's a big name? who cares. let's trade for loui eriksson as well, he was good a long time ago. 34 games played over the last two seasons with wrecked shoulder = no.

 

[hblueridgegal]

On the Hot Stove today, they were speculating that the Canes would be an ideal landing spot for Fleury's swan song. Stating that it would create an ideal tandem with Ned..that Pittsburg can't afford him and Lehner seems to be the preferred choice for DeBoer.

Could raise the PR profile as well.

 

[mikeyfan]

Saying goodbye to Hamilton and using the cap space that should be used in either re-signing him or a replacement for him on a winger who hasn’t played more than 34 games over the past 2 seasons would be the exact opposite of “making the team better”

I’d take my chance on an elite player like Tarasenko rather than do nothing to improve the team

 

[MinJaBen]

I wonder if the front office would take a chance on Evander Kane? It appears the Sharks want to move him. Maybe Foegele and Gardiner? He’d bring goal scoring and some grit to the top six

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

I wonder if the front office would take a chance on Evander Kane? It appears the Sharks want to move him. Maybe Foegele and Gardiner? He’d bring goal scoring and some grit to the top six

Like the player, don’t like the person. At least, the way he appears from what I’ve seen of him. Doesn’t seem like someone Rod would like, either.

 

[Chrispy]

Does he really want a trade or does he just know we wont pay him and this is the way to a better career? I hardly believe he WANTS to leave us. We're drawing a hard line for him, its likely a cheap one that puts him in a corner to decide what his career will be.

The reports have been as much about Foegele wanting an increased role as $$.

There isn’t much negotiating space Foegele has as an RFA. He likely wants a short contract to lead to UFA, but also a chance to prove he belongs in a larger role before he hits UFA.

I don’t see this as a negotiating issue; this appears to be more about wanting to move up in the lineup and Carolina not having a spot to do that.

 

[MinJaBen]

Like the player, don’t like the person. At least, the way he appears from what I’ve seen of him. Doesn’t seem like someone Rod would like, either.

I agree. But isn’t there a quote out there from Dundon something about not caring too much about all that stuff if they can play? The last three seasons he’s scored at 30 goal pace over a full 82 game season. And he’s got an edge, too, which wouldn’t hurt. And he’s probably a depressed asset given his history and financials. Seems like right up our alley.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I’d take my chance on an elite player like Tarasenko rather than do nothing to improve the team

You can be 100% sure that the front office will do something to try to improve the team.

Now, they might choose to do things that you/we wouldn't choose to do, but that's why they're professionals, and you/we are message board schlubs.

 

[A Star is Burns]

I'm not liking the majority of the suggestions here.

Kane is the best player, but given his financial situation, I worry about where his head will be at for the next 4 years.

Johnson is not worth pursuing even with assets coming our way

Fleury would be fine, but much like last year, you'd need someone to eat at least half along the way. It's unlikely. And you can be fairly certain last year was the best year he'll ever have.

I've said I get the appeal of gambling on Tarasenko, but it would be a large ass gamble.

Granted, as mentioned above, I'll leave it all to our pros to determine what makes the most sense. They have a pretty solid track record to this point.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

You can be 100% sure that the front office will do something to try to improve the team.

Now, they might choose to do things that you/we wouldn't choose to do, but that's why they're professionals, and you/we are message board schlubs.

Exactly. You can see an aspect of my posting genius, however. The entire message board may think of me as a crazy person, and the front office likely does, too. My ideas are, however, without a doubt my own, and no one can take that away from me. Mostly.

 

[A Star is Burns]

Exactly. You can see an aspect of my posting genius, however. The entire message board may think of me as a crazy person, and the front office likely does, too. My ideas are, however, without a doubt my own, and no one can take that away from me. Mostly.

You also like to throw pretty much every idea against the wall. Gotta be right on a few, right?!! At least you keep the discussions going, nuts or not.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

You also like to throw pretty much every idea against the wall. Gotta be right on a few, right?!! At least you keep the discussions going, nuts or not.

Hey, it's not that much different from how many teams drafted players 20-30 years ago! Don't knock it if you haven't tried it!